Weapon Degardation: Yea or nay?

[Andhaira]

In your ideal rpg, how would weapon degradation be handled? Would you like it to be implemented as in the Realms of Arkania series, or would you want your weapons to be shiny new no matter how much you used them, as in Baldurs Gate?

For myself I prefer the former, Realms of Arkania style. It gives you a reason to lust after money so you can actually use it and buy stuff that you need. Plus its realistic without being a pain.

Disucss!!

 

[Hobo Elf]

As long as it's nothing like it was in Oblivion.

 

[Phelot]

I liked JA2 weapon degrading. Basically, anything you find would be shit and rusty until you repaired it, then afterwards it rarely degrades so long as it isn't in explosions and such.

 

[entertainer]

I liked JA2 weapon degrading. Basically, anything you find would be shit and rusty until you repaired it, then afterwards it rarely degrades so long as it isn't in explosions and such.

 

[Sander]

I haven't played a game with degradation done right. Most of the time it just represents a time sink and money sink, and a minor annoyance that doesn't actually add anything to the game.

 

[Haba]

I for one, think that weapons should not degard without regard to player enjoyement.

Also, disucss is out of the question.

 

[Castanova]

If you weapon degrades just by using it, I think that's pretty stupid. As has been mentioned, it's just a way to get the player to spend money. However, weapon degradation due to the environment or events during combat can be alright. For example, NetHack - if you attack an acid blob with a metal object, it is likely to degrade.

 

[Sander]

If you weapon degrades just by using it, I think that's pretty stupid. As has been mentioned, it's just a way to get the player to spend money. However, weapon degradation due to the environment or events during combat can be alright. For example, NetHack - if you attack an acid blob with a metal object, it is likely to degrade.

That wasn't a minor annoyance, that was a huge fucking pain in the ass. Walking along, then suddenly encountering an acid blob and whoops, there goes your awesome magical weapon. Rust monsters were even worse.

It definitely forced you to pay attention, though.

 

[Haba]

O.k., a serious reply in a non-serious thread.

(RPG) games shouldn't have magic weapons. Sword is a tool like the rest of them. It'll wear down and break at an inconvenient time. If you take out variables like weapon wear and possibility of being disarmed, the game becomes just repetition of the same 'ol.

And you are likely to grow an unhealthy obsession to your magic sword.

I do prefer spontaneous weapon breakdowns over to linearly degrading weapons though (i.e. you sharpen your sword so that it still cuts, but even a sharp sword can break in certain situations).

 

[Squeek]

I also enjoyed how it was done in Realms of Arkania. It's been a long time, but I remember feeling a sense of satisfaction from knowing I had my weapons in top shape. That makes sense for normal weapons, anyway. Magical ones are another story, I think.

If an RPG were to work the way I imagine, magic weapons would be rare and distinct and would each have individual needs that fit with their character. An assassin's blade might need to taste innocent blood from time to time or a paladin's might need to exact justice upon the wicked.

The way I see it, in a world where legacy and destiny can embody a weapon, there ought to be potential for conflict between its story and the story of any adventurer who might attempt to wield it.

 

[Zomg]

I'd really like to see various experimental measures taken to dilute the concept of "the kit", the shell of lewt and junk that every PC/NPC is wearing for every second of every day and is a completely integrated extension of himself. I can think of a lot of ways to do it, and weapon degradation could be a part.

I'm pretty impressed that you spelled "yea" right even if you made a typo dude

 

[DriacKin]

If an RPG were to work the way I imagine, magic weapons would be rare and distinct and would each have individual needs that fit with their character. An assassin's blade might need to taste innocent blood from time to time or a paladin's might need to exact justice upon the wicked.

That sounds kinda nice... But it could easily result in a lot of micro-management if you have more than 2-3 magic items.

 

[Phelot]

If an RPG were to work the way I imagine, magic weapons would be rare and distinct and would each have individual needs that fit with their character. An assassin's blade might need to taste innocent blood from time to time or a paladin's might need to exact justice upon the wicked.

That sounds kinda nice... But it could easily result in a lot of micro-management if you have more than 2-3 magic items.

That might be a good thing though since it would limit power playing and make some weapons not worth it for certain characters.

 

[Panthera]

In my experience, it takes quite a few knocks to put enough notches into a steel sword to make it need attention. This can be dozens of fights. There's no reason that care and attention to the blade can't be lumped into the downtime that occurs whenever the party rests. That includes standard maintenance like using emery to remove the rust and oiling (waxing) it.

Actual breaks do happen, but it's usually either broken or not, not a steady process. Or if it is, there's not much way to tell until it breaks. The most common occurrence is the blade separating at the tang. It makes sense to me to have a chance of that happening. This is easily repaired by a blacksmith.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

...or would you want your weapons to be shiny new no matter how much you used them, as in Baldurs Gate?

Obviously you never played the first game.

 

[New Wave Guru]

I'd rather have it go the other way. Instead of gradually degrading while you use it, your weapon gets stronger with every hit. Eventually its bloodlust will become so insatiable that you'll have to damage yourself during downtime to prevent it from slaughtering the entire world.

 

[Luckmann]

I'd rather have it go the other way. Instead of gradually degrading while you use it, your weapon gets stronger with every hit. Eventually its bloodlust will become so insatiable that you'll have to damage yourself during downtime to prevent it from slaughtering the entire world.

Makes sense.

 

[Pliskin]

I'd rather have it go the other way. Instead of gradually degrading while you use it, your weapon gets stronger with every hit. Eventually its bloodlust will become so insatiable that you'll have to damage yourself during downtime to prevent it from slaughtering the entire world.

Makes sense.

Only if yr an inter- dimension travelling albino elf aristocrat.

