Warcraft III: Reforged - now with lowest user metacritic score of all time

[Average Manatee]

WC2 campaign maps are definitely heavily navy focused. You have to conquer your island and then spam dreadnaughts/battleships to clean up the seas and land your stuff (the dragons/gryphons unlock in the final few missions and can handle things there though). If you're looking at expansion its a lot less IIRC and obviously the multiplayer maps are usually land.

Just checked and past map 2 there's only 3 Orc and 3 Human missions that don't require building a navy. That's 9 out of 14 missions in each campaign including tutorial missions that require a navy. And one on each side is a mission with no base building so it doesn't really matter either.

Did they ever fix custom campaigns in Reforged? That was one of the things that was still broken even if you play in the non-raped mode because its the backend reforged engine that fucks it up.

 

[Lacrymas]

Did they ever fix custom campaigns in Reforged? That was one of the things that was still broken even if you play in the non-raped mode because its the backend reforged engine that fucks it up.

It depends on what was broken. Atm, it's possible to make a campaign and play through it normally (as attested by Chronicles of the Second War). There are quite a lot of bugs, though, but I'm not sure which are due to the campaign or the game itself.

 

[Average Manatee]

The big thing I recall was custom music being fucked and playing the wrong tracks. Also multiple campaigns couldn't communicate data between them, you had to manually fuck with files to get campaigns to load data from other campaigns whenever you transferred over.

 

[Average Manatee]

Tried chronicles of the second war but apparently it only supports reforged.

 

[Lacrymas]

Tried chronicles of the second war but apparently it only supports reforged.

Yeah, it has a bunch of custom/imported models (most of the models actually) that don't exist in the original. Which is unfortunate.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The majority of WC2's and its expansion's campaign maps are heavily water-based, requiring a lot of tedious ferrying of troops around and building a fleet beforehand to destroy ships and shipyards.

Lmao what a weakling post.

 

[DoWhocares]

The majority of WC2's and its expansion's campaign maps are heavily water-based, requiring a lot of tedious ferrying of troops around and building a fleet beforehand to destroy ships and shipyards.

Lmao what a weakling post.

Far be it from me to agree with Lacrymas but he's right, you know. Ships are a net negative for WC2 no matter how you look at it. Especially frustrating is how ships fit in 6 units, but control groups contain 9. The one time where 69 is not nice.

 

[ind33d]

What was so important about Warcraft 3 that they had to go back and ruin it like Stalin photoshopping out his ex girlfriends?

 

[Lacrymas]

Warcraft 2 is still being played competitively online, there are vids uploaded regularly on YouTube, so you can easily see that the vast, vaaast majority of games are played on land maps. If navies were such a good addition, that wouldn't be the case.

 

[Average Manatee]

The majority of WC2's and its expansion's campaign maps are heavily water-based, requiring a lot of tedious ferrying of troops around and building a fleet beforehand to destroy ships and shipyards.

Lmao what a weakling post.

Naval combat is just boring. You spam the strongest ship that is unlocked and you really quickly win because the AI is not that aggressive about building up a navy. A group of 9 ships with a few replacements is all you need. Then in most maps your ships can pretty much pick apart the enemy bases and defenders without much danger so that your landing party easily wins.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not only boring and tedious, it also essentially doubles the amount of time you spend on a mission for no reason.

 

[Average Manatee]

So I bit the bullet and decided to figure out how to get pre-reforged WC3 to play some custom campaigns. Ended up being easy, I thought I'd have to use some unpatch utility but you can actually just download it here. Enter in your 22 year old CD key and it works. Somehow my CD Keys.Doc file has survived all this time through all my PC upgrades. Sadly it means no grid layout but it makes things actually work so... yeah.

I have to say I think I'm a bit spoiled by Wanderers of Sorceria, even the few highest rated campaigns I've tried are far behind it in terms of gameplay, atmosphere, and writing. Plus it has an absolute ton of custom music, graphics, skills, races, etc. Any recommendations of very high quality polished campaigns you guys have?

 

[Demo.Graph]

Any recommendations of very high quality polished campaigns you guys have?

There's nothing out there that can be compared to WoS.

Come to think of it, even WoS can't be compared to WoS. I've liked the old versions, where Hikaru was Arthas*, Ziel was Medivh* and Kanna was that-elven-almost-hero-chick-but-with-naginata. In later versions all hero models are too animu-looking and differ in style from generic units too much.

