What's with the Oblivion hate?

[One Wolf]

retardo this thread, for the love of god.

 

[Fez]

And deprive VD of valuable feedback about AoD? I think not.

 

[Jasede]

Oh, feedback.
Hey VD, AoD would be better with scantily clad cat-women!

 

[SlavemasterT]

Not enough Khajiit porn.

 

[Elhoim]

Not enough Khajiit porn.

 

[aries202]

I think the whole problem is that this site (and possibly others) have a very fixed percerption of what an rpg is or isn't. And to this site (and possibly others) Oblivion isn't an rpg simply because it doesn't adhere to a set of strict rules, there isn't any micromanagement (or much) going on. And the game let's you play as you choose.
And the roleplaying you do is done in your head, which means that you need to imagine that you're the player character running around Cyrodiil shooting everything, doing quests etc.

I also think that this site (and possibly other's) don't see Oblivion as an rpg, because it doesn't have a set story that the player must follow. The player can choose to do the main story or not etc. etc.

And this goes straight to the definition of an rpg:
Personally, I would say there are to types of rpgs:
There's the D&D type rpgs like NWN2 which has heavily focus on character interaction, story, dialoues, and choice & consequences. (this could be called a game, since it has set rules you need to follow). And then there's the (free-form) rpgs, like Oblivion, where the player is set free to do whatever he or she chooses to do with very little restrictions on what the player (or the player's character can do in say Oblivion). This sort of game should actually be labeled 'play', since play-time is
defined by you making up the rules etc. as you go along and being more free-form in its core.

I also think (sometimes at least) that there a bit of nostalgia going here on the codex, and that we all, even I, want games to be the same as they once were, just like the games we played in 1988 or 1998 or even 2003.

Personally, I don't understand why Oblivion is such a great sales hit...I mean, it is a good game (at least to me), but I don't think it did deserve to get
review scores like 96% or 98% or 9.5 or 9.2 and all these scores. It is not THAT great - after all.

One of my main critiques of the game, Oblivion, is that you have all these gates (from hell) opening up here. And the only thing people seem to care about is that they saw mudcrabs the other day(s).
--- good grief --- as someone from Peanuts would say.

As for the much hyped Radiant AI, Bethesda needed to done this down a notch or two, since it turned out that too mamy quest were broken this way and people, npcs, really could get killed, leaving the player left behind without a clue what to do.

As I understand many other games, including rpgs, deals with this happening i a way so that there always are backup quest givers?? - sadly Bethsoft decided to spent on time on hearing the grass grow literally than they did on this part of the game .

The game looks nice,yes, it does. But to me, it does look a bit to glossy and polished. It is difficult to explain but it is like the commercials of women where you know they have been airbrushed to get the pictures of the women to look better than the women REALLY do. For me the glossyness of the graphics DO mean that it takes away some of the realims or connectedness (if that's a word?) with the game. I feel myself distanced from the world of Cyrdodiil, not immersed, like the potential meaning was and is, I believe.

 

[gc051360]

^No. I think you missed the point. Oblivion is the perfect symbol for what is wrong with the gaming industry in general.

If you were to ask me my problem with the gaming industry right now, I would point to Oblivion and say "there it is." From the pure reliance on graphics, to the dumbed down gameplay, to the way it was ported from XBOX to PC, the way it was hyped...everything. There it is.

 

[Micmu]

Elder Scrolls 4 is to RPGs what Scary Movie 4 is to comedy.
That is all.

Oh, and in before retardo, too.

 

[VenomByte]

I also think that this site (and possibly other's) don't see Oblivion as an rpg, because it doesn't have a set story that the player must follow. The player can choose to do the main story or not etc. etc.

And this goes straight to the definition of an rpg:
Personally, I would say there are to types of rpgs:
There's the D&D type rpgs like NWN2 which has heavily focus on character interaction, story, dialoues, and choice & consequences. (this could be called a game, since it has set rules you need to follow). And then there's the (free-form) rpgs, like Oblivion, where the player is set free to do whatever he or she chooses to do with very little restrictions on what the player (or the player's character can do in say Oblivion). This sort of game should actually be labeled 'play', since play-time is
defined by you making up the rules etc. as you go along and being more free-form in its core.