 

[Squeek]

I'd rather have it go the other way. Instead of gradually degrading while you use it, your weapon gets stronger with every hit. Eventually its bloodlust will become so insatiable that you'll have to damage yourself during downtime to prevent it from slaughtering the entire world.

Myself, I wouldn't take it that far, but I like the general idea of magic weapons having a maximum potential, one that could only be reached by employing them properly.

So you might need to make one kind of persistent effort to keep ordinary weapons from becoming less effective and another to enable magic weapons to become more effective. And that effort may or may not be acceptable to your character, according to his role.

That doesn't sound all that far-fetched to me. It could add to the intrigue, having to try to figure out what purpose your magic weapon was created to serve.

 

[denizsi]

Linear degrading based on character skill, sometimes hidden from the player, and spontaneous break as a result.

How you use and maintain, or fail to use and maintain equipment (weapons, armor, shields, tools) would be an important factor. In combat, how poorly you use weapon/shield/armor against an opponent who uses his/her weapon proficiently against your weapon/shield/armor, your skill against his, would obviously speed up the process of degrading, as well as using tools poorly on or against quality stuff also would.

If you can't handle and use any given equipment properly, proficiently, it could degrade faster than otherwise. You, being inexperienced, probably wouldn't notice this, or you'd notice <i>some</i> degrading, but can't tell its actual condition, and when you least expect it, it's broken. Or horribly chipped, or stuck, unusable etc. No "Oh, it's 5/99, so I better get it repaired soon). If you neglect it, be prepared for the worst. Character skill is the key.

Micromanagement is terribly boring, though, so I'd add relevant options to the rest/sleep/travel menu. Options for whether to check & do maintenance for equipment, which costs extra resting time or slowed down travel, along other options irrelevant to the subject (whether to camp properly, hastily or at all; with or without fire, to eat, to gather & hunt, to sleep taking turns in case of a party or companions, to travel cautiously (more apt to notice ambushes, traps, tracks and other points of interest) or recklessly (the oppopsite) etc.).

Depending on the setting and the specific details, there could even be a separate skill that covers weapon maintenance, along with some other basic stuff.

For a present day / PA setting, I would add basic training skill or perk for firearms, that deals with fundamentals, maintenance and mechanics behind firearms and and maybe small blades (kind of like police/army training, I guess), so with a basic training skill or perk, you'd better equipped to maintain, fix and modify weapons.

The same could be done with a swords setting as well (for instance, I didn't always know that people with plate armor back when it was the shit among the rich or the talented with sponsors, they carried the sets buried in sand in barrels or the pieces would corrode, degrade etc. Just an example). Either as a separate/complimentary skill or a perk as part of various skills.

 

[DriacKin]

I don't really think spontaneous breaks would really be that great an idea.
It sounds nice and might add some realism, but...

I don't know about you, but if I was playing an RPG and my really valuable uber sword just randomly 'broke', I'd just reload the previous savegame and redo the fight.
I imagine that most of you would likely do the same. This would just become tedious and and annoyance.

Of course, I'm assuming that broken weapons are permanently broken and can't be repaired.

 

[mondblut]

Breaking is fine if not taken to absurd levels. Betrayal at Krondor had it right. More often than not, particularly early in the game, it was more convenient to grab the stuff from a fresh kill than trying to fix your own which was in worse condition.

 

[Micmu]

Item durability- yay!
There should be a textual description of the item's condition, not number. Also, repairing should take time so you'd either have to wait or use backup equipment for the time being (if NPC repairs it).
See: Ultima Underworld

 

[Chefe]

I don't really think spontaneous breaks would really be that great an idea.
It sounds nice and might add some realism, but...

I don't know about you, but if I was playing an RPG and my really valuable uber sword just randomly 'broke', I'd just reload the previous savegame and redo the fight.
I imagine that most of you would likely do the same. This would just become tedious and and annoyance.

Of course, I'm assuming that broken weapons are permanently broken and can't be repaired.

Why would you not reload even if the broken item could be repaired? Chances are, you've spent a considerable amount of time obtaining that really valuable uber sword (either questing for it or crafting it through various means) for situations such as the one you currently find yourself in. If it just breaks and you're forced to fight the rest of the battle with nothing but your bare knuckles or a swiss army knife, then what is the point? And if the swiss army knife can kill the creature, then all the uber weapon really does is decrease the amount of time you spend in fights. If you can't kill the creature with the swiss army knife, then it means you need to reload or else you're royally fucked since most games don't have good escape mechanics.

Now, would it be interesting if you were fighting some behemoth ubermensch and had your iron sword break, so you had to use some chains lying around, lose bricks, and the dungeon environment to defeat it? Yes. But that's an iron sword. And that is in a game where the alternative would have to be technically possible as an emergent gameplay mechanic and not some designer intended QTE.

I mostly dislike item durability when it comes to blunt weapons (except axes :wink. You should have to sharpen your sword, mend your bow, or replace a spear shaft. Not after every fight, but once in a while. And there needs to be real alternatives that discourage reloading if a weapon breaks. Maybe you get more exp for finding other ways?

Part of this post was intended at the topic in general and not just at you, DK.

 

[Turok]

In your ideal rpg, how would weapon degradation be handled? Would you like it to be implemented as in the Realms of Arkania series, or would you want your weapons to be shiny new no matter how much you used them, as in Baldurs Gate?

For myself I prefer the former, Realms of Arkania style. It gives you a reason to lust after money so you can actually use it and buy stuff that you need. Plus its realistic without being a pain.

Disucss!!

I like both systems, i mean if is a generic weapon, if it degrade i got no problem with it because there is always tons of those generics weapon that i can salvage, but if the weapon is lets say a Silver sword or some famous weapon like musarama i like the always sharp because those weapon are unique, of course if posible not to find this weapons on the begining of the game because it can kill any micro managent that i really enjoy.