What JRPGs have the most compelling or believable story, motives or characterisation?

[Louis_Cypher]

If you ask the internet "what JRPGs have the best story?", or "what JRPGs have the most mature story?", you get a lot of the same recommendations. Reddit-tier lists just run off all the FF games, like there isn't a difference between 'JRPG genre' and 'mainline FF games'. Your mom turns out to be god, but you have to slay her to prevent a global apocalypse, or some shit, is meant to be a 'compelling story'. Mature = Shin Megami Tensei in many folks eyes, because it has tiddies and demons (although some SMT games do qualify). Not credible rational motives. Sometimes better lists might say Suikoden. A lot of us have played those big series extensively, so want something a bit different.

What JRPGs actually have the best story in terms of actual enjoyment, believability, clear motives that are easy to empathise with, etc?

Rules:

• - No mainline Final Fantasy
• - No mainline Shin Megami Tensei or Persona
• - No mainline Dragon Quest

Want: Genuine catharsis, a reason to care about the events. How would you rank Lunar, Legend of Dragoon, or Grandia, or Arc the Lad?

Maybe a Codex "Top 50 JRPG Stories" poll is in order, to counter the clickbait lists online. Please rank many, and I might paste them here.

 

[Maxie]

I think you've lost your way down the storyfag avenue and severely misunderstand why are jRPG stories effective in the first place - it's because they're formulaic and old-fashioned, despite it being trendy for games to be cynical and depressing and subversive and what-not in the west

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I think you've lost your way down the storyfag avenue and severely misunderstand why are jRPG stories effective in the first place - it's because they're formulaic and old-fashioned, despite it being trendy for games to be cynical and depressing and subversive and what-not in the west

I don't mind formulaic or old fashioned.

Literature from the era of 'Chivalric Romance' is more universal than modern stuff. I agree cynicism is degenerate. However I want it to actually make me want to play. That has been my issue with JRPGs for a while now. If I am going to perhaps invest 150 hours in something, I need a reason.

 

[Maxie]

I think you've lost your way down the storyfag avenue and severely misunderstand why are jRPG stories effective in the first place - it's because they're formulaic and old-fashioned, despite it being trendy for games to be cynical and depressing and subversive and what-not in the west

I don't mind formulaic or old fashioned.

Literature from the era of 'Chivalric Romance' is more universal than modern stuff. I agree cynicism is degenerate. However I want it to actually make me want to play. That has been my issue with JRPGs for a while now. If I am going to perhaps invest 150 hours in something, I need a reason.

isn't there a reason more poignant for the human condition at large to be the Hero and defeat Evil? it's not something you will ever do in real irl

 

[Louis_Cypher]

I think you've lost your way down the storyfag avenue and severely misunderstand why are jRPG stories effective in the first place - it's because they're formulaic and old-fashioned, despite it being trendy for games to be cynical and depressing and subversive and what-not in the west

I don't mind formulaic or old fashioned.

Literature from the era of 'Chivalric Romance' is more universal than modern stuff. I agree cynicism is degenerate. However I want it to actually make me want to play. That has been my issue with JRPGs for a while now. If I am going to perhaps invest 150 hours in something, I need a reason.

isn't there a reason more poignant for the human condition at large to be the Hero and defeat Evil? it's not something you will ever do in real irl

Preaching to the choir. I made a thread on this very topic. What we established is that people couldn't even name one Western RPG where a paladin-like hero was 'played straight'. In the genre that Tolkien perfected, nobody had actually taken in the main reason why his work is unmatched; they treat fantasy like 'historical fiction', rather than a spiritual work, with no metaphysical reason to oppose evil whatsoever.

The problem is, a story still needs to make rational sense, even while being about higher themes. Fantasy isn't random. If some character that displayed no particular leanings toward goodness, suddenly switches sides, lets your character out of jail, or you find a magic plot device, that is 'happenstance'. If people suddenly display powers like levitation, you have no idea of the telos of this power, it's just random events.

Likewise, aside from random 'I'll levitate using that crystal' bollocks, a character's hopes and goals must be relatable.

 

[Maxie]

I think you've lost your way down the storyfag avenue and severely misunderstand why are jRPG stories effective in the first place - it's because they're formulaic and old-fashioned, despite it being trendy for games to be cynical and depressing and subversive and what-not in the west

I don't mind formulaic or old fashioned.

Literature from the era of 'Chivalric Romance' is more universal than modern stuff. I agree cynicism is degenerate. However I want it to actually make me want to play. That has been my issue with JRPGs for a while now. If I am going to perhaps invest 150 hours in something, I need a reason.

isn't there a reason more poignant for the human condition at large to be the Hero and defeat Evil? it's not something you will ever do in real irl

Preaching to the choir. I made a thread on this very topic. What we established is that people couldn't even name one Western RPG where a paladin-like hero was 'played straight'. In the genre that Tolkien perfected, nobody had actually taken in the main reason why his work is unmatched; they treat fantasy like 'historical fiction', rather than a spiritual work, with no metaphysical reason to oppose evil whatsoever.

