Tried Deus Ex - linear popamole shit, no choices, wtf?

[Pythonsss]

This is basically what a gamespot or IGN review would look like if Deus Ex came out today.
Actually, the lack of big choices during the plotline would be something most codexers would cry about as well, if it came out right now. Just because it's an easy thing to whine about, and codex always whines about something.

Deus ex is a fun as shit game, but the only, single reason people recognize it for the pretty decent game it is, is because they'd get chased out if they tried to nitpick at every small thing they didn't like the way they do about recent releases. God damn, people, considering the posts I've read around here, most of you faggots would probably bandwagon and agree about the "DISTRESSING LACK OF * SNORT* CHOICES" if he wasn't talking a "classic" game.

Get a personality, or, if failing that, a solid opinion on what you like or don't like.

 

[Mangoose]

I thought the hilarity of this article, when I read it a month ago, was that Rex picked out an example in Fallout that really had no differing consequences, just a bunch of choices.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

This is basically what a gamespot or IGN review would look like if Deus Ex came out today.
Actually, the lack of big choices during the plotline would be something most codexers would cry about as well, if it came out right now. Just because it's an easy thing to whine about, and codex always whines about something.

Deus ex is a fun as shit game, but the only, single reason people recognize it for the pretty decent game it is, is because they'd get chased out if they tried to nitpick at every small thing they didn't like the way they do about recent releases. God damn, people, considering the posts I've read around here, most of you faggots would probably bandwagon and agree about the "DISTRESSING LACK OF * SNORT* CHOICES" if he wasn't talking a "classic" game.

Get a personality, or, if failing that, a solid opinion on what you like or don't like.

Could you tell me what solid opinions you have about your favourite CRPGs please.

 

[SCO]

Deus Ex has a linear story but non-linear level design. When people praise it for "choices" and "non-linearity", they mean the levels, not the game itself.

So yeah, article-writer is re-ta-dred.

The story is not exactly totally linear. You can even not kill Anna (make her run away, then she opens the door).
This is even reflected in the dialog with Gunther. (he is not pissed at you for killing anna, but because you let him in the nsf cell, if you did, or just following orders if you didn't, with differing dialog if you let him raid the place or not).

Similarly it is actually possible to trank Simmons and Ghunter if you get their hp down enough. They are augmented after all. (It SHOULD be possible to do it with anna, but someone didn't get the memo).

Author is a moron that can't understand a choice that is not telegraphed to him.

 

[SCO]

You can see how to do it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjXKIK8NWEw

Ofcourse the herding to open the door is a exploit, but it's obvious (by the changed Ghunter line, that it was intended to be possible to avoid Anna) - it's probably just a bug with her ai routine not being able to set a fixed escape route.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Which I'll then reply to, eventually humiliate you

AHAHAHAHA. You? A little dumbshit?

And here we have it again, you being a complete retard. If you had any idea how childish you look, maybe you would stop, but I guess that would deprive others of entertainment, so by all means, carry on.

Make an attack without substance

Check your posts.

Check YOUR posts. You're the one who always starts this shit. You've been a butthurt little bitch about me for a long time, probably based off that original flamewar from a long time ago, and so every chance you get you have to lash out at me with whatever attack you can muster (adimittedly not much because apparantly you lack the mental faculties for anything greater than "AHAAHAAHA, look at Dicksmoker!). You'd think that you'd eventually learn to let sleeping dogs lie, but you just...can't...resist. And so you end up looking like a retard, just like you will now.

See how many end in the same retarded way.

Curious that you would use the word "end." As if admitteding that prior to the end there's something else...

I bet you feel really proud each time you make one of those posts, though. That's how it is with mentally challenged people, proud of every little thing they manage to do more than once.

See, case in point. You're so immature it's not even funny.

 

[Pythonsss]

Could you tell me what solid opinions you have about your favourite CRPGs please.

The point of that post, which you seem to have missed, is to stop hopping on the praise bandwagon whenever a classic game comes up and start bashing newer games with nearly identical features.

Since we're on the topic, let me use Deus Ex as an example.

You see a guard, you stop, you fire your pistol as fast as you can. Nearly all the bullets in the clip miss, even though he was smack dead in the middle of your crosshair. But that's ok, because you're being a dumbass by not focusing your aim, and you haven't dropped points into light weapons yet.
The AI is screwy, stealth is messed up because they're all shortsighted and have no peripheral vision. Light and darkness don't matter at all with stealth, and enemies will frequently perform a rather useless preprogrammed action instead of shooting back. While you're attacking them.
Most of the plot is linear, you can choose who lives and who dies at certain points, but that has no impact on the ending, so it barely matters. The only real story-changing choice is at the end, which determinds what ending you get.
Enemies don't have much variety, fights always turn out the same way, and killing/stunning the same dim security guard gets tiring after a while.

Now, I have a confession to make. I lied. I'm not talking about Deus Ex, I was talking about Alpha Protocol. Every fault that I just listed got AP bashed to pieces but were barely, if at all, mentioned in threads about DX.

And yes, I did like Alpha Protocol. I loved it to bits, checkpoint errors or no.

 

[Kosmonaut]

This is basically what a gamespot or IGN review would look like if Deus Ex came out today.
Actually, the lack of big choices during the plotline would be something most codexers would cry about as well, if it came out right now. Just because it's an easy thing to whine about, and codex always whines about something.

Deus ex is a fun as shit game, but the only, single reason people recognize it for the pretty decent game it is, is because they'd get chased out if they tried to nitpick at every small thing they didn't like the way they do about recent releases. God damn, people, considering the posts I've read around here, most of you faggots would probably bandwagon and agree about the "DISTRESSING LACK OF * SNORT* CHOICES" if he wasn't talking a "classic" game.

