Preview Tyranny Previews - Gameplay Footage and Conquest Mode Details

[DeepOcean]

Haba is absolutely correct. Everything that is outside the narrative is by definition extraneous and unnecessary (in the best case, the worst case would be if it was necessary to understand the plot). This also goes back to the whole "omniscient UI" problem, but it's less severe in this case. We don't need to know absolutely everything, in most cases it's actually better that we don't because plot holes are more easily avoidable by the writer. People have been arguing that a game isn't like a book, while this is true, I haven't seen a lot of examples where games aren't treated like books. Obsidian sure have, the paragraphs upon paragraphs of explanations in PoE means they've completely neglected the visual aspect of games. Attaching appendices (the clicky words) to works is something more common in dissertations or science books, not games. Writers have to convince us that their writing is good and worth reading, it's not our job to "immerse ourselves" or "read the corresponding wiki articles for maximum information".

I'm not exactly sure how you explain a complex political scenario visually. It's certainly not something movie or TV writers do well. Perhaps you could provide some examples.

For video games, I think an in-game encyclopedia is probably the least worst option. Put things the player absolutely needs to know in dialog, and let them dig for the rest if they care.

If they are going to place information they won't heavily reference on the game on the encyclopedia, that is cool, like what is happening on far away nations, fluff lore details and etc, however, if key things on the plot that you need to access the encyplopedia to understand are in there, they can fuck off.

On PoE, I had no fucking idea who the leader of Defiance Bay was before that silly trial, stuff like that is horrible, you didn't know anything about the fucking city you were exploring besides on some lame boring lore info dumps. What the fucking quests and NPCs are for? Use them.

However, if they had the programming work to implement this system in, it is because reading that stuff is critical to undertand what is happening otherwise they wouldn't bother and I find that horrible.

 

[Sannom]

I remember when the info dumps were in the manual. Good times.

 

[Roguey]

On PoE, I had no fucking idea who the leader of Defiance Bay was before that silly trial, stuff like that is horrible, you didn't know anything about the fucking city you were exploring besides on some lame boring lore info dumps.

I've noticed that a lot of posters here seemed to have had reading comprehension problems with Pillars.

 

[J_C]

On PoE, I had no fucking idea who the leader of Defiance Bay was before that silly trial, stuff like that is horrible, you didn't know anything about the fucking city you were exploring besides on some lame boring lore info dumps.

I've noticed that a lot of posters here seemed to have had reading comprehension problems with Pillars.

Many so called hardcore Codexers seem to get just as lazy with text heavy games as those casuals they like to ridicule so much.

 

[Infinitron]

I guess that would be a "lame boring lore info dump".

 

[adddeed]

For fuks sake here people complain about the most retarded crap. Lore dumps in an RPG? The nerve some developers have!

 

[Lacrymas]

Too bad those things she says about him mean nothing, apart from the fact that he's willing to lie to hold onto power. Which might've been significant if we had any meaningful interactions with him and he wasn't killed off immediately. These characters mean nothing and do nothing, they are like wax figures in historical museums, lined up for us to gawk at.

 

[Marten Broadcloak]

For fuks sake here people complain about the most retarded crap. Lore dumps in an RPG? The nerve some developers have!

It's an interesting point though. Infodumps are rarely mentioned in media (or even on the Internet) whereas they can really impede your enjoyment of a game. I don't think Fallout or Underrail had infodumps, for that matter - I'm not so sure about Arcanum.
It's not about the player being lazy, it's about the developed not being able to tell his story in a better and more efficient way.

 

[Bester]

I don't think Fallout or Underrail had infodumps

There were a few holodisks you could get your hands on in Fallout that explained the world a lot. Was usually a couple of pip boy pages long.
1- They were unique. It felt like you found a treasure.
2- You could read them when you felt like it, instead of having to plow through them whenever the dev decided to shove them in your face. You could go back to some safe place, trade, rest, and read those things at your leisure.
3- There was much much much much less of them, and they were presented as documents or news papers. It was natural. The dialogue infodumps are not.

