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KickStarter Voxel Quest - voxel-based roguelike RPG and engine

Gavan Woolery

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I kickstarted this hoping for a procedurally generated Crusader: No Remorse roguelike. Looks like its drifting further away from that aesthetic.

This aesthetic is still doable, and in fact will be the default look of the game. The shot below is not angled like your traditional isometric shot (with a straight y or z axis) but gives you an idea. My goal is actually to get it back to the original look with the performance of the current version of the engine. If you remember, the old isometric engine took a few seconds to generate everything in the scene - this is generating everything in realtime at hundreds of FPS.

YbsVckZ.png
 

Gavan Woolery

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Also, just wanted to add in - I take everyone's critique's very seriously, and even thought I don't always directly express it, I share many of your critiques. I want to make the game you want to play. I am not infallible - I have already made many mistakes and will continue to make many more. Its particularly hard to please everyone as a one man team because my resources are spread relatively thin, but I have dedicated my life to making this. There is an expression "never show a fool half-finished work" - I'm not saying anyone here is a fool, but you get the point of the saying. Its still a work in progress, and it will get better over time. You just have to give it time. :)
 
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Gavan Woolery

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The engine source is going out publicly (on Github) so people can do what they want with it. Understandably its not that interesting yet because it all has been focused on the development of the engine, which is an equal part of the goal (I am not interested in just shipping a game but a unique engine that fits a particular niche which Unreal and Unity don't satisfy). Its going to take quite a while before it gets to that interesting stage, so I don't expect anyone but programmers to be excited about it yet. :)
How much of the engine did you have to research and come up with yourself? Any chance of also sharing some explanation of algorithms?
Are you using GPU compute features extensively? What API are you using, if yes?

There are a few explanations of the tech, which has changed a couple times over the years:

http://www.voxelquest.com/news/how-does-it-work
http://www.voxelquest.com/news/how-does-voxel-quest-work-now-august-2015-update

Its all written in C++ and OpenGL, no compute like CUDA or OpenCL.
All of the engine is written entirely by me, with the exception of the physics (powered by Bullet Physics).

Some "rationalizations" on the choice of using a custom engine, however irrational they might be (taken from the most recent blog post):

  1. My ultimate goal is to empower *individuals* to create stuff. Not teams of 5 to 300 skilled people - software already exists for that. I want it to be easy for a single person to create something cool, and there is a gap in the spectrum. In the low end, you have things like Minecraft - extremely approachable, and its allows a lot of creative freedom, but the flexibility is rather limited. On the high end there is Unity, Unreal, etc - the sky is the limit, but so is the learning curve and manpower required. In the middle I think there exists a gap for people to work within acceptable constraints and produce content really fast - be it games, or movies, or animations, or whatever. Normal people won't go and pick up an engine. But they will pick up an engine disguised as a game.
  2. Making games (and coding in general) is an art. From a business perspective, yes we can keep cranking out the same games on the same engines forever, and turn a profit. And if profit were my only goal, I would probably do that. But who is going to innovate? Who is going to take the risks?
  3. The current system is broken. Make a game, ship it, throw away all the work and start a new game. I am a big fan of games that live on indefinitely, like Dwarf Fortress. If you are going to go in and make a game with a "forever" attitude, you probably want to own and be familiar with all of its code.
  4. Like so many people, I have a dream game in my head. Maybe it is unrealistic (ok, it definitely is), but I am content with even pushing the envelope just slightly. Success is not black or white. Current engines are very well designed at producing your typical AAA static, linear game. They are not well designed for making the game that I dream of.
  5. Custom built stuff is what I am good at. I am not good at using other engines, and in general I don't even like to use other people's code. I started doing what had the lowest mental barrier for me, and I continue to. I am not saying this is "right" or "wrong" - it is just a personal choice. There are things I can do with my own code that would be difficult or nearly impossible to unravel in a pre-built system that is ill-suited for the given purpose.
  6. Back in the 80s and 90s, the glory went to 1 or 2 people. Now there are 300 person teams, and some guy's job is just to make the main character's right arm look really good (I wish I was joking). There is no shame in this, its a job and it takes a ton of skill to do well. But its hard to have any sort of individual expression when you are just a cog in a large machine. Nothing has changed since the 80s other than we figured out we could make a bigger, statistically stabler profit by adding more people to a team. I am just writing a game like it is still 1980.
On another note, about the direction of the game, it is still heading in the direction I initially planned, even with turned based combat. I have realtime movement and combat right now mostly just to test out stuff rapidly, but the main point of it is applying these animations (and even to some extent, physical interactions) to a turn-based mode of play. One example of how physics can be applied - in Fallout 2, when you hit someone really hard, they slide on the ground. Things like that can just as easily be applied in the engine.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
IT HAPPENED AGAIN http://www.voxelquest.com/news/what-does-the-future-hold

What does the future hold?
5/10/2016

5120519_orig.jpg


No point in dancing around the issue, I am out of money and trying to figure out what the next step is. Whatever happens, I am continuing to work on VQ, as that does not cost me anything but time. But I might need to allocate much of that time to a paying job, unless I can figure something else out.

