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What RPG -system should I choose? I have the following preferences...

white-k

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Oct 29, 2013
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I'm totally new to RPGs so I bought the 'Dungeons & Dragons Essentials -kit (4:th edition)'. However, after reading the manuals for a bit I find it to be too much focus on miniatures and grids and pre-defined monsters, so I have started searching for something else.

What I'm looking for:

- Something that does not have to rely on playing with miniatures on grids.
- Something where players (and GM) get a lot of freedom of choice.
- Something that does not require a huge amount of reading to get started.
- I would mostly like to be playing in classic "fantasy" -settings, but does not like to feel limited to that.
- Players should not be "locked" in their roles, but a barbarian should be able to learn magic etc.
- It should have a bit of dice-tossing in it.

There seems to bee so many to choose from that it gets my head spinning; GURPS, RuneQuest, FUDGE, FATE, WFRP, d20, etcetera.
Some that have been recommended to me on another forum are: Fate Accelerated, Basic RolePlaying, BareBones Fantasy Role-playing Game, Dungeon World, Basic Fantasy RPG.

Can you guys help to steer me in the right direction?
 

SuicideBunny

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Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera
sounds like you might rather like something more narrative. mebbe try fate or the window or some other narrative system.
 

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Concerning the game system itself, I think World of Darkness (Vampires, Werewolves...) is the tightest one : It is easy to gauge a dice result, It avoids the flat distribution of the D20 without requiring any addition or other uninteresting arithmetical operation that slows the game down, and is easy for the GM to interpret.
But I don't know of any medieval fantasy game that uses it.

The CODA system is pretty nice too : Much more streamlined than most generic systems, and doesn't have the ridiculous power curve of D20(which might be a good thing or not depending on what you are looking for).
There was a Lord of the Ring RPG that used this system.
 

ksaun

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Numenera could be worth looking into IF you can acclimate to the science fantasy aspect. I generally prefer fantasy and I found some of the technology aspects initially disorienting, but I've found it appealing as I've explored it more. You can run a campaign with more of a fantasy feel if you wish and the system and setting provide a lot of flexibility for GM and players alike. Numenera has some dice-rolling (mostly just d20), but focuses more on the narrative than the tactics. It has only three classes, but each character also has a "focus," which isn't restricted by class and can provide a host of abilities ranging from martial capabilities to spell-like powers -- this, combined with the crazy "magic" items, could give you the barbarian-can-use-magic feel that you seek.

If you like the flavor of the setting, it could be a good fit. Maybe read the Amber Monolith short story and see if it appeals.

Disclaimer: I'm working on a video game that's based in Numenera's Ninth World.
 

hiver

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Nice to know focus isnt restricted with class. I didnt know that from before.
 

Alex

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white-k

It depends a lot on what you want out of your games. For instance, many of the older D&D books and modules expected the players would be interested in logistics. Stuff such as considering how much food you will need to get from civilized point A to civilized point B, how many hirelings you should bring to haul back the treasure in a Dragon's cave, how long does it take to mine from one room to another in a dungeon, in order to avoid a trap. This might seem a little dull, but it makes sense when it is added with another aspect of those games, which is creative problem solving. Stuff like using the fireball spell on the nearby river, so the steam helps your party escape from a dragon or making a donkey drink holy water and using illusion to disguise it as a passed out lady, in order to fool the vampire.

Other games can focus on very different aspects. Burning Wheel, for instance, focuses on collective storytelling of stories similar to some older fantasy works, such as Lords of the Rings or A Wizard of Earthsea. The game has all kinds of rules to help keep the game following this kind of style of story, though of course, they depend on the Players and the GMs too. Some games are all about telling a specific story, others are about experiencing a sort of dilemma, etc.

About any role playing game gives the players and GMs a great amount of liberty, at least if it is really an RPG. That is, while a certain system might not provide rules for swinging in chandeliers, it usually is expected the GM will be able to use the system guidelines to improvise. A few systems might discourage this kind of thing, or force the GM to adapt any player action in a static framework, so the game remains "fair". For instance in Dogs in the Vineyards, in any conflict, any action or reaction you make will have the same effect based on the rules. A few of them can invoke special rules, and a GM might forbid you from reacting to a gunshot by trying to use diplomacy on the bullet, but it matters little if you decide to dive for cover to dodge or use your luck to happen to have your bible right where the bullet would have hit you (the system is actually a lot more interesting that this little tidbit might make it seem, but it still illustrate this point well). Still, even in such systems, you can always house rule.

