what is this i dont even

[Wyrmlord]

At the same time, I have to say.

The TQ developers are incredible whiners. I am sorry, I know went through a lot of unfair problems that were not their fault.

But geez, this guy once wrote a long diatribe ranting against gamers, against critics, against studios, against publishers, against everybody for why his game flopped. Yes, he had some justifiable reasons for thinking them all stupid, but I wonder why he dwells on things that are out of his hand.

 

[oscar]

Fucking disgusting. Ditch the Suits.

 

[betamin]

Yeaaahhh... about that new game you're making. You are only allowed to use the letter L.

LOL I had to read that in Lumbergh's voice

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

No it's not fucked-up, it's your choice to deal with suits or not. You can go indie and risk losing your shirt or strike gold like that guy from Minecraft. And then you can have relative (relative being the key word) security if you work in an EA-like environment and cater to the retarded desires of all the morons above you. C&C, my friend. And then there's another position which is the best: being your own producer and licencing distribution and marketing to a major while being able to sack the idiots who work on your project if they don't do shit (but being a musician, I don't know if it's the same for videogames), but to be in that case, you have to already have a name or to have engendered a major hype.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

But as I said I don't know if it's the same for musicians or for video game designers because developing efficiently a video game costs a lot more than recording a fucking record (even if it's still pricey if you want good quality of sound).

 

[Marobug]

But as I said I don't know if it's the same for musicians or for video game designers because developing efficiently a video game costs a lot more than recording a fucking record (even if it's still pricey if you want good quality of sound).

This is exactly why I think it's rather unfair that people will go on and bash certain games and developers without first knowing what really happens during development, specially when the usual trolls probably never spent a single cent in a game, let alone the game(s) they are bashing.

 

[thesheeep]

Downright revolting, no wonder I never got into TQ - the game just felt soulless to me.

Same here. I never got far into the game, although IMHO its skills and masteries are far more interesting than anything Diable 2 had to offer. But I could never put a finger on what exactly is missing, why this game failed to "amaze" me. Now I can, at least much better than before.

So for claring things up.

Btw... is that game running the same engine as TQ? The inventory looks strangely similar. (Of course, you could achieve that with a different engine as well.)

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Disgusting.

 

[curry]

I'm sure the Jews know what they are doing

 

[Hobo Elf]

But as I said I don't know if it's the same for musicians or for video game designers because developing efficiently a video game costs a lot more than recording a fucking record (even if it's still pricey if you want good quality of sound).

This is exactly why I think it's rather unfair that people will go on and bash certain games and developers without first knowing what really happens during development, specially when the usual trolls probably never spent a single cent in a game, let alone the game(s) they are bashing.

Why should you have to pay money for the right to shit talk a game?

 

[Serious_Business]

Let's all hold hands in our powerless frustration guys, that's gotta hold up some intensity for at least a while. Let me summon this shit up, I'll be outraged for about 10 seconds and then it'll cool down to the usual levels of utter disgust and apathy.

 

[Gragt]

But as I said I don't know if it's the same for musicians or for video game designers because developing efficiently a video game costs a lot more than recording a fucking record (even if it's still pricey if you want good quality of sound).

This is exactly why I think it's rather unfair that people will go on and bash certain games and developers without first knowing what really happens during development, specially when the usual trolls probably never spent a single cent in a game, let alone the game(s) they are bashing.

I mostly agree with you there. But then why are these people telling us those things now, years after the game was released? Back then, they (well, Michael Fitch mostly) complained about piracy, hardware vendors and the basic user being computer illiterate, which contributed to give a bad reputation to their game, but no one talked of the stupid requests of the publisher. Now they formed a new team and are working on a new game in the same genre as their previous game and then they tell us this. I'm always ready to give the benefit of doubt to developpers and not accuse them of incompetence when there are many factors that could mess the game up before it's done, but at the same time I'm a bit suspicious when the only time I see someone admit that the game had troubles is just before the new game is coming out.

 

[Renegen]

Downright revolting, no wonder I never got into TQ - the game just felt soulless to me.

Ditto.

Interesting to know that there is such a thing as objectivelly looking at a game. I felt the game was too bland, repetitve, souless whatever. A lot of the Codex has said the same thing, and the devs have proved this with anecdotes.

On a deeper level, I wonder why the suits act like this. I think if they gave creative freedom and a game fails, they would be blamed for it. But if they give directions and the game fails, well the game audience is blamed. After all, the suits while in competition with each other, are also part of the same caste. You can't criticize a fellow suit by saying his methods resulted in a game failing when you use the exact same methods.

It's sad that office politics ends up creating this shit.

 

[Marobug]

Why should you have to pay money for the right to shit talk a game?

You don't need to pay anything, it's not about having or not having the right to criticize something, it's a question of morals.
Buying a game and not liking it is one thing, another is pirating the game and then bash it like it's worst thing ever. You can do both, but it's morally wrong to take something that doesn't belong to you and then go and tell everyone you know how shit it is. Some people even talk as if they were ripped off or as if their inteligence was insulted, which in turn is a big "fuck you" to everyone who actually bought the game and specially those who poured a lot of hard work into the game, regardless of how good or how bad the final result was.

I mostly agree with you there. But then why are these people telling us those things now, years after the game was released? Back then, they (well, Michael Fitch mostly) complained about piracy, hardware vendors and the basic user being computer illiterate, which contributed to give a bad reputation to their game, but no one talked of the stupid requests of the publisher. Now they formed a new team and are working on a new game in the same genre as their previous game and then they tell us this. I'm always ready to give the benefit of doubt to developpers and not accuse them of incompetence when there are many factors that could mess the game up before it's done, but at the same time I'm a bit suspicious when the only time I see someone admit that the game had troubles is just before the new game is coming out.

