What wargames do you play and why?

[udm]

I tried getting into Kill Team/40K but couldn't. Just not what I'm looking for in a wargame.

I dabbled in a bit of DUST Tactics/1947 before it went under (again). It's fun enough for platoon-level warfare.

X-Wing was fun until I realised I'd lost all interest in Star Wars.

Gaslands is alright but it has some really stupid rules like collision.

Battletech I'm still playing every now and then. It just doesn't get old.

But what I'm really looking for though is a game that's similar to Jagged Alliance or even X-Com, where it's got more simulationist systems (weapons with their own stats, fast-paced, individual miniature-level, stances). The closest I got was an indie game called Star Breach, but it's not granular enough. Oh well

 

[Caim]

One Page Rules

Been getting into this a bit more. The 3.3 update hit last week, and there's been two major chances:

- A new activation: Assault. This lets you both shoot and charge, but you get -1 to hit on both types of attack. This is useful for elite armies with fewer models but good quality ratings.
- Shaken units can still activate as normal, but they move at half speed, get -1 to quality and defense rolls, and can't hold objectives, and they get out of it by spending one turn doing nothing. This means that your units won't be rendered useless the second they get Shaken.

I've also looked into playing OPR through Tabletop Simulator. There is a mod that adds OPR stuff, but it's both out of date and there's lots of broken links that means it's not really usable.

 

[Arrowgrab]

But what I'm really looking for though is a game that's similar to Jagged Alliance or even X-Com, where it's got more simulationist systems (weapons with their own stats, fast-paced, individual miniature-level, stances). The closest I got was an indie game called Star Breach, but it's not granular enough. Oh well

Sounds like you're looking for squad-level tactical games, so maybe Advanced Squad Leader or Twilight 2000?

 

[Hell Swarm]

One Page Rules

Been getting into this a bit more. The 3.3 update hit last week, and there's been two major chances:

- A new activation: Assault. This lets you both shoot and charge, but you get -1 to hit on both types of attack. This is useful for elite armies with fewer models but good quality ratings.
- Shaken units can still activate as normal, but they move at half speed, get -1 to quality and defense rolls, and can't hold objectives, and they get out of it by spending one turn doing nothing. This means that your units won't be rendered useless the second they get Shaken.

I've also looked into playing OPR through Tabletop Simulator. There is a mod that adds OPR stuff, but it's both out of date and there's lots of broken links that means it's not really usable.

I really like Assault as a rule. I think it has potential to set up some really interesting game situations. Fanbase is being whiny about it, saying there's too many rules and it's too powerful for elite armies and bad for swarm ones. Won't make a huge difference either way and everyone knew mixed units needed a buff and this is exactly what was needed without adding too much bloat.

Shaken changes is nice. Losing a full turn was stupid. You could stun lock enemy units if you really wanted.

 

[Caim]

One Page Rules

Been getting into this a bit more. The 3.3 update hit last week, and there's been two major chances:

- A new activation: Assault. This lets you both shoot and charge, but you get -1 to hit on both types of attack. This is useful for elite armies with fewer models but good quality ratings.
- Shaken units can still activate as normal, but they move at half speed, get -1 to quality and defense rolls, and can't hold objectives, and they get out of it by spending one turn doing nothing. This means that your units won't be rendered useless the second they get Shaken.

I've also looked into playing OPR through Tabletop Simulator. There is a mod that adds OPR stuff, but it's both out of date and there's lots of broken links that means it's not really usable.

I really like Assault as a rule. I think it has potential to set up some really interesting game situations. Fanbase is being whiny about it, saying there's too many rules and it's too powerful for elite armies and bad for swarm ones. Won't make a huge difference either way and everyone knew mixed units needed a buff and this is exactly what was needed without adding too much bloat.

Shaken changes is nice. Losing a full turn was stupid. You could stun lock enemy units if you really wanted.

It's true that Assault is better for elite armies compared to swarm armies, but it balances out with how many units the swarms get and the sheer amount of dice they get to roll in lieu of the elite armies. Even then the armies that get the most out of it are the Custodians, a few types of Battle Brothers and some of the Titans, but those have their own issues.

 

[Hell Swarm]

It's true that Assault is better for elite armies compared to swarm armies, but it balances out with how many units the swarms get and the sheer amount of dice they get to roll in lieu of the elite armies. Even then the armies that get the most out of it are the Custodians, a few types of Battle Brothers and some of the Titans, but those have their own issues.