 

[Average Manatee]

Come to think of it, even WoS can't be compared to WoS. I've liked the old versions, where Hikaru was Arthas*, Ziel was Medivh* and Kanna was that-elven-almost-hero-chick-but-with-naginata. In later versions all hero models are too animu-looking and differ in style from generic units too much.

Old Blizzard's ability to make a consistent style of model that all looks so good together is pretty much impossible to replicate by a bunch of disparate modders (and also by new Blizzard). I think its still kind of charming even if they don't all fit perfectly. It's clear that the dev has gotten better over time... with the unfortunate result that some of the important characters having been done first are stuck with lower quality models as a result.

Also the newest version has a LOT of new missions and content that I don't remember before. So that's cool. Although I recall a lot of the characters had 4 or so class options that don't seem to be present now. Removed? I remember some of them were... a bit badly balanced (in the wrong direction, like being stuck with having either no replacement for holy light on Hikaru/Nekurow or a really bad one). Maybe its NG+ limited so that you know what you're getting into?

 

[n0denz]

Naval combat is just boring. You spam the strongest ship that is unlocked and you really quickly win because the AI is not that aggressive about building up a navy. A group of 9 ships with a few replacements is all you need. Then in most maps your ships can pretty much pick apart the enemy bases and defenders without much danger so that your landing party easily wins.

As opposed to what? APN micro autism? I miss when RTS's were fun.

 

[Storyfag]

APN micro autism?

That'd be ADHD, actually.

 

[catfood]

Naval combat is just boring. You spam the strongest ship that is unlocked and you really quickly win because the AI is not that aggressive about building up a navy. A group of 9 ships with a few replacements is all you need. Then in most maps your ships can pretty much pick apart the enemy bases and defenders without much danger so that your landing party easily wins.

As opposed to what? APN micro autism? I miss when RTS's were fun.

As opposed to good mission design a la for example Starcraft.

 

[MerchantKing]

The majority of WC2's and its expansion's campaign maps are heavily water-based, requiring a lot of tedious ferrying of troops around and building a fleet beforehand to destroy ships and shipyards.

Lmao what a weakling post.

Far be it from me to agree with Lacrymas but he's right, you know. Ships are a net negative for WC2 no matter how you look at it. Especially frustrating is how ships fit in 6 units, but control groups contain 9. The one time where 69 is not nice.

No. Ships are great. I love sailing the high seas. It's where I get all my games!

 

[Lyric Suite]

Warcraft 2 entire story centers on a naval invasion. It's right in the intro cinematic.

 

[Malakal]

Naval combat is just boring. You spam the strongest ship that is unlocked and you really quickly win because the AI is not that aggressive about building up a navy. A group of 9 ships with a few replacements is all you need. Then in most maps your ships can pretty much pick apart the enemy bases and defenders without much danger so that your landing party easily wins.

As opposed to what? APN micro autism? I miss when RTS's were fun.

As opposed to good mission design a la for example Starcraft.

I hated Starcraft terran campaigns for being very tvt focused in a game where you have three distinct races as a selling point... plenty of bad missions too. So not so sure about that.

 

[Alex]

Warcraft 2 entire story centers on a naval invasion. It's right in the intro cinematic.

Sure, but it does overstay its welcome a bit. Especially since the gameplay feels a bit bland. Maybe naval gameplay would have worked better with a larger scale?

 

[Harthwain]

You guys think naval transports in Warcraft 2 are bad? Try transporting units in Starcraft 1, where each unit has its own "weight" (so you can only fit two tanks into a single dropship, for example). Frankly, transporting troops in Warcraft 2 is fairly easy. You get control of the beach with your armada, then disembark under its cover by using 3 or 4 transports. With each transport being able to carry 6 units it is not that hard, especially if you use better quality ones.

 

[Average Manatee]

You don't need to transport units in Starcraft often. Usually just an airforce can win all maps if its necessary. Only Zerg really lacks a super air unit that can be massed to easily run over everything.

It's not that Warcraft 2 is hard, it's that its tedious and drags out every map. Make 9 ships->win naval war->sit around the coast shooting everything for a few minutes->land 18 knights and you win.

 

[Storyfag]

Only Zerg really lacks a super air unit that can be massed to easily run over everything.

Guardians? Granted, you need Mutalisk/Devourer escorts.

 

[Average Manatee]

Only Zerg really lacks a super air unit that can be massed to easily run over everything.

Guardians? Granted, you need Mutalisk/Devourer escorts.

It works but its a bit more awkward. I don't really remember maps where you need air or air transport anyway tbh. Most zerg missions are easily winnable by just spamming hydralisks.