Get a personality, or, if failing that, a solid opinion on what you like or don't like.

'Sup Drog.

 

[Zomg]

totally not drog

Classic codex delurker post where you build up puss reading our stupid shit for a month or two and then barf it out in one big articulation,

a real poster and not an alt

signed,

Zomg

 

[Shannow]

Since we have decided that C&C is not the most important aspect of RPGs, in that way it is fine.

No we haven't. Pretend otherwise if that makes you feel better.

Depends on who you mean with "we". If it's you, me, mondblut and perhaps FTR, you're right. If you mean the vast majority of the co'x (unanimosity is impossible here anyway) I'm not aware any poll/thread that would substanciate that claim. In fact Arcanum being in the recent top 5 is a quite strong argument against it. Since Arcanum has little more going for it than setting and C&C.

Perhaps this will clarify the issue.

 

[StrangeCase]

It's very trendy to talk about C&C these days. Unfortunately, it was never clearly defined to the hivemind's satisfaction. As a result, lots of different people expect lots of different things from a vaguely-defined concept. Sort of like "RPG". Maybe we need subgenres of C&C. Then we'd have four times as many buzzwords floating around, like fC&C and uC&C or whatever. Wouldn't that be lovely?

 

[Shannow]

It's very trendy to talk about C&C these days. Unfortunately, it was never clearly defined to the hivemind's satisfaction. As a result, lots of different people expect lots of different things from a vaguely-defined concept. Sort of like "RPG". Maybe we need subgenres of C&C. Then we'd have four times as many buzzwords floating around, like fC&C and uC&C or whatever. Wouldn't that be lovely?

Sounds awesome. Make a poll. I fear the Obsidian drama is dying down, we need new drama!
"Multiple choices a good, neutral, evil that lead to essentially the same outcome aren't better than larping."
"You sir, are a moron!"
"No, you R!"
"What you guys are missing is that C&C is more than simple dialogue, it's also how you use your character's strengths and weaknesses. Tactical decisions in combat, that's were the real C&Cs lie."
"So Halo is full of C&C? GTFO, you dumbfuck!"

Oh, I see a lot of potential there.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Could you tell me what solid opinions you have about your favourite CRPGs please.

The point of that post, which you seem to have missed, is to stop hopping on the praise bandwagon whenever a classic game comes up and start bashing newer games with nearly identical features.

Since we're on the topic, let me use Deus Ex as an example.

You see a guard, you stop, you fire your pistol as fast as you can. Nearly all the bullets in the clip miss, even though he was smack dead in the middle of your crosshair. But that's ok, because you're being a dumbass by not focusing your aim, and you haven't dropped points into light weapons yet.
The AI is screwy, stealth is messed up because they're all shortsighted and have no peripheral vision. Light and darkness don't matter at all with stealth, and enemies will frequently perform a rather useless preprogrammed action instead of shooting back. While you're attacking them.
Most of the plot is linear, you can choose who lives and who dies at certain points, but that has no impact on the ending, so it barely matters. The only real story-changing choice is at the end, which determinds what ending you get.
Enemies don't have much variety, fights always turn out the same way, and killing/stunning the same dim security guard gets tiring after a while.

Now, I have a confession to make. I lied. I'm not talking about Deus Ex, I was talking about Alpha Protocol. Every fault that I just listed got AP bashed to pieces but were barely, if at all, mentioned in threads about DX.

And yes, I did like Alpha Protocol. I loved it to bits, checkpoint errors or no.

Sorry, but no. I've never seen anyone claim that Deus Ex is flawless. In fact, the major flaws that are pointed out are the combat system and the weak AI. The thing is, though, the level design oh so makes up for that. Moreover, the stealth system, while not Thief, is at least fun. And while the combat is flawed, it's tons superior to AP. No one has said DX is flawless, but it tends to be agreed that the way the game is put together makes up for those flaws. AP, however, has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, except that it's blessedly short.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Deus Ex has long been my favourite club for fending off attacks by rabid Skyways complaining that 'cosmetic' C+C can't still be good game design (i.e. the various choices to kill or leave Anna, Gunther, to save or leave Paul, Lebedev, Smuggler etc).

 

[GarfunkeL]

Helpless and vulnerable, Aradesh needs someone to save her and you are there. It is up to you, however, if you want to save her or ignore the opportunity completely. The latter would not yield a positive outcome for the player. He’ll hate your guts and expel you from the town, and unspeakable things will happen to Tandi, but it is an option.

Can someone please remind me how this worked? You can't exit the quest ofer without answering Yes or No?

Or was there a timer?

Timer. Even if you never visit Shady Sands, Tandi WILL get kidnapped and eventually ends up dead. Compare that to the DA:O "quest monsters only spawn after you have received quest"-shtick and I find myself agreeing with Sol for most part.

 

[chzr]

Games like the The Witcher and the critically acclaimed Dragon Age have been touted as revolutionary to the role-playing genre for their freedom and multilinear narrative experience.

Did I miss something?

 

[Forest Dweller]

Since we have decided that C&C is not the most important aspect of RPGs, in that way it is fine.

No we haven't. Pretend otherwise if that makes you feel better.

Depends on who you mean with "we". If it's you, me, mondblut and perhaps FTR, you're right. If you mean the vast majority of the co'x (unanimosity is impossible here anyway) I'm not aware any poll/thread that would substanciate that claim. In fact Arcanum being in the recent top 5 is a quite strong argument against it. Since Arcanum has little more going for it than setting and C&C.

Huh? I think you misread that. He said we have discovered that C&C is not the most important aspect of an rpg.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Man, what a shitty thread.

 

[shihonage]

Timer. Even if you never visit Shady Sands, Tandi WILL get