Nobody here has a problem with free form sandbox-style RPG's. For the most part, Daggerfall is highly respected here, for example.

Oblivion on the other hand, really fucking sucks as a free form RPG too. There is no choice except 'do now or do later'. There is no real consequence for going anywhere (all scaled) or doing anything (because nobody and nothing in the world cares).

Oblivion doesn't just jack a story. It lacks everything except shiny dungeons.

 

[mlc82]

^No. I think you missed the point. Oblivion is the perfect symbol for what is wrong with the gaming industry in general.

If you were to ask me my problem with the gaming industry right now, I would point to Oblivion and say "there it is." From the pure reliance on graphics, to the dumbed down gameplay, to the way it was ported from XBOX to PC, the way it was hyped...everything. There it is.

You hit it on the head.... Dumbed down gameplay, horribly cliched storyline, and every single quest is "go here and kill this". I can play about 10-15 minutes of the game (modded to the point of making it a whole different game mind you) and it just makes me realize that playing Doom 2 is more fun, and has the same basic point.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

You hit it on the head.... Dumbed down gameplay, horribly cliched storyline, and every single quest is "go here and kill this".

There is a lot wrong with Oblivion, but this simply is not true. There were actually a good number of non Fed-ex quests in Oblivion, I'd even wager to say more than in the average RPG. The problem with the quests was that the associated dialogue was too basic and free of RPG choices, the almost complete linearity of the quest design, and the lack of foundation in lore.
And while the setting of the story-line (demonic invasion, la-di-da) was indeed generic, the story device of helping a reluctant hero actually had huge potential - it was just poorly executed, and tripped, again, by the utter linearity.
If you bash Oblivion, please do so informedly.

 

[gc051360]

the story device of helping a reluctant hero actually had huge potential - it was just poorly executed, and tripped, again, by the utter linearity.
If you bash Oblivion, please do so informedly.

The "reluctant hero" seems a bit generic.

Demon Invasion!!!! screams potential for actual cool story elements, and gameplay elements. Even with the fact that it is used all the time.

Everything has potential. It's all about the execution.

 

[Tiavals]

the story device of helping a reluctant hero actually had huge potential - it was just poorly executed, and tripped, again, by the utter linearity.
If you bash Oblivion, please do so informedly.

The "reluctant hero" seems a bit generic.

Demon Invasion!!!! screams potential for actual cool story elements, and gameplay elements. Even with the fact that it is used all the time.

Everything has potential. It's all about the execution.

I agree. No matter how cliche something is, it can be done in a magnificent manner. And something very original can be done in a very horrid manner. It depends on the execution as you said, not on the originality of the content itself.

 

[sportforredneck]

Demon Invasion!!!! screams potential for actual cool story elements, and gameplay elements.

A good story element would be actually having the demons invade rather than making gates and either sitting around or in them.

 

[Ruds]

I hear that Hellgate: London is remodeling their game to be more like Oblivion because of its success. Now instead of demon and zombie infested city streets, the streets are instead populated with 1-2 healthy citizens that stand perfectly still and chat about trivial things. Oh, and there's a demonic gate near the city, but the demons don't actually come out. It's a much more lighthearted take on their original concept, and I think it'll work out better in the long run.

 

[Grandpa Gamer]

Oblivion really shines as a hiking simulator.

I still play it for a bit once in a while, just walking around in the forest, looking at the lovely trees and maybe picking some flowers. I might even do some spelunking. Too bad the caves are so full of annoying critters...

 

[United Nations]

I had a fun time with Oblivion, I really did. This was mostly due to the fact that:

a) My anticipation for the game was nonexistant.
b) I went in thinking the game was going to be absolutely terrible.