The one thing that I have decided, for certain, is that I am returning everyone's money: Kickstarter backers, investors, patrons, and preorders (and anything else). Everyone will keep their rewards regardless. I made this decision before I even launched my Kickstarter campaign, although I've only talked about it with a few people. I am taking this step regardless of success or failure.

If I have to work another job, I will probably begin this return process as soon as possible (and it will take time to accumulate everything). Otherwise I will begin returning money when profitable. I am still planning to release something in the short term, as well as the source code.

I can understand if anybody is disappointed or angry, but I assure you no one has a heavier heart than I do. I invested over $100k of my own money, debt, and equity into this, in addition to about $500k of work (accounting for overtime and opportunity cost). I spent about a decade working in this area without any sort of return (other than it being "fun"), and over the past 3 years I put in well over 10,000 hours. I dragged my family through all of this as well. Nonetheless, if there is anything more I can do, please let me know.

This is not the end, but it is still a depressing position to be in. Still, I can't help but be grateful to have been given an opportunity to work full time on something like this.

As I have mentioned in the past, writing a game engine is a feasible (if unwise) thing to do, if you pick your battles carefully. I simply had too many battles, and too many directions I tried to tackle at once. My todo list never once shrank faster than it grew. Only at the tail end of this did I decide (for better or worse) to burn my entire set of goals and focus on one "simple" goal (although I must stress that nothing is simple).

If I sound like I have a bleak outlook, I don't. I still believe in this and I have something that I am proud of. This is the first time in my life I have worked on something of this magnitude, spanning 50k to 100k lines of code, and not wanted to scrap the entire thing. I've tackled a lot of new ground so I suppose the road is destined to be bumpy, but I continue to learn from my mistakes.

If anyone has any ideas of what I should do next, I am all ears. At the very least, I feel obligated to be transparent about my current situation. There is no outcome that I fear, I mostly just want to do what is best for everyone, even if that simply means getting a job and paying everyone back. I will probably investigate past offers I have gotten for funding, but I don't know if that will necessarily bear fruit.

One last thing I would like to make clear is that nobody owes me sympathy, and I am not even asking for it. My situation is a result of my own choices, and the only thing that I can make better is the future. All things considered, I think this journey has been great so far, and I am curious to see what the future holds.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
He seems pretty confident about his ability to find work that could quickly raise that amount of money.
 

Perkel

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He seems pretty confident about his ability to find work that could quickly raise that amount of money.

I am pretty confident that he has skills to earn that kind of money.
You don't just build voxel engine of this quality without skills.

Engine builders as i am aware are best paid people in dev from actual developing side of things (not talking about directors or designers).

Though i don't quite understand why he went for kickstarter in first place with that kind of money he can make.

still it is sad to see he will slow down on it. Didn't expect much but liked tech behind it.
 

Bester

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in addition to about $500k of work (accounting for overtime and opportunity cost).
Funniest part of the entire post. It's like if I said "I rode a bicycle every day for the last 10 years. However, if it had been a home bike that could generate electricity, I would've made $500k off of it." Yeah, duh, lol. If you had worked instead of doing your hobby, you would've made money. Lol, sue yourself for opportunity costs.
 

vonAchdorf

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13,465
I think he's a cool and talented guy and I hope he can finish this.

What's it with the voxel RPGs not getting anywhere. Cube World went on hiatus for a year (after selling an alpha) until the developer reappeared surprisingly and now works on the game again.
 
Unwanted

Endlösung

Unwanted
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
340
I am returning everyone's money
Ohlel, and Bioware is working on a PC exclusive turnbased party RPG with CnC great combat!

e
dit

I see, its been only 30k, so maybe doable.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,504
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Thank You
5/11/2016

First, I just wanted to say "thanks" to everyone for the outpouring of enthusiasm and support. I tried to reply to many people but apologies if I missed you - there were literally hundreds of messages across Twitter, Facebook, email, Kickstarter, this website, etc. I was legitimately, deeply moved by many of the replies.