Won't Orcs get a decent chunk of change out of it? Tempted to try it this weekend with some Havoc bros. Got some bolt pistol and chainsword dudes I can use to hold an objective and bum rush any one moving in

 

[Caim]

It's true that Assault is better for elite armies compared to swarm armies, but it balances out with how many units the swarms get and the sheer amount of dice they get to roll in lieu of the elite armies. Even then the armies that get the most out of it are the Custodians, a few types of Battle Brothers and some of the Titans, but those have their own issues.

Won't Orcs get a decent chunk of change out of it? Tempted to try it this weekend with some Havoc bros. Got some bolt pistol and chainsword dudes I can use to hold an objective and bum rush any one moving in

Orcs have the ability that has them shoot at 5+ instead of their normal Quality, which becomes a 6 because of the -1 you get from assaulting. The -1 also applies to shooting.

This means that for trading in one-sixth of your hits in melee you get one-sixth of the shots you'd get from your shooting attacks. And when you have the same attacks for both shooting and melee, like the normal Ork Mobs do, this means that you break even. Sure Orks also have the Furious rule (sixes in melee get you an extra hit), but that's just on the charge, not the assault. This is supported by the existence of the Shooty rule, which does the same as Furious but for shooting. Several of the more elite units have these, but for the rest it's breaking even at best.

An example would be some kitted out Ork Pirates. Give them Ultra Claws for an A2 AP4 melee weapon to complement their A1 AP4 Deadly 3 gun. They're normally Quality 3+, so if you are willing to turn that into Quality 4+ for melee purposes you get three shots that on a 6 land two hits at a superior statline than what you gave up. Sure it's still not 100% certain, but that's the game. Also don't actually run this unit: this unit of Ork Pirates comes in groups of 3, have Defense 4+ with no Tough value and a 175 point cost, way too flimsy.

But for your example of the melee kitted Havoc Brothers: your quality of 3+ in melee becomes a 4+ in melee and 4+ shooting. 10 Havoc Brothers with pistol + CCW will go from 13.333 hits in melee to 10 hits to gain 5 pistol hits. And 15 hits that all have AP1 against a Defense 4+ unit is enough to, on average, wipe out a 10 man squad in one go. As long as what you trade in is worse than what you get back, it's worth it.

Funnily enough this also means that a standard Quality 6+ also gains from these changes, meaning that it's only the Quality 5+ that doesn't gain with equal weapons.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Sure Orks also have the Furious rule (sixes in melee get you an extra hit), but that's just on the charge, not the assault.

Assault is a charge still. All the abilities still trigger. The rules are needing to be rewritten right now as OPR being the genius furry autist he is didn't think people would remove models from the front of the unit so the 6" charge now fails to hit a target..

4+ to hit seems like it would also suffer quite badly from it. 3 to 4 isn't huge but 4 to 5 is starting to dip into goblin territory.

 

[Caim]

https://www.onepagerules.com/news/patch-notes-may-14th-2024

So less than a month later 3.3.1 hit for OPR, and there's a few changes, and not for the better:

- Assault has gotten rid of the "half movement" part of its rules, allowing you to charge at full distance instead of half. It also clarifies that you need to shoot at whatever you're assaulting, just in case.
- But... Assault has been moved to the Extra Actions section of the Advanced Rules chapter of the full rulebook because of "complexity" issues.
- In the same section of the book there is the new Last Stand actions, which is a new optional action where Shaken units can take a Last Stand, which... means they lose their ability to use rules that require picking targets (like psychic powers). No, they don't get anything in return. This is likely an oversight, since the blog post states they wanted to return Shaken to how it was in previous editions.
- True Line of Sight is now the offical way LOS works (you go down to model level and look if you can see their target), the other two have been moved to the tournament rules.

There's also been point changes, so make sure to recalculate your armies.

 

[Hell Swarm]

https://www.onepagerules.com/news/patch-notes-may-14th-2024

So less than a month later 3.3.1 hit for OPR, and there's a few changes, and not for the better:

- Assault has gotten rid of the "half movement" part of its rules, allowing you to charge at full distance instead of half. It also clarifies that you need to shoot at whatever you're assaulting, just in case.
- But... Assault has been moved to the Extra Actions section of the Advanced Rules chapter of the full rulebook because of "complexity" issues.
- In the same section of the book there is the new Last Stand actions, which is a new optional action where Shaken units can take a Last Stand, which... means they lose their ability to use rules that require picking targets (like psychic powers). No, they don't get anything in return. This is likely an oversight, since the blog post states they wanted to return Shaken to how it was in previous editions.
- True Line of Sight is now the offical way LOS works (you go down to model level and look if you can see their target), the other two have been moved to the tournament rules.

