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What's really wrong in ME, TES 4-5 and their ilk

Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
4,338
Location
Bureaukratistan
I have noticed how reviewers usually praise these games for their polish while simultaneously calling the good games rough diamonds (or rough shit, depending on the reviewer). This may hold true on a purely technical viewpoint, but otherwise - these games feel shoddily made, cheap products. No attention to detail, no fleshing out anything and never a moment where you raise your eyebrows and think "What the fuck?".

Think about how many lines they bothered to write for the mercenaries in JA2 for all kinds of situations, or the odd way that thief Witless talks in Arcanum (name one non-main villain from ME that you can remember in any way), stuff as obvious as agriculture in Fallout - mostly absent in Fallout 3, replaced by completely nonsensical gimmicks like child town (don't even think where the new kids come from. Heck, don't think of how any of the communities in the game could ever function, your brain will just break.). Small stuff, but apparently too much work.

Just think of Mass Effect, a 90+ AAA product, supposedly well polished with some complaints of it's copypaste sidquest worlds. Well, in addition, it has copypaste enemies like those zombie-things that were used for something like four different enemies without even changing anything in their appearance - impaled geth things, diseased people, alien mind control thing infested people, people with multiple organs - all the same zombies. The weapons are mostly the same weapon copied 30 times with names as original as "Dragon VIII", the people don't have any distinguishing features, and so on. I tried to replay it but I found out that I just can't, it's all just too sterile and there are no good parts to look forward to. One big problem is the superfluous loot, it's like they just couldn't be arsed to test when it would be a good time to give the player some new and shiny guns, how to make the game flow, instead they just had "free guns always everywhere a lot".

This goes for Fallout 3, too. You can expect that there's something cool there, but you'll be always let down, there could be potentially exciting situations and some drama but the incredibly shoddy execution always fails to deliver.

I don't think you can just ignore the small stuff and get the big picture right, nor do the small stuff right but somehow make it generally bad, so a design philosophy like that of Bethesda's - draw a really big picture and leave it at that, quantity and screw quality - will ever produce a good game.
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
In ME they spent all the time doing graphics and the lesbian-secks cutscene. In Fallout 3...well, Bethesda are simply incompetent.
 

bhlaab

Erudite
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,787
The fact that they're making these RPGs for people who hate RPGs
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
So what you are saying is:

People excuse mainstream games for atleast being polished, even though they are pretty fucking far from being polished, and have no redeeming merits at all.

Because it is true.
 

Major_Boobage

Scholar
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
2,335
Location
Belgium, where they eat Jewish children
It doesnt all have to bad, remember that in sheer contrast to KOTOR 2 KOTOR 1 was a well polished game and it was a good game too. The codex hivemind appears to think that the POS named KOTOR 2 is better because the story is better, the characters are deeper and whatever. Even when the game is quite the opposite to polished.

Anyway i am rambling here, my point is that well polished and good game do not contradict. Ergo KOTOR 1.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
Reviewers are either bribed or stupid; what's been said shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone with a three-digit IQ.

bhlaab said:
The fact that they're making these RPGs for people who hate RPGs
They're making games for Chris Avellone types?
 

Phelot

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
17,908
I agree with the OP.

It's sad really that this is what games have become. I know we always use Torment as an example, but that game really did have the most memorable NPCs in any game. I mean, they actually took the time to describe a lot of the character's appearances and not just "the lady has black hair."

I remember when Ignus' old lover was described as "she may have once been beautiful, but those days are over" or something along those lines. They really described how tired she was awaiting her loved one. Really great stuff that you just don't see anymore...

I've mentioned before about the lack of item descriptions in games. It's like they just can't be bothered with it... they claim that they "are more focused on important things" I suppose like... graphics.

I guess it comes down to this: Torment is a great game that is memorable, but that isn't going to make a company money. Remembering a game a decade or so after it was made doesn't increase profits. Pumping out games that have 20 hour entertainment value that is followed up by sequels is how you make money, and lets face it: that's what these companies are about. Oh well.
 
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
54
ME is pretty awesome. Anyone who disagrees is wrong and wouldn't know a good game if it came up and kicked them in the knackersack.
 

TisATrap

Educated
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
390
I keep on coming back to read the codex every four months or so, hoping that somehow a studio has balls of steel and puts out a true RPG and I'd see discussions about it here, and I keep getting bored because nothing of interest happens in the dead world of cRPGs.
cRPGs as a genre is so dead it doesn't even smell funny anymore, its body has evaporated. It doesn't exist, plain simple.

That some dumbfucks here would call ME a good game is miserable on so many levels.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
it's a small one, vo, plus vicky's jaw is distended from all those wrestling reviews
 

Helioth

Scholar
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
155
Location
Berlin - Dystopia.
TisATrap said:
I keep on coming back to read the codex every four months or so, hoping that somehow a studio has balls of steel and puts out a true RPG and I'd see discussions about it here, and I keep getting bored because nothing of interest happens in the dead world of cRPGs.
cRPGs as a genre is so dead it doesn't even smell funny anymore, its body has evaporated. It doesn't exist, plain simple.

That some dumbfucks here would call ME a good game is miserable on so many levels.
 

Jaime Lannister

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
7,183
i check the codex every second, waiting to see if someone has had the balls of steel to make a post like the op's

there's usually one every 4.57 hours
 

Morkar Left

Guest
Demnogonis Saastuttaja said:
I have noticed how reviewers usually praise these games for their polish while simultaneously calling the good games rough diamonds (or rough shit, depending on the reviewer). This may hold true on a purely technical viewpoint,

Hightech (graphics, graphics, cutscenes, motion capturing, voice acting, graphics) is generally a sign for bigger budgets. Bigger budgets means bigger marketing. Bigger marketing means more attention to consumers (aka review-readers) and more money from advertisement the reviewers are depending on.
 

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