At least in this case I don't think they could speak earlier because they were still bound to their contract with thq and usually you are not allowed to speak about internal affairs/discussions/etc publicly, but even if they were not they are perfectly aware that doing so will only damage severely if not destroy their relation with thq. Doing it now is already pretty surprising, but back then it would be a pretty suicidal move.

 

[Damned Registrations]

It's supposed to be a big 'fuck you'. And even then, it's not as big a 'fuck you' as the one dished out to people who payed for a game trusting that the publishers, devs, game reviewers and various marketing plants weren't lying their asses off.

If calling radiant AI shit is a fuck you to the devs, what is selling radiant ai to loyal fans while calling it awesome? Forced cavity search with a hotsauce enema chaser?

If lying to people on your side is less reprehensible to you than insulting enemies with truthful accusations, you'd make a great politician.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

On a deeper level, I wonder why the suits act like this.

The usual "Oh I know you're the professional here, but I'm the boss so here's what you'll do". Or, more appropriately in this case; "Oh shut up, nerd. We made TESTS. RESEARCH. You know, grown up stuff? No one cares about what you think would be 'cool' or what your fellow nerd players would think it's 'fun'. According to this chart they'll like it anyway, just do what we tell you and we'll sell this thing even to my grandma. CHA-CHING!".

 

[Menckenstein]

This is pretty common. In fact the only example of suits "saving" a game I can think of is Halo.

 

[CappenVarra]

This is fucking retarded.

Of course, I was told we couldn't have snow on the summit because people might not realize it snowed in Greece

WE CANNOT SHOW THINGS HOW THEY REALLY ARE BECAUSE PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE LIKE THAT SO WE HAVE TO MAKE IT LIKE THEY BELIEVE IT TO BE NOT LIKE IT ACTUALLY IS

what is this i dont even

 

[eugene2k]

Really, it's horrible how marketing guys from the publisher, who have no idea about how to make games, tell the developers, whose job is it to make games and who have a vision for a good game they want to make, that they should include thing X but may not include thing Y because LOL THE AUDIENCE WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND.

Well it's actually the job of marketers to know what customers want. Of course, the guys at THQ appear to be absolute retards in that aspect.

If you think about it, it's actually hard to measure what kind of game will have a better ROI, and a games company ultimate goal is to have the highest ROI. I guess the best thing, for a gamedev studio, would be to combine the game designers with the marketing one way or another, so that the game designers would ultimately make the choice on what kind of gameplay would be best, but their decision could be based on the research into what it is that players actually want, rather than on what the publisher or what the game designer wants to play.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

well bro think of it as the same reasoning that shotguns should throw people through plate glass when fired and car engines exploding in huge gasoline clouds except now applied to environments which means something like a game set in switzerland should be filled with ski lifts and mountains with attractive blonde people speaking english sorta funny

conforming to the limits of reality is a barrier for consumer satisfaction

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

If you think about it, it's actually hard to measure what kind of game will have a better ROI, and a games company ultimate goal is to have the highest ROI. I guess the best thing, for a gamedev studio, would be to combine the game designers with the marketing one way or another, so that the game designers would ultimately make the choice on what kind of gameplay would be best, but their decision could be based on the research into what it is that players actually want, rather than on what the publisher or what the game designer wants to play.

If there's no project director with a strong vision, then the game will be a bland mess that tries to cater to everyone's tastes and as the result spreads itself too thin.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

If there's no project director with a strong vision, then the game will be a bland mess that tries to cater to everyone's tastes and as the result spreads itself too thin.

in Spore's case the result became almost homeopathic in concentration

leading to players saying they experienced sensations related to gameplay where in fact there were none

even though making gameplay extremely diluted was in fact improving the game contrary to conservative game design views

 

[sea]

This reminds me of that one indie game a while back, Joe Danger, that was denied by publishers for a slew of completely idiotic reasons. Some of the gems include:

“Name me one popular game with motorbikes?”

”Collecting giant coins feels unrealistic to me”

”I can see this working as a Facebook app”

”We want games that are less about fun right now”

”We love the theme, but with a different game”

”We believe the iPhone will be largely unsupported”

”Can Joe be a monkey? We like Monkeys”

Yep. Welcome to the future of gaming, gents. If the main character isn't a monkey, it's just not fit for the market.

 

[Shannow]

It's supposed to be a big 'fuck you'. And even then, it's not as big a 'fuck you' as the one dished out to people who payed for a game trusting that the publishers, devs, game reviewers and various marketing plants weren't lying their asses off.

If calling radiant AI shit is a fuck you to the devs, what is selling radiant ai to loyal fans while calling it awesome? Forced cavity search with a hotsauce enema chaser?

If lying to people on your side is less reprehensible to you than insulting enemies with truthful accusations, you'd make a great politician.

Thanks for sparing me the need to reply to Marobug's nonsense.

 

[Marobug]

It's supposed to be a big 'fuck you'. And even then, it's not as big a 'fuck you' as the one dished out to people who payed for a game trusting that the publishers, devs, game reviewers and various marketing plants weren't lying their asses off.

Yes, and then you realize you are pointing your middle finger in the wrong direction because the liars are everyone but those who actually made the game.
Of course some devs in higher positions also hype up their games sometimes, but even those usually do so because they are forced to contractually by their publisher. The devs only get a very very tiny fraction of the sales for a game, they have little interest in lying, publishers on the hand need to get their investment back and will spit shit as long as they think that will sell a few more copies.
If there's someone purposely fooling their clients that would be them.