The problem is, a story still needs to make rational sense, even while being about higher themes. Fantasy isn't random. If some character that displayed no particular leanings toward goodness, suddenly switches sides, lets your character out of jail, or you find a magic plot device, that is 'happenstance'. If people suddenly display powers like levitation, you have no idea of the telos of this power, it's just random events.

Likewise, aside from random 'I'll levitate using that crystal' bollocks, a character's hopes and goals must be relatable.

personally I'm a big fan of Trails in the Sky 1, and vehemently oppose the more world-weary criticism some may show towards it. it's a tiny story about a girl and a boy joining a guild of professional do-gooders to make their country a little better. the tone is already very optimistic and warm, which makes all instances of stark evil so much starker in comparison. even the intrigue proper is about stopping a misguided patriot from abusing long-sealed power for all the wrong reasons. the game itself has this meandering anime-style with many, many minor encounters and minor enemies being, generally, more mean-spirited than straight up bad. capital E Evil is played up in the next installments, unfortunately to a varying degree of success

 

[Falksi]

Phantasy Star 4's is pretty groovy. What I like about it is the fact that the protagonists career is the main focus of the game until a turn of events causes him to consider his motivations for that job. Yep, it still end with "we need to kill God", but the journey there is through a very grounded chain of events, and the writing is general quite mature for a JRPG...they even take the piss out of the fact that JRPGs are daft for allowing you to walk into everyone's house.

^Including stuff like "....plus expenses" just grounds the game lovely for me. I can't ever recall any Final Fantasy game doing suchlike? Most of the early-game motivation is purely monetary.

^ I think it just feels more grounded in general too because of the science & environmental elements which it includes.

Another game which is a bit like this is Breath of Fire 2. Again, it's all about making money to start with.

 

[Elttharion]

I am a big fan of the Valkyria Chronicles games. Sure the story takes a more grandiose turn as it progresses but the main motivation of the characters is still to protect their country and their people and see an end to the war.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Trails in the Sky FC's antagonist does have compelling motivations. In fact, he's right (our hostile neighbor is overtaking our military strength and our country's inept leadership is doing jack shit about it, I better take over and build up our defenses before all is lost!), and the protagonists have no rebuttal against him, only saying "uh, you shouldn't protect your country using magic! You just gotta believe in the power of friendship and the human will to overcome invasion by overwhelming military force!". And lo and behold, they are only saved because of magic. Further installments become increasingly ridiculous as the protagonists sabotage their own country's national security and rely on deus ex machinas no one could have possibly anticipated to save the day.

Suikoden and Valkyria Chronicles don't have protagonists sabotaging their own sides, though Suikoden does climax with battles against god monsters and Valkyria Chronicles depicts war with kids gloves. There is also the Tactics games, but I found the stories to be rather dry, and they climax in battles against god monsters.

 

[AndyS]

Want: Genuine catharsis, a reason to care about the events. How would you rank Lunar, Legend of Dragoon, or Grandia, or Arc the Lad?

I can't speak to Dragoon or Arc the Lad, but of Grandia and Lunar, I preferred Grandia. It's very silly in the way anime can be - the heroes are basically just well-meaning kids who save the world through the power of love and friendship - but it's well-executed and the game is unusually well-paced for a JRPG, by which I mean I don't remember doing a lot of deliberate grinding. It's just a charming game overall.

I didn't dislike Lunar, but I can't remember anything that happened in it.

Valkyria Chronicles wasn't bad, although there's a big dramatic moment midway through the game that's so ham-fisted it cracked me the hell up.

 

[Maxie]

Want: Genuine catharsis, a reason to care about the events. How would you rank Lunar, Legend of Dragoon, or Grandia, or Arc the Lad?

I can't speak to Dragoon or Arc the Lad, but of Grandia and Lunar, I preferred Grandia. It's very silly in the way anime can be - the heroes are basically just well-meaning kids who save the world through the power of love and friendship - but it's well-executed and the game is unusually well-paced for a JRPG, by which I mean I don't remember doing a lot of deliberate grinding. It's just a charming game overall.

I didn't dislike Lunar, but I can't remember anything that happened in it.

Valkyria Chronicles wasn't bad, although there's a big dramatic moment midway through the game that's so ham-fisted it cracked me the hell up.

VC4 is far more grounded (and expands on VC1 gameplay, as opposed to previous entries)

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

 

[Falksi]

Recently saw a poll in a Facebook JRPG group as to which had the better story, Chrono Trigger or Planetscape Torment, Chrono Trigger won obviously

There's just no helping some people.

 

[Nutmeg]

Mother 3 was quite excellent w.r.t story, IMO.

