Warcraft 3 normal or hard?

[Jezal_k23]

Anyone playing this nowadays? I just beat the RoC campaign on hard, without cheesing the final NE mission. What a fucked up mission though. I did what I consider an amazing job defending the human base (28 min left) and then the orc base (10 min left), and when the time came to defend my own base the undead started producing units so fast that I didn't feel like I was fighting waves anymore, rather it was a constant stream of bullshit enemy units and their heroes upon me. When the timer reached 3 minutes I was genuinely not sure I'd be able to hold out that long.

Admittedly I had to save and reload a few times, as much as I'd like to win it without doing this, but I don't think I could do it. Anyway this was really exhausting but satisfying. I also never slowed down the speed of the game throughout the campaign. Going to start TFT tomorrow on hard, which I hear is much worse than RoC. I have no idea what to expect now, and I'm wondering if it can really be that much worse than RoC already got with missions like Under the Burning Sky (final Undead mission) or Twilight of the Gods (final NE mission), or, FUCK, the 3rd NE mission which was the most annoying in the game for me to do (the one which you have to beat before the undead cut down 100 trees).

 

[Irenaeus II]

I didn't find TFT much worse than RoC. Actually, I think it was about the same, good. I played them 10 years ago, tho...

 

[Average Manatee]

TFT doesn't really have any missions like the RoC missions where you just have an unstoppable horde bearing down on you, but it tries to have more tricky missions (though they are still easier overall IMO). Except the first undead mission, that one is hell.

 

[Khorne]

Hunting the hidden tomes makes the late game missions trivial, since they give permanent stats.
They're all over the place, inside buildings, crates, on top of walls, etc.
There are some hidden rare items, like mask of death and necklace of spell immunity, which helps a lot in the long run.
I know the game inside out, don't want to spoil it, so I'll just put this thing in tags.

Spoiler

Nelf mission with the runner, teleportation staff is at the first miner - must be rushed on hard, and top left corner of the map there's a hidden rat immune to magic with 100% evasion, kill it with a glaive thrower and it drops evasion item.
First undead mission, one of the horses at the barracks drops armor ring, attack trees with ghouls, kill the hidden golem, it will drop a bracer +3.
First bloodelf mission, burn trees north of the starting point, burn a single tree on the beach, kill the bird that flies over it and it drops the mage robes.
Secret tower defense mission, there are expensive items all over the map which you can sell in the shop and build more towers.
Last bloodelf mission, the assassin hero with the right items can clear at least half the map, and you can go over the upkeep limit by rescuing prisoners after you've reached the cap.

 

[Jasede]

Never knew about those. Man, WC 3 was really well designed. The missions were so varied!

 

[Irenaeus II]

I still can't believe that shitty cartoony MMO ruined this fun franchise. Well, at least they got rich and I was entertained from 2002-2003... Life goes on, to better games.

 

[Khorne]

Map design used to be a piece of art back then, something to explore, and it gave you freedom to choose your own approach.
Today they just put everything on rails, almost like they cba to put some more effort into maps.
I don't know, maybe it's just people that changed, and they're happy with zeratul mission type which can only have one approach.
There's nothing but decline since battlenet 2.0 and just when you start to think it cannot sink any deeper, that goddamn film they're now producing will prove you wrong.
BTW, I got some more stuff to share that I forgot to mention in my previous post.

Spoiler

The screens from first nelf mission, where you can find (4) hidden blink spots with hidden tomes and equipment.

Last one is the rat from runner mission I was talking about. I would never find it if someone didn't show it to me long time ago.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Those graphics were gorgeous. Cartoons done right.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Anyone playing this nowadays? I just beat the RoC campaign on hard, without cheesing the final NE mission. What a fucked up mission though. I did what I consider an amazing job defending the human base (28 min left) and then the orc base (10 min left), and when the time came to defend my own base the undead started producing units so fast that I didn't feel like I was fighting waves anymore, rather it was a constant stream of bullshit enemy units and their heroes upon me. When the timer reached 3 minutes I was genuinely not sure I'd be able to hold out that long.