To summarize my experience, the main quest was so boring it was painful. However, the Dark Brotherhood quest line made up for a lot of the game's inadequacies, and installing a bunch of graphical upgrade packs didn't hurt either. Add OOOMM, and Oblivion is a decent high fantasy hack & slash.

Gothic 3 was a piece of shit though. I can't fucking believe people try to claim that it was in any way shape or form better than Oblivion. I played both extensively, and while the terrain in Gothic 3 is definitely a site to behold, that is the extent of the game's good qualities. I finally uninstalled the game after arriving upon a group of vultures who were unanimated, yet slid around on the ground like fucking statues.

 

[gc051360]

Demon Invasion!!!! screams potential for actual cool story elements, and gameplay elements.

A good story element would be actually having the demons invade rather than making gates and either sitting around or in them.

Exactly my point.

Or make the demons actually behave like demons. Evil. The demons in Oblivion are no more evil than the wolf you come across in the forest.

 

[xedoc gpr]

Oblivion was sort of like Morrowind. When I first started the game it was amazing and the world outside seemed expansive and breathtaking. I remember exiting the office in Morrowind into the real world and just standing there for a while, thinking that this was a great game. The problem is that as you keep playing that novelty wears off and you start to notice all the bad design more and more. When I first played Morrowind I was hooked, now I can't even play for a few minutes because it feels so stale and lifeless. But I do have to give them credit for creating that great first impression.

Then again, I went straight from Daggerfall to Morrowind without reading any hype or reviews. With Oblivion, it was hyped up so much that I was a bit criticial going into it so maybe the reaction wasn't the same.

It just seems like they did so much things wrong with Oblivion though. Whatever anyone else says, I actually found Morrowind, for most of the main quest, to be fun. Can't say the same about Oblivion.

 

[mlc82]

You hit it on the head.... Dumbed down gameplay, horribly cliched storyline, and every single quest is "go here and kill this".

There is a lot wrong with Oblivion, but this simply is not true. There were actually a good number of non Fed-ex quests in Oblivion, I'd even wager to say more than in the average RPG. The problem with the quests was that the associated dialogue was too basic and free of RPG choices, the almost complete linearity of the quest design, and the lack of foundation in lore.
And while the setting of the story-line (demonic invasion, la-di-da) was indeed generic, the story device of helping a reluctant hero actually had huge potential - it was just poorly executed, and tripped, again, by the utter linearity.
If you bash Oblivion, please do so informedly.

I played through the majority of the game a few times in a vain attempt to like it, and didn't see a single interesting peaceful quest except maybe a few for the Thief guild requiring me to steal this or that... Even the mage guild quests were "go here and kill this". Any peaceful quest would feel pointless anyway given that you receive no reward for your character in completing them anyway (Xp, alignment, etc).

I hardly think the reluctant hero idea is original when it comes to plotlines, maybe for computer games but definitely not entertainment/literature in general.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

And the roleplaying you do is done in your head, which means that you need to imagine that you're the player character running around Cyrodiil shooting everything, doing quests etc.

You, Sir, are beyond parody.

 

[OverrideB1]

I don't hate Oblivion -- I have absolutely zero feeling about it. It's a game I have no intention ofever purchasing, even from the bargain bins: which makes it the first ES game I'll ever have skipped. Frankly, I'd rather repeatedly slam my testicles in a desk-drawer than validate Bethesda's crass commercialism and reliance on graphics over actual role-playing elements.

I do hate Bethesda for what they did to the series, basically taking anything that was any good in MW and DF and binning it 'cause they felt it was too complex for their target audience. What was left was an over-hyped, bland non-entity of a game, lacking even the charm of MW (which was pretty bleh in and of itself). Hell, MW was a masterpiece of role-playing compared to the game-play banality that was Oblivion.

Effectively, they've lost a member of their "core audience" (or what used to be their core audience) and I have no intention of supporting them by buying any other TES game unless there is a fundamental shift in policy. And I can't see that happening with the dumbfucks that are now in charge... like, ever.