By popular request, I am not shoving your money back in your hands, it will be optional. I will put together a survey for this (likely when I get a means to start paying people back, be that employment or whatever). I also still need to figure out the logistics of what order people should be paid back in.

Also by popular request, I am putting up a Patreon page, which is located here. I put very little effort into it, but as noted I think my effort is better spent actually working on the game. Previously I did have a patronage page on this website, and even though I never once advertised or mentioned it, people found it on their own and I had over $100/month coming in from this, which really helped. It is also accessible via the "Patrons" link at the top of this site. Old patrons (who donated via Paypal) - please cancel your patronage (or I will do it for you when I get the chance). If you still wish to be a patron (and I really won't judge you either way), you can use the Patreon page. The old list of patrons will remain in place, for the historical record. :)

If you are not already aware of the state of things, I may have to get a job soon so I am hesitant to recommend providing further funds as my pace will be slow. If I get enough money (I mean, via whatever job I take), I might hire someone who costs less than I do to work on it (or at least to help me with certain tasks) - I am also supposed to have someone interning for me this summer but I don't know what that will yield (they volunteered to though). Anyhow, I am still evaluating all options at this point and trying to figure out the best plan of attack. There have been some good suggestions so far, feel free to add any more.
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
13,465
Also by popular request, I am putting up a Patreon page, which is located here. I put very little effort into it, but as noted I think my effort is better spent actually working on the game. Previously I did have a patronage page on this website, and even though I never once advertised or mentioned it, people found it on their own and I had over $100/month coming in from this, which really helped. It is also accessible via the "Patrons" link at the top of this site. Old patrons (who donated via Paypal) - please cancel your patronage (or I will do it for you when I get the chance). If you still wish to be a patron (and I really won't judge you either way), you can use the Patreon page. The old list of patrons will remain in place, for the historical record. :)

Why would the prefer Patreon over PayPal? PayPal should be free for him if it's not for a commercial transaction.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,504
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
How does one return money to a kickstarter?
AFAIK it doesn't have it's "steam wallet" sort of fing.

It doesn't go through Kickstarter. The project owner has to pay the backers back directly (losing money in the process because he also has to pay Kickstarter's cut of the original pledge)
 

Nyast

Cipher
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
609
How does one return money to a kickstarter?
AFAIK it doesn't have it's "steam wallet" sort of fing.

It doesn't go through Kickstarter. The project owner has to pay the backers back directly (losing money in the process because he also has to pay Kickstarter's cut of the original pledge)

That's even worse than that, because when you refund money, it's considered a new transaction so you have to pay the transaction tax ( 5-10% ) again on top of it. You end up losing more than you originally gained.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Another Update
6/14/2016

Hi all - bet you are wondering what is going on at this point. The short answer is I did not know exactly how to proceed until now, finally having an idea of my employment situation.

I have talked to some people (in the forums, email, and elsewhere) about the current status but otherwise apologize for the silence. Basically for the past month I have been busy hunting for jobs and doing associated prep work or tasks. I also tried to get VQ funded via other means (licensing) but that did not work out. I am moving on to a fulltime job, so I am deciding to cancel the Patreon (and I will refund everyone's money here and elsewhere, of course). I don't feel right taking money when I probably won't have much time or energy to devote to the project.

The good news is that I am making all of Voxel Quest fully open source (MIT or similar, every iteration of the engine will be available), and I am doing a little bit of work to make things ready for this (I am even attempting to buy rights to the sprite sheet that Voxel Quest uses, which is a 3rd party asset). Stay tuned for more on this. I can't express how thankful I am that you chose to support me, and I hope that the years of work I put into VQ and all its source will be a small token of my gratitude. I will probably cancel my Patreon before the next pledge cycle so you don't need to necessarily manage your pledge, it should be automatically canceled soon. The Patreon peaked at $450/month, which I am really surprised at, although I expressed concern with starting it in the first place and turns out those concerns were valid. I will also soon organize a method for refunds (both for Patreon and everything else). Any questions or concerns, as usual, do not hesitate to contact me. Again, my goal is to keep everyone happy so let me know what I can do in that respect.

I am not fully abandoning VQ - I will attempt to provide as much support as I reasonably can to help people understand the source, and I will also probably chip in on the github repository every so often. But overall I will not be making great strides in the short term. I am hoping that someone can eventually make a commercial product with it, and that might kick up interest a bit.

For those curious, I am soon going to start contracting at OpenAI, with potential to move full time.