Admittedly I had to save and reload a few times, as much as I'd like to win it without doing this, but I don't think I could do it. Anyway this was really exhausting but satisfying. I also never slowed down the speed of the game throughout the campaign. Going to start TFT tomorrow on hard, which I hear is much worse than RoC. I have no idea what to expect now, and I'm wondering if it can really be that much worse than RoC already got with missions like Under the Burning Sky (final Undead mission) or Twilight of the Gods (final NE mission), or, FUCK, the 3rd NE mission which was the most annoying in the game for me to do (the one which you have to beat before the undead cut down 100 trees).

I remember the first NE mission, I had to use the invincibility cheat code because I couldn't figure out how to beat the Paladin with only just archers.

But what a good story. Once you end the mission the undead suddenly show up and its the apocalypse starting on your enemies. It was pretty good at not polarizing, great set up for a faction based MMO. Too bad it was too successful and it went from being an interlude with low key events to replacing Warcraft entirely story wise.

 

[Average Manatee]

Hunting the hidden tomes makes the late game missions trivial, since they give permanent stats.
They're all over the place, inside buildings, crates, on top of walls, etc.
There are some hidden rare items, like mask of death and necklace of spell immunity, which helps a lot in the long run.
I know the game inside out, don't want to spoil it, so I'll just put this thing in tags.

Spoiler

Nelf mission with the runner, teleportation staff is at the first miner - must be rushed on hard, and top left corner of the map there's a hidden rat immune to magic with 100% evasion, kill it with a glaive thrower and it drops evasion item.
First undead mission, one of the horses at the barracks drops armor ring, attack trees with ghouls, kill the hidden golem, it will drop a bracer +3.
First bloodelf mission, burn trees north of the starting point, burn a single tree on the beach, kill the bird that flies over it and it drops the mage robes.
Secret tower defense mission, there are expensive items all over the map which you can sell in the shop and build more towers.
Last bloodelf mission, the assassin hero with the right items can clear at least half the map, and you can go over the upkeep limit by rescuing prisoners after you've reached the cap.

I can't hardly say that the tomes make the missions trivial. +150 health and +6 damage for a hero isn't exactly groundbreaking.

Stuff like the +15 shadow orb, mask of death, and anything that stacks auras on your armies, those were powerful and preserving them across extra missions by transferring them over to the right characters was quite beneficial.

Not that the tomes aren't fun just for completionists sake.

 

[Khorne]

I can't hardly say that the tomes make the missions trivial. +150 health and +6 damage for a hero isn't exactly groundbreaking.

It is different in TFT, in ROC you get a few +1 tomes and they don't skew the balance much.
Expansion brings them to another level, you get +50 hp tomes, +1 and +2 all stats tome, and +2 tomes are common loot.
They are everywhere, spider eggs, murloc huts, and footman tents. It's way more than just 150 hp in total, they give you armor, regen and attack speed.

Spoiler

Example of affecting the late game is A'Noob'Arak the bug hero, what I do is feed him every tome except INT.
He gets instantly mana burned in last mission anyway so INT is not worth it, but all the tomes and dual armor rings +5/+4 make him an immovable wall.
It's because hero armor type and flat percentage, so agility tomes and rings boost his reduction for 25-45%, depending on how much armor you have stacked.
This makes it trivial to just bait the enemy with him, soak the initial burst, and attack from the rear, without losing expensive units.
Without the tomes he's just a pushover, initial burst will kill him unless you constantly spam death coil to keep him alive.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I had played TFT before on normal but from reading what you guys are saying I missed a lot of stuff. I'll keep your hints in mind. Actually played the first NE mission today, and explored the most I could of the map, found the blink spots with the tomes, items and stuff. This game really is amazing fun.

 

[Cadmus]

W3 was really good, too bad it fucked up the graphics style for all the succeeding games.
I played on normal and it was really well balanced from what I remember, but I'm not good at strategies

 

[Malakal]

I played both the base game and the expansion on hard and didnt find most tomes/hidden secrets and still didnt have issues with the campaign, only had to replay a few missions. It was a very good game tho.

I'll never forgive Blizzard for murdering the setting for WoW.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Just beat the first undead mission in TFT, "King Arthas". By far the hardest mission I've done in TFT so far, the second toughest being the last one in the NE campaign, "The Brothers Stormrage". The hardest mission in the Human campaign was the second to last one, "Gates of the Abyss", but that was not very hard in comparison to a few missions in the NE campaign and, of course, the 1st undead mission.