There's also been point changes, so make sure to recalculate your armies.

Assault being full movement makes marines have basically no downside. Yea, I'll take 4+ to hit to add an extra third to my attacks thanks. I'm missing 1/6th more for 1/3rd more attacks.

I don't understand how the furry faggot expects people to play with weird LOS and base size shit. This is a solved problem. Measure base to base and recommend base sizes. If people want other size bases then cool but stop acting like bases don't exist when we have paper fucking models for people to print which obviously need bases to function.

The first major tourney has been arranged for the UK using third party armies. It's part of a kickstarter deal. I could possibly attend but I'm thinking an OPR tourney played for keeps would be miserable. Way too easy to make broken shit and the lists provided are quite small. I might print some everdark elves to use in Kings of war but their list has so few options.

 

[Arrowgrab]

Hullo, wargamers. I'd like to ask for your recommendations.

I'm looking for a wargame to supplement a pen-and-paper RPG campaign, running large-scale wars and battles where mid-to-high level PCs can act as commanders and lead armies between bouts of smaller-scale traditional adventuring. Can you fine folks share some recommendations along the following guidelines?


- Can do Bronze Age and Ancients. I want my chariots and elephants. Medieval is a plus.

- Works with army sizes of high hundreds to mid-to-high thousands.

- Possibly has provisions for operational-level gameplay: supplies, losses carrying over into the next battle, travelling times, etc. Not a critical issue; I imagine I can just Tony Bath's Ancient Wargaming for this part if I want to.

- Can be run using wooden blocks or somesuch to represent army elements and colored pieces of felt or paper for terrain features. The idea of having to shell out money for hundreds of detailed figurines and then paint them holds zero appeal to me because I am not an obsessive-compulsive feminine man.

- Has some role for generals: combat bonuses on the fields, something to do with giving orders, etc. The PCs will need to have something to do, after all.

- Could be houseruled to include fantastic creatures or large scale battlefield spells without too much trouble.


I'm currently looking the De Bellis Antiquitatis / Mulittudinis / Magistrorum Militum. Is there anything else you think I should check out?

 

[Hell Swarm]

Maybe don't insult the people you're asking for help from? Might give you a better shot at getting help from them you sad pathetic imaginary friend having, elf pretending to be, queer sissy boy.

 

[Caim]

As expected, the whole Shaken/Last Stand thing has been fixed in a revision. The new rules are:

Must stay idle, counts as fatigued, always fails morale tests, and can’t contest or seize objectives. Shaken units must spend one full activation idle to stop being Shaken.

Only Shaken units may take Last Stand actions. When taking a Last Stand action, the unit counts as being in Last Stand instead of being Shaken until its next activation, and then it goes back to being Shaken. Units in Last Stand get -1 to Quality and Defense rolls, halve their movement, can’t contest or seize objectives, and can’t use any rules that require picking a target (ex.: Caster).

So now you can choose to either leave Shaken or enter a Last Stand to get at least some use out of your unit at the cost of it not functioning at full capacity for another turn.

 

[Hell Swarm]

As expected, the whole Shaken/Last Stand thing has been fixed in a revision. The new rules are:

Must stay idle, counts as fatigued, always fails morale tests, and can’t contest or seize objectives. Shaken units must spend one full activation idle to stop being Shaken.

Only Shaken units may take Last Stand actions. When taking a Last Stand action, the unit counts as being in Last Stand instead of being Shaken until its next activation, and then it goes back to being Shaken. Units in Last Stand get -1 to Quality and Defense rolls, halve their movement, can’t contest or seize objectives, and can’t use any rules that require picking a target (ex.: Caster).

So now you can choose to either leave Shaken or enter a Last Stand to get at least some use out of your unit at the cost of it not functioning at full capacity for another turn.

This is fucking stupid because it doesn't change the rules. It just tries to appease whiners by putting a slight bit more complexity into the advance rules instead of the base rules. There is fundamentally no change to how it worked before except now it's split into 2 rules. They were trying to fix the problem where if a unit got disordered turn 3 then it was effectively removed from the game meaning it was as good as dead. The previous edition did that but the whiners on facebook won't stop crying the moment the game is more than move 6 inches and roll dice over and over.

 

[Caim]

As expected, the whole Shaken/Last Stand thing has been fixed in a revision. The new rules are:

Must stay idle, counts as fatigued, always fails morale tests, and can’t contest or seize objectives. Shaken units must spend one full activation idle to stop being Shaken.

