Why all JRPGs start the same way?

[DraQ]

Anachronox?

It begins with the protagonist getting beaten by a midget mobster and thrown out of a window, which is different too.

It's also an awesome game and the best PC-exclusive, western JRPG
(did u see wat i did their?)

Fix'd. We dun need ur subtle on teh trolldex bro.

 

[DriacKin]

Why do all games start the same?
They always show me some boring main menu screen when I start the program.

FUCK THIS SHIT. WE NEED SOME INNOVASHUN. NOW.

 

[FeelTheRads]

People in this thread suck at sarcasm.

Anachronox?

That one is so good it pains me to call it a JRPG.

But fine. That's one I played and it didn't start with some woman telling me to "wake up, sleepy head!"

Planescape starts on a slab with TNO waking up.

Very interesting!

 

[DraQ]

People in this thread suck at sarcasm.

Anachronox?

That one is so good it pains me to call it a JRPG.

I enjoy using it to show that men of the west do much better JPGs than wapanese, then watching the butthurt bloom.

 

[Pliskin]

This is obviously a fishing attempt to test the codex's hivemind on jrpg knowledge.

Updated my Kodex-secret-weeaboo.txt

 

[Clockwork Knight]

People in this thread suck at sarcasm.

Anachronox?

That one is so good it pains me to call it a JRPG.

But fine. That's one I played and it didn't start with some woman telling me to "wake up, sleepy head!"

Planescape starts on a slab with TNO waking up.

Very interesting!

You also have a white flying mascot like thing with a sharp tongue and a penchant for getting into trouble

 

[RottingNaziSurfer]

What retard considers PST to be a JRPG?

The same sort of retard that considers Mass Effect a CRPG.

 

[Zeus]

I can't take the "Planescape: Torment is a JRPG" people seriously until they start to admit it works both ways.

Planescape: Torment

On the surface, this looks nothing like a JRPG. It has the same grim, Western fantasy look as Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. The pre-rendered cast of characters could have walked right out of Diablo II and no one would have noticed.

If Planescape: Torment isn't considered a JRPG because of its visual design, then it must be because of its game design: the pre-made hero, who befriends pre-made player-characters, each of whom are locked into a single weapon type, etc., etc.

Well, okay then.

This is Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard.

On the surface, it looks nothing like a WRPG. It has the same cheerful, Manga fantasy look as Star Ocean or Chrono Trigger. The hand-drawn Anime characters could have walked right out of an episode of Naruto and no one would have noticed.

The game design, however, is a different story. Etrian Odyssey is a hardcore dungeon crawl; players not weaned on Wizardry or Might & Magic games are going to be out of their element. It offers no modern conveniences; no auto map--in fact, it expects the player to map out the dungeon on their own, square by bloody square.

I'm not about to call P:T a JRPG, or EO a WRPG, for numerous reasons I won't list here. But if you're going to insist that while P:T looks Western, major differences in game design philosophy somehow grant it foreign status, then you have to do the same with Etrian Odyssey and give it Western citizenship.

 

[Sceptic]

You best be trolling. What retard considers PST to be a JRPG?

I was only half-trolling actually. Yes, I was trolling because I do agree that calling PST a JRPG is pretty retarded. No, I was not trolling because that's precisely what an entire thread lead into some time last year (here on the prestigious Codex no less). Someone else might remember dates or have a handy link to the thread. And before you ask, no, some of those arguing that it is in fact a JRPG were not trolling, they were deadly serious.

That one is so good it pains me to call it a JRPG.

I enjoy using it to show that men of the west do much better JPGs than wapanese, then watching the butthurt bloom.

Yeah that's pretty much what I was driving at (that and the fact it's the only PC-only western JRPG that I know of). Anachronox is the perfect example that a game can be great irrespective of its genre, roots or what influenced it (Tom Hall openly admits he was trying to make a western Final Fantasy).

The game design, however, is a different story. Etrian Odyssey is a hardcore dungeon crawl; players not weaned on Wizardry or Might & Magic games are going to be out of their element. It offers no modern conveniences; no auto map--in fact, it expects the player to map out the dungeon on their own, square by bloody square.

While I'm not about to call P:T a JRPG, or EO a WRPG, for numerous reasons I won't list here, if you're going to insist that while P:T looks Western, major differences in game design philosophy somehow grant it foreign status, then you have to do the same with Etrian Odyssey and give it Western citizenship.

I haven't played Etrian Odyssey and frankly have no interest in doing so, but I think you have a point. And people tend to forget the JRPG originated as Ultima/Wizardry/M&M clones before what we now consider the typical trappings of JRPGs (the emo stuff, endless cutscenes, extremely linear play, etc) became standard. Unsurprisingly a JRPG that sheds these trappings has a good chance of reverting back to being such a clone, as this one seems to be from your description.

 

[Zeus]

I haven't played Etrian Odyssey and frankly have no interest in doing so, but I think you have a point. And people tend to forget the JRPG originated as Ultima/Wizardry/M&M clones before what we now consider the typical trappings of JRPGs (the emo stuff, endless cutscenes, extremely linear play, etc) became standard. Unsurprisingly a JRPG that sheds these trappings has a good chance of reverting back to being such a clone, as this one seems to be from your description.

Exactly. A lot of the original JRPGs had wire-frame first-person dungeons (Phantasy Star), before they whittled down some of the more hardcore aspects in favor of a more user-friendly constant overhead perspective (Final Fantasy).