Overall I thought the TFT NE campaign was a big spike of difficulty upwards in comparison to RoC, and then the Human campaign was not nearly as tough. The undead campaign started with this hellish mission though, so perhaps it's gonna be the hardest campaign in both games.

Also, this game is fucking fun. And I think I'm gonna do SC1 + BW next.

 

[Maculo]

On hard, I actually found the final NE mission to be a lot easier than the earlier missions. I barely had the patience to do the first Undead mission on hard. If you haven't, you may want to give the Rexar campaign a try. I remember that being rather entertaining at times.

For SC, I also would give the extra campaign (with the Dark Templar villain) a try. I found the finale of that campaign series to be one of the hardest.

Spoiler

The EMP every minute really sucked, especially when the enemy could field both Siege Tanks and Reavers

 

[Andhaira]

Warcraft 1 was the best warcraft. Simple Hoomans vs Orcs; human wizard's Rain of Fire spell was OP as hell. Graphics were sweet, game was balanced, and you could play as either of the two factions.

WII was a fantastic sequel, but I preferred the simplicity of 1 to the tons of new troops/units of II. But that's a matter of taste; they had some really cool ideas, like elves having elven vision allowing them to see farther than other units, the flying goblin machines, the ships, etc. Deathknight was OP as heck though.

WIII was gay.

 

[pippin]

I remember the final Undead mission as the hardest of the game too; I just gave up and accepted the idea of the final Night Elves mission to be some sort of "last man standing" type of deal.
Turtling would help in the Undead mission (at least it worked for me and that's what matters), but no matter how or what you do, the final NE mission is jus a constant flow of shit thrown at you, like it has been said before.

 

[Maculo]

The final NE mission did not feel so bad, once you took out the undead base below NE/Malfurion. Otherwise the only undead base that put up much of a fight was the central red base. The AI, however, was retarded and just charged into a line of towers, which allowed easy clean up of the rest.

Although I typically loath HD releases (HoMM 3), I would enjoy an HD version of WC1 and WC2.

 

[Average Manatee]

I remember final NE TFT mission being quite easy. Naga were OP and Malfurion had Tranquility which is pretty good at making you take zero losses against the AI with decent micro.

Also protip: You can transfer items from Malfurion to Illidan over a cliff to take them into the human campaign. And if you want to be really cheesy you can dupe items by replaying the previous mission before they split up and handing the items to someone else. My Illidan had dual shadow orbs +10, Staff of Negation, Claws of Attack +15, Mask of Death, and Crown of Kings.

 

[Jezal_k23]

The fuck? If only I'd known that. Would've been fun.

That said though, it would have been fairly unnecessary in the alliance campaign. It was relatively easy.

 

[Khorne]

If you haven't, you may want to give the Rexar campaign a try. I remember that being rather entertaining at times.

That's a RPG with some RTS elements, it possibly triggered WoW and the mmorpg genre itself.
I've replayed it not so long ago, and I find Act I the most interesting part because it's designed in such a way that it can basically play itself.
Didn't even realize this previously, but then one day I was curious about random drops on exterior map and then it hit me.
It can be automated without 3rd party tools, all you need is in game; auto-attack, passive regeneration items, health fountains, and patrol command.
So I went and set up different patrol waypoints for all 3 heroes, each one having to pass the fountain at some point, and left the game running for the night.
In the morning there was so many items on the ground I didn't even bother to pick them up. Though I learned many things after this simple automation test, for example:
Spawn has no end on this map, creep packs have different loot tables and only drop certain items so it's possible to find 20x ring in one area and 20x bracer in another.
Some creeps in the southern part commonly drop INT tomes, while dragons rarely drop STR tomes. I'd probably have to dig through mpq to find out more about the tables.
I do sometimes wonder where is the limit, does the game crash at some point or it can be infinitely farmed for years.

 

[Maculo]

That is really interesting. I knew the creeps respawned, but I did not think about the randomized drops. I really enjoyed act 1 for "taming the land" aspect of the quests. I think that aspect is part of why I enjoyed vanilla Wow before it became about stopping the ultimate evil every expansion.

 

[Don Peste]

Any decent WoW maps/mods for Warcraft 3?
Anyone tried these?

http://www.moddb.com/mods/warcraft-iv
http://www.moddb.com/mods/world-of-warcraft-the-frozen-throne

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

what? Like WoW RPGs? Or more campaigns?