On the other hand, games like the first edition of D&D, or Tunnels and Trolls, or maybe even Dungeoneer (the old RPG system using the Fighting Fantasy booklets rules) rely on the GM being able to come up with rulings on the spot. T&T at least gives the GM a reasonably robust framework in the form of attribute saving throws, but if the game is to be any fun, the GM really needs to be fair and impartial in his many rulings, so the game remains fair and challenging. For instance, the fireball in AD&D 1e worked so that it would keep expanding until it filled its volume.The volume was 33,000 cubic feet, meaning that in a dungeon with 10 ft tall roof, it would fill up 132 5x5 squares. This meant that it was quite easy for a mage to kill his own party, but it also meant a really well placed fireball could wipe out a whole lair of monsters. There isn't an specific rule as to how the fireball fills up these squares, however, and however the GM decides to deal with it, he should make sure it is applied fairly. If he ers in favor of the players, the spell will never present interesting choices. If he ers against them, the spell will be almost useless.

Anyway, Dungeoneer (the RPG, not the card game) or Tunnels and Trolls might fit what you are looking for. They are reasonably simple, short and open. They may fault however, in being too open. Rules in these games sometimes are "too simple", because they expect you to add in your own rulings and house rules to make the game more engaging.
 

L'ennui

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Judging from your original post, Dungeon World has been made expressly for your tastes. The rules are offered online for free, you should check it out.

Envoyé de mon HUAWEI MT1-U06 en utilisant Tapatalk
 

white-k

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Many thanks for your suggestions and good advice! And to Alex for his very informative post!

By the way, here are a few suggestions I acquired at another forum:

- FATE Core/Accelerated - This has gotten the most suggestions/"votes".
- Dungeon World - This come number two in terms of votes, but there seems to be divided opinions as to the freedom within the 'Classes'.
- Basic Roleplaying - BRP - This came third in counts of votes.
- BareBones Fantasy Role-playing Game - This was suggested only once but looks really tempting to me.
- Savage Worlds.


What are your thoughts on those candidates?
 

Alex

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Many thanks for your suggestions and good advice! And to Alex for his very informative post!

By the way, here are a few suggestions I acquired at another forum:

- FATE Core/Accelerated - This has gotten the most suggestions/"votes".
- Dungeon World - This come number two in terms of votes, but there seems to be divided opinions as to the freedom within the 'Classes'.
- Basic Roleplaying - BRP - This came third in counts of votes.
- BareBones Fantasy Role-playing Game - This was suggested only once but looks really tempting to me.
- Savage Worlds.


What are your thoughts on those candidates?

Well, personally, I am not a big fan of FATE. It isn't without some good ideas, and what I have seen of the setting books (like Dresden Files or Spirit of the Century) was really good. But it also has some really bad ideas, from my point of view, at least. FATE plays with a resource called (unsurprisingly) fate points. You get and spend fate points by having "aspects" (key words that describe your character and the scene he is in) invoked. For instance, you can get a fate point by having your "Drunkard" aspect compelled (it could be either you, the GM or another player who compels it) while you are in a tavern so you would start drinking. You could spend a fate point on the same aspect by having your character fit in the tavern when an enemy NPC came looking for him, giving you the ability to either add 2 to the result of a roll or rerolling.

My problem with this is that this is an awfully complicated way to do stuff that in a normal game would be just common sense between players and GMs. In Gurps, for instance, I would point out to the GM "Hey, you said this is a pretty dark alley, right? I figure this merits a bonus to my sneaking skill... or maybe a penalty to the police's perception rolls?". Here, you need instead to tag the "Dark" aspect of the alleyway in order to get a bonus, and spend a fate point while doing that. For my tastes at least, the mere fact that the alleyway having an effect or not depends on whether you spent fate is enough to leave a sour taste on my mouth. But besides that, it also feels pretty artificial. This is the kind of stuff that doesn't need hard rules in my opinion. Of course, if you feel this might be something fun for you, go ahead!

I haven't took much of an in-depth look into savage worlds, but all I've seen about it make it look like a simplified Deadlands. I mean, I know you would prefer a simple system, but certain stuff in the game is made simpler by being "gamey", which is something I would recommend you to avoid. The damage system in particular seems pretty annoying.