*Again, I stress that refunds are not required, but if anyone wants one I am offering without judgement.

Additionally, I have read through all of the comments below and I continue to be blown away by people's enthusiasm. I am not replying individually because my website's comment handler is a pain to use for many entries.
 

Alchemist

Arcane
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
1,439
Well, that seems the best possible outcome of the situation. It looks like really interesting technology and I'm glad to see it will live on as open-source. I might tinker around with it at some point. I could see this being useful for some sci-fi game ideas I've had, especially for procedural planet exploration. Maybe that Starflight-esque game I've always dreamed of making...
 

Drax

Arcane
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
10,986
Location
Silver City, Southern Lands
Another Update
6/14/2016

Hi all - bet you are wondering what is going on at this point. The short answer is I did not know exactly how to proceed until now, finally having an idea of my employment situation.

I have talked to some people (in the forums, email, and elsewhere) about the current status but otherwise apologize for the silence. Basically for the past month I have been busy hunting for jobs and doing associated prep work or tasks. I also tried to get VQ funded via other means (licensing) but that did not work out. I am moving on to a fulltime job, so I am deciding to cancel the Patreon (and I will refund everyone's money here and elsewhere, of course). I don't feel right taking money when I probably won't have much time or energy to devote to the project.

The good news is that I am making all of Voxel Quest fully open source (MIT or similar, every iteration of the engine will be available), and I am doing a little bit of work to make things ready for this (I am even attempting to buy rights to the sprite sheet that Voxel Quest uses, which is a 3rd party asset). Stay tuned for more on this. I can't express how thankful I am that you chose to support me, and I hope that the years of work I put into VQ and all its source will be a small token of my gratitude. I will probably cancel my Patreon before the next pledge cycle so you don't need to necessarily manage your pledge, it should be automatically canceled soon. The Patreon peaked at $450/month, which I am really surprised at, although I expressed concern with starting it in the first place and turns out those concerns were valid. I will also soon organize a method for refunds (both for Patreon and everything else). Any questions or concerns, as usual, do not hesitate to contact me. Again, my goal is to keep everyone happy so let me know what I can do in that respect.

I am not fully abandoning VQ - I will attempt to provide as much support as I reasonably can to help people understand the source, and I will also probably chip in on the github repository every so often. But overall I will not be making great strides in the short term. I am hoping that someone can eventually make a commercial product with it, and that might kick up interest a bit.

For those curious, I am soon going to start contracting at OpenAI, with potential to move full time.

*Again, I stress that refunds are not required, but if anyone wants one I am offering without judgement.

Additionally, I have read through all of the comments below and I continue to be blown away by people's enthusiasm. I am not replying individually because my website's comment handler is a pain to use for many entries.

:brodex:
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258
I backed this despite knowing from day one this is how it would end. It was way too ambitious as an indie project and would still be ambitious even for a team of, say, 5-8.

Gavan Woolery I wish you had settled for something less for your gameplay goals and decided to stick with an actual, short game that was built around showcasing the main strengths of your framework. More than that, I wish you had someone to give you restraints and goals and direction. Because your framework had/has so much promise. No regrets, no hard feelings and I wish the best for you, I am only a little frustrated too talent end up in a dead end.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Shame to see the setback. Ah well, at least he's doing the right thing.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
First version of source code released: http://www.voxelquest.com/news/first-release

First Release!!!

voxelquest-2014-10-09-00-05-35-3.png


It is the moment you have all been waiting for!...ish. I am sticking one toe in the water and putting out a very, very unpolished release of the very first version of the engine (the isometric engine, which differs from what I previously said I would release first, due to demand). Other versions are to follow. It was a fair amount of work to prep just this release, as unpolished as it is. And there are many things wrong, which I am mostly aware of (see the README.md). As noted, the point was not to make a perfect release, the point was to get the code in your hands as fast as possible (and I am sorry it has taken this long for me to get it out!). I am hoping that between my help and contributors, it can be turned into something at least a little more polished. So without further ado:

http://www.github.com/gavanw/voxelquestiso

or you can get the executable at:

http://gavanw.itch.io/vqiso

(Note, I am not charging money, but it obviously costs itch.io to host it, so throw some money at them if you care to).

On a side note, I am still figuring out how I want to earn money (from work, not VQ!). In the short term, I will probably be contracting a bit more, and I have created a new contracting website here (if you have any leads, let me know! - also, it is a rough draft and the splash page is messed up on mobile phones, so view it in a browser for now). Also, if you would like to vouch for me, you can do so here.
 

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