POE also has books. They don't feel unique, and their content is some of the worst boring things I've seen in my life. You can literally enjoy watching grass grow more than reading those.

 

[agris]

Have we seen any examples of selecting dialogue options that we do not have the requisite skills for, and thus fuck up royally?

edit: or an environmental interaction where we select an action we're not skilled enough to perform, and fail at?

 

[Infinitron]

Have we seen any examples of selecting dialogue options that we do not have the requisite skills for, and thus fuck up royally?

edit: or an environmental interaction where we select an action we're not skilled enough to perform, and fail at?

I don't think Obsidian are doing that anymore, that was just a New Vegas thing.

(I tried asking Josh about it reintroducing it once, but he didn't reply.)

 

[agris]

That's really a shame. Failure is important in RPGs.

 

[Infinitron]

That's really a shame. Failure is important in RPGs.

Well obviously you can still fail at stuff by not having access to a "winning" option and being forced to do something else. There's just no "try this dialogue option but receive a different response because your skill isn't high enough". Although some of the scripted interactions in PoE did do that, now that I think of it.

 

[Sentinel]

Speaking of Josh, wasn't there supposed to be an interview coming out? Been waiting for that for some time now.

 

[DeepOcean]

Many so called hardcore Codexers seem to get just as lazy with text heavy games as those casuals they like to ridicule so much.

And that text has anything of remarkable where? Some codexers seems to not know the diference of having something to read and having something with actual content to read. Maybe casuals have more sense than people who think reading crap long winded text make them cool.

Let's see:

King that comes from stabilished family, claims ancient glory on the family past.
He knows when people are lying or not.
He likes to appear as a simpleton but he is a devious trapper.

Sure, you defined probably 95% of the monarchs of the planet Earth or at least how their apologists describe them, what a great lore! How about just cutting all that bullshit? I bet it wouldn't make any difference. Besides... I didn't see anything of those supposed qualities on the very SINGLE one time I met the dude, guess having the fucking king of the city giving you some shitty sidequests for you to do was too much for Obsidian, maybe on those quests we could actually see how the dude was instead of having generic NPC 001 saying generic NPC 002 is super cool.

 

[Sentinel]

Many so called hardcore Codexers seem to get just as lazy with text heavy games as those casuals they like to ridicule so much.

And that text has anything of remarkable where? Some codexers seems to not know the diference of having something to read and having something with actual content to read. Maybe casuals have more sense than people who think reading crap long winded text make them cool.

Let's see:

King that comes from stabilished family, claims ancient glory on the family past.
He knows when people are lying or not.
He likes to appear as a simpleton but he is a devious trapper.

Sure, you defined probably 95% of the monarchs of the planet Earth or at least how their apologists describe them, what a great lore! How about just cutting all that bullshit? I bet it wouldn't make any difference. Besides... I didn't see anything of those supposed qualities on the very SINGLE one time I met the dude, guess having the fucking king of the city giving you some shitty sidequests for you to do was too much for Obsidian, maybe on those quests we could actually see how the dude was instead of having generic NPC 001 saying generic NPC 002 is super cool.

There was actually more content with the duke but it got cut.

 

[Sizzle]

There was actually more content with the duke but it got cut.

Really? Do you know anything else about that?

What I dislike about the entire Duc Aevar is how he's introduced and dispatched so quickly - all that dialogue about him being such a great bloke and fine leader don't really get a chance to play out when his role is done after asking a few questions.

Could have easily been avoided if you got a chance to meet him before the actual NWN2 Trial Lite scene and talk for a bit. As the new Lord of Caed Nua, an option to see him beforehand could have been presented.

 

[J_C]

Many so called hardcore Codexers seem to get just as lazy with text heavy games as those casuals they like to ridicule so much.