About Dungeon World, I initially was really hopeful about this project, but the result made me realize that what I had been hopeful for was a bit impossible. Let me try to explain, DW took as its base a game called Apocalypse World, a rather nice game about (surprise) trying to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. Anyway, the interesting thing about AW (and, I expect, DW, though I never actually got to play it) is that the rules it use are rather open ended. They are more like guidelines and principles than actual rules, though there are dice rolls, of course, and when those happens, they define something important about the world. For instance, one of AW's moves is "Seizing by Force". When you try to take something by force, you need to roll 2d6 and add in a specific attribute of your character. If the result is 6 or more, you manage, but with complications, if it is nine or more, you manage it as you desire. What seizing means can vary with the context, it could be a physical object, an area during a fight, attention, or something of the kind (force here means strictly violence, though). Whenever someone might be doing something that would be considered seizing by force, the game stops being just imaginative, and the dice decide how this effort goes. There are, of course, other moves that represent other kinds of important actions.

All this makes for a very interesting game. However, I hoped that DW would manage to integrate it with the more "player skill" driven approach of certain games, many of which happen to be older. But these things kind of get in the way of one another. Moves are the heart of what makes DW and AW themselves. And you can make the moves so that they require some kind of player skill. In AW, the move for influencing people requires that you have some kind of leverage over them, something you can bargain or threaten them with. And gaining this kind of leverage can be challenging. But in the end, if you really want the game to be all about coming up with crazy plans and logistics, then the moves get in the way. For this kind of game, they are better stated as GM advice instead of hard rules.

All in all, I figure DW might be a good game to begin with, but I wouldn't want to keep playing it for very long, I think. Not only because of what I mentioned above, but I feel they didn't support late gameplay all that well. The spell list and stuff like that is rather limited if compared to D&D too. On the bright side, classes in that game can get abilities from other classes, though they aren't as good as the other class. Well, technically, I guess you could only take one such ability, but there isn't much problem in allowing two or more... You can always multiclass later on too.

I haven't read Barebones Fantasy, but this review on RPG.net make it seem like a simple RPG done right.

Basic Roleplaying Game is a good game, using rules based in those used in the old Runequest, Pendragon, Call of C'thulhu and several other games by Chaosium. My only reservation is that those rules are a bit complex sometimes, and while you can certainly treat the most complex ones as optional, you might need to do a little more reading than you might want to.
 

white-k

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Again an impressive reply Alex. My compliments to you!

I have now already ordered the hardcover-version of 'BareBones Fantasy RPG' - Because of the raving reviews and since it seems a light read. I figure I could perhaps live with having "classes" for a while and then take it from there.
Also, I have started reading up on 'Dungeon World' - Because of the large amount of "votes" and also its high ranking on RPGGeek.com - However at 410 pages its a bit borderline to what I'm willing to invest at these early stages of my Roleplaying career :) so we'l see how it goes.

By the way... since some of these PDF-files are hundreds of pages - is there an online service (with international shipping) to print them (just for personal use and easier readability) in ring-binder format?
 

Aikanaro

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Feb 3, 2004
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Have a look at Archipelago. The only thing missing in your wishlist is the dice-tossing (it uses cards for resolution, and even then only lightly).
It's pretty far design-wise from traditional RPGs though, if that concerns you at all.
 

Ninjerk

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rpg.net would probably be a good place to ask this. The website has a staggering list of PnP systems.
 

Night Goat

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Concerning the game system itself, I think World of Darkness (Vampires, Werewolves...) is the tightest one : It is easy to gauge a dice result, It avoids the flat distribution of the D20 without requiring any addition or other uninteresting arithmetical operation that slows the game down, and is easy for the GM to interpret.
But I don't know of any medieval fantasy game that uses it.
I don't know about the new one, but the old World of Darkness had the Dark Ages setting.
 
Self-Ejected

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Concerning the game system itself, I think World of Darkness (Vampires, Werewolves...) is the tightest one : It is easy to gauge a dice result, It avoids the flat distribution of the D20 without requiring any addition or other uninteresting arithmetical operation that slows the game down, and is easy for the GM to interpret.
But I don't know of any medieval fantasy game that uses it.
I don't know about the new one, but the old World of Darkness had the Dark Ages setting.
It's still very much a setting system, not sure how much goood it would do for him.
 

Scrub

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- Something that does not require a huge amount of reading to get started.

I'd go with GURPS.

+M



Concerning the game system itself, I think World of Darkness (Vampires, Werewolves...) is the tightest one : It is easy to gauge a dice result, It avoids the flat distribution of the D20 without requiring any addition or other uninteresting arithmetical operation that slows the game down, and is easy for the GM to interpret.
But I don't know of any medieval fantasy game that uses it.
I don't know about the new one, but the old World of Darkness had the Dark Ages setting.

I know there are some optional supplements if you wanna go full out fantasy, with stats for dragons etc, but its kinda limited.
 
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