Most people are surprised to learn that Japan enjoys a much healthier first-person dungeon crawl scene than the West, where the genre is mostly limitedto indie games. While Western publishers abandoned the genre sometime around Arx Fatalis, Japanese companies continue to publish Wizardry clones like Dark Spire on the regular.

Hell, they still make Wizardry games over there. The characters look anime, but that doesn't make the dungeons any less sprawling or the difficulty any less challenging.

 

[Sceptic]

They also remade Wizardry 1-5 at some point in the late 90s. The remakes were great because they had a lot of user-friendly stuff like better graphics, sound, automap, reduced difficulty... except all this stuff is optional check boxes. Tick them all off and you're playing the same unforgiving Wizardry we all know and love.

 

[Melcar]

So can we now agree that the Japanese are better?

 

[laclongquan]

In a return to topic: I wont discuss, I wont argue, i will talk about facts.

FF7 start with an eco-terrorism attack (or industrial-sabotage, depend on your POV).
FF8 start with going to class (fuck the training fight, that's teh vidya). Then a test session in the field.
FF9 start with a theatre performance, then a kidnapping.
FF10 start with a ball.

I assume FF series is the quintessence of jRPG, correct?

 

[Zeus]

Yeah, and Final Fantasy 4 (originally FF2) begins with an airship raid. Shortly thereafter the hero, Cecil, unknowingly delivers a bomb to a peaceful city of political dissidents. So no, all JRPGs do not begin the same. Looking back, a lot of them actually begin with terrorism. I hear FFXIII does too. O_o

The whole "waking up" thing was a big cliche for a while; you still see it from time to time, but it's by no means how every game begins. Sort of like the hero's happy little village burning down, which somehow became a cliche AFTER Square inverted the trope with Cecil's explosive gift, back in FF2.

Dragon Quest VII had a pretty sweet beginning. It jumped right into the story long after it had began, with the hero serving as bodyguard to an accursed king (turned into a sort of Yoda character) and his princess daughter (turned into a horse, now pulling the caravan). You didn't have to follow the hero through his childhood or jr. high or anything, it just started like a Hercules episode, with the heavier plot details (Kill The Foozle!) falling in afterwads.

 

[Lockkaliber]

This thread reminded me about a meme that went something like this "what's so special about video games, you push button and something happen on screen lol".

Other than that, it should't come as a surprise to anyone at this point, that jRPGs are pretty prone to clichés.

 

[Zeus]

This thread reminded me about a meme that went something like this "what's so special about video games, you push button and something happen on screen lol".

Hah, nice.

Other than that, it should't come as a surprise to anyone at this point, that jRPGs are pretty prone to clichés.

As are all genres, which is why you've got to separate the chaff from the wheat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGC_EzojK6E

FF6 opening FTW. :evil:

 

[DraQ]

Anachronox is the perfect example that a game can be great irrespective of its genre, roots or what influenced it (Tom Hall openly admits he was trying to make a western Final Fantasy).

Most RPGs don't have critical successes nearly as epic in their outcome tables.

 

[Longshanks]

Hey guys, it's a trap. If you know enough to disprove his theory, you play too many JRPGs and are therefore retarded. You will be the first to be euthanised when the strong and right of mind are again in power. Good day.

 

[RatFink]

more likely that the sheer masses of jrpg people will take power!
and then it will be you who answers the knocking on the door to be taken away by the jrpgestapo to be raped by tentaclemonsters in nice and kawaii concentrationcamps!

 

[Andyman Messiah]

FF8 start with going to class (fuck the training fight, that's teh vidya). Then a test session in?

Well, actually FF8 starts with Squall waking up in the infirmary after getting injured in the fight against Seifer.

Also this thread is stupid. Wanna critisizzle jrpgs? There are better ways.

Dragon Quest VII had a pretty sweet beginning. It jumped right into the story long after it had began, with the hero serving as bodyguard to an accursed king (turned into a sort of Yoda character) and his princess daughter (turned into a horse, now pulling the caravan). You didn't have to follow the hero through his childhood or jr. high or anything, it just started like a Hercules episode, with the heavier plot details (Kill The Foozle!) falling in afterwads.

Also this is VIII, not VII. Get your jrpgs right.

 

[Hobo Elf]

You niggers need to play more good jRPGs, like King's Field and Demon's Souls.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

inb4skywayandproclamationofdecline

 

[roll-a-die]

That one is so good it pains me to call it a JRPG.

I enjoy using it to show that men of the west do much better JPGs than wapanese, then watching the butthurt bloom.

Yeah that's pretty much what I was driving at (that and the fact it's the only PC-only western JRPG that I know of). Anachronox is the perfect example that a game can be great irrespective of its genre, roots or what influenced it (Tom Hall openly admits he was trying to make a western Final Fantasy).

Septerra Core was another attempt at a western JRPG the results vary allot.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

a cool approach would be to start the game with the main char pulling out of a rape victim in some alley.

 

[roll-a-die]

SMT nocturne starts with you walking into a train station into a modern city street as the world ends.

Persona 3 begins with you walking into a dorm.

Persona 4 starts with you on a car ride to the middle of nowhere shortly before the murder times start.

Raidou 2 starts in a temple as does Raidou 1.

But really The waking up is an interesting aspect. I provides a somewhat better/easier start than the inaction starts. But the example I've given other than Raidou which is an JARPG take the same ease you into it kind of scene, while still being cock ferretingly difficult.