And that text has anything of remarkable where? Some codexers seems to not know the diference of having something to read and having something with actual content to read. Maybe casuals have more sense than people who think reading crap long winded text make them cool.

Let's see:

King that comes from stabilished family, claims ancient glory on the family past.
He knows when people are lying or not.
He likes to appear as a simpleton but he is a devious trapper.

Sure, you defined probably 95% of the monarchs of the planet Earth or at least how their apologists describe them, what a great lore! How about just cutting all that bullshit? I bet it wouldn't make any difference. Besides... I didn't see anything of those supposed qualities on the very SINGLE one time I met the dude, guess having the fucking king of the city giving you some shitty sidequests for you to do was too much for Obsidian, maybe on those quests we could actually see how the dude was instead of having generic NPC 001 saying generic NPC 002 is super cool.

The question is not about the quality of the text, I was saying that you were complaining that there is no information about some lore, when actually there is, people are just lazy to read it. If you think the writing is shit and you don't read it, it's fine, but then just don't say that things are not explained in the game. Because they are.

 

[Visbhume]

When the player character is assumed to already have knowledge of the world, some kind of preparatory infodump seems difficult to avoid.

When the player character is a foreigner in the setting (or even, conveniently, an amnesiac) exposition can be handled more subtly.

 

[Lacrymas]

The complaint is the other way around - that they explain too much, but say almost nothing of substance. That's a trend I've noticed with recent releases, writers "come up" with a lot of "lore" but they can't develop an idea, so that lore means nothing and goes nowhere. Mozart actually has a piece (the Musical Joke) that parodies incompetent composers who can't develop their ideas and can't coherently connect the different "stages" of a musical composition (it also negatively critiques the popular aesthetics of his day, but that's another matter), that piece rings truer now than ever.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Many so called hardcore Codexers seem to get just as lazy with text heavy games as those casuals they like to ridicule so much.

 

[Sentinel]

There was actually more content with the duke but it got cut.

Really? Do you know anything else about that?

What I dislike about the entire Duc Aevar is how he's introduced and dispatched so quickly - all that dialogue about him being such a great bloke and fine leader don't really get a chance to play out when his role is done after asking a few questions.

Could have easily been avoided if you got a chance to meet him before the actual NWN2 Trial Lite scene and talk for a bit. As the new Lord of Caed Nua, an option to see him beforehand could have been presented.

Don't really have a link handy, but it was either the Eric Fenstermaker interview with Codex or some PAX 2016 panel where they answered questions about development/things they'd change/problems they faced.

 

[Infinitron]

Eric said he wanted the player's choices in the animancy hearing to have more of an effect, possibly including the option of saving the duc. It wasn't phrased as "more content with the duc", and he never said anything about meeting the duc before the hearing.

 

[DeepOcean]

The question is not about the quality of the text, I was saying that you were complaining that there is no information about some lore, when actually there is, people are just lazy to read it. If you think the writing is shit and you don't read it, it's fine, but then just don't say that things are not explained in the game. Because they are.

I disagree, you claim: "There is a text about this guy even if it doesn't say anything of relevance, so there is lore!"
I say: "The title of duc is pretty much self explanatory unless for dummies, he is a royal figure, having text saying he is a royal kind of figure is kinda of pointless text that was better to not exist."

There were many instances of meaningless blobs of text that are more there to fill the lore quota than to do anything interesting, that wouldn't be a problem if alot of this lore weren't related with pretty much important stuff like Duc Aevar that will enter on the guiness book of the quickest killed royal figure of a video game ever, the guy was you saw... he died, that was a record.

There are points of PoE with really interesting lore like:
The religious war and persecution.
The creepy experiments by the animancers with really terrible consequences like the monster children.
The conflicting relationships between the indigenous population and the colonists.
The fear people have for watchers.

The amount of quests that actually make use of this lore: 00

 

[HoboForEternity]

Roguey come here bby