 

[Nikanuur]

I don't play jRPGs much, but I always liked Chrono Trigger's goofiness and characters along the ever changing plot going thousands of years to and fro, seeing the events from always a different angle.

 

[Nikanuur]

What's wrong with Chrono Trigger (nobody's saying it's got better characters or story then Planescape here)?

 

[Maxie]

Recently saw a poll in a Facebook JRPG group as to which had the better story, Chrono Trigger or Planetscape Torment, Chrono Trigger won obviously

There's just no helping some people.

yeah, who'd pick pst over chrono trigger? wtf

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Well screw you, I like Final Fantasy 10. Excellent story, characters, and world. Not especially traditional either. How many games involve Polynesian-themed worlds filled with living ghosts? Dragon Quest 5 is quite interesting, where you start as a kid adventuring with your dad and end as a dad adventuring with your kids. No other game has ever done that to my knowledge. Persona 2 is really good, esp. the full story from Sin to Punishment, and Xenogears is a masterpiece.

How would you rank Lunar, Legend of Dragoon, or Grandia, or Arc the Lad?

With Lunar its hard to say since Working Design's translation is a complete farce.

Grandia 1 has a simplistic charm to it but I found the main hero to be insufferable. Never played Dragoon or Arc the Lad.

What's wrong with Chrono Trigger (nobody's saying it's got better characters or story then Planescape here)?

You can't like popular things, it's not cool enough.


To actually answer the question, I suppose Breath of Fire 3 and 4 have some interesting plotlines. Tales of Vesperia has an affable hero who follows the typical save the world path but does so while being extremely cool and never making a big deal out of it; even to the point where the girl is confessing her love for him he's just like, yeah I know, I'm into you too babe, no worries.

 

[Silverfish]

No mainline Final Fantasy

Fair enough.

 

[lightbane]

Breath of Fire 5 is quite grim and has minor anime elements, but it's otherwise a bleak but plausible world.

 

[Nortar]

What JRPGs actually <...> easy to empathise with, etc?

Yakuza 7.
The MC is a jobless bum with a couple of loose screws coz he'd played too much games and spent half his life confined within 4 walls.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I am getting some nice ideas.

So far then the list is something like:

• Phantasy Star IV
• The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky 1
• The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky 2
• The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky 3
• Grandia 1
• Grandia 2
• Valkyria Chronicles 1
• Valkyria Chronicles 4

I think for the sake of the internet I wanna clear up what I consider true "maturity" to be. It ain't neccecarily 'dark'. It ain't neccecarily 'grey'. It's just credible and grounded. There is nothing in maturity that says you can't have "good vs. evil". For 6000 years good vs evil was considered mature storytelling, and 120 years of the "modern novel" ain't gonna change that metaphysical standpoint.

I'm a Traditionalist, of course I want good vs evil in my JRPG. It's the only reason I even bother to enjoy fantasy. True fantasy is metaphysical by nature. Likewise moral ambiguity is not neccecarily maturity. Post-modern "intellectual masturbation" about character development ain't it either. I'm glad many people here understand shonen exhuberance is no less mature than cycical cringewank.

 

[Nutmeg]

Why didn't you include Mother 3?

 

[Maxie]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I am getting some nice ideas.

So far then the list is something like:

• Phantasy Star IV
• The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky 1
• The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky 2
• The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky 3
• Grandia 1
• Grandia 2
• Valkyria Chronicles 1
• Valkyria Chronicles 4

I think for the sake of the internet I wanna clear up what I consider true "maturity" to be. It ain't neccecarily 'dark'. It ain't neccecarily 'grey'. It's just credible and grounded. There is nothing in maturity that says you can't have "good vs. evil". For 6000 years good vs evil was considered mature storytelling, and 120 years of the "modern novel" ain't gonna change that metaphysical standpoint.

I'm a Traditionalist, of course I want good vs evil in my JRPG. It's the only reason I even bother to enjoy fantasy. True fantasy is metaphysical by nature. Likewise moral ambiguity is not neccecarily maturity. Post-modern "intellectual masturbation" about character development ain't it either. I'm glad many people here understand shonen exhuberance is no less mature than cycical cringewank.

TBH dunno if you've already played it but Radiant Historia (the original...) is absolutely fascinating story-wise, and not a cringe subversive story either

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Why didn't you include Mother 3?

I'm only noting down some games I wanna check out personally, for now, so I didn't include Final Fantasy X-2 either. Personally speaking, despite seeing why people like it, I didn't like Earthbound's setting after a few hours play, so will probably give Mother 3 a pass, despite knowing it has a good reputation.

Maturity does not preclude fun; on the contrary I think being comfortable with earnest fun, shonen and exhuberant adventure is very mature. It's just I prefer something a bit more like a romantic sci-fi/fantasy canvas, along the lines of Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, or say Suikoden and Trails in the Sky.