Only Shaken units may take Last Stand actions. When taking a Last Stand action, the unit counts as being in Last Stand instead of being Shaken until its next activation, and then it goes back to being Shaken. Units in Last Stand get -1 to Quality and Defense rolls, halve their movement, can’t contest or seize objectives, and can’t use any rules that require picking a target (ex.: Caster).

So now you can choose to either leave Shaken or enter a Last Stand to get at least some use out of your unit at the cost of it not functioning at full capacity for another turn.

This is fucking stupid because it doesn't change the rules. It just tries to appease whiners by putting a slight bit more complexity into the advance rules instead of the base rules. There is fundamentally no change to how it worked before except now it's split into 2 rules. They were trying to fix the problem where if a unit got disordered turn 3 then it was effectively removed from the game meaning it was as good as dead. The previous edition did that but the whiners on facebook won't stop crying the moment the game is more than move 6 inches and roll dice over and over.

I never really looked at the extra actions, so I glossed them over. The most recent ones on top of Last Stand and Assault are:

- Hunker Down. Don't do anything, but you're -2 to hit against shooting attacks until its next activation. Shaken units can do this.
- Defensive Stance. Can't attack back in melee, but gets -2 To Hit until its next activation. Shaken units can do this.
- Focused Fire. Unit can't move, but gets +1 to hit shooting targets within 12". Possibly huge.
- Heavy Charge. When charging a unit within between 3" and 6" you get +1 to hit. Creates a major incentive to properly measure your movements.
- Stealth Move. Advance, but instead of shooting you being shot at is at -1 to hit.
- Covering Fire. Shoot without moving, you only hit on a 6, for every hit you roll a die, and on at least one 4+ the target takes a Morale test, then discard all hits. Depending on your army this is potentially HUGE.
- Overwatch. Do nothing, but during your enemy's activation you can either shoot at a unit that moves within range, or a unit that shoots at your unit within 24", with both being at -1 to hit.

The first two are a major boost against being Shaken, potentially shutting down one of your enemy's major units. Focused Fire and Heavy Charge reward armies that play at short range, Stealth Move can be a straight up bonus for units that can othewise not shoot, Covering Fire is killing against low Quality units and Overwatch makes units with good weapons but no targets way more dangerous.

I can see that not all of these rules make it into the main game, but at least SOME of them could.

 

[Hell Swarm]

- Hunker Down. Don't do anything, but you're -2 to hit against shooting attacks until its next activation. Shaken units can do this.

Don't like this. Encourages turtling on objectives, you sacrifice very little to become near impossible to kill for anything but marines.

- Defensive Stance. Can't attack back in melee, but gets -2 To Hit until its next activation. Shaken units can do this.

See above.

- Focused Fire. Unit can't move, but gets +1 to hit shooting targets within 12". Possibly huge.

Seems busted and it's additional rules bloat for no reason.

- Heavy Charge. When charging a unit within between 3" and 6" you get +1 to hit. Creates a major incentive to properly measure your movements.

Good way to start an argument. If my sarge is 2"s away but my power fist guy is 4" what happens? Do you make conga lines and declare your charge from just the right one?

- Stealth Move. Advance, but instead of shooting you being shot at is at -1 to hit.

I like this but I would rather see it as a unit ability rather than generic. A unit of scouts could sacrifice it's movement to be harder to hit. OPR under uses unit profiles and this has huge potential.

- Covering Fire. Shoot without moving, you only hit on a 6, for every hit you roll a die, and on at least one 4+ the target takes a Morale test, then discard all hits. Depending on your army this is potentially HUGE.

Don't like this. It's dumb and unnecessary. It sounds like a newbie trap.

- Overwatch. Do nothing, but during your enemy's activation you can either shoot at a unit that moves within range, or a unit that shoots at your unit within 24", with both being at -1 to hit.

Absolute fucking lutely not. Way too easy to break in scenario games. I'll take my points and sit in cover with reactive fire so as soon as any unit advances near me I can optionally light it up. Overwatch works on single model skirmish games. Doesn't work when you can have 20 guys sitting on an objective shooting any unit that closes in.

I thought assault fit in with the rest of the game well. It solved the problem with melee units wasting pistols while giving a distinct choice. I had the -1 punish me pretty hard in some games and I felt I took a chance and paid for it. I don't see the point of most of these except to add additional complexity for the sake of it and ruin the turn order. If I want to 'overwatch' someone then I should activate the unit and do that. Shouldn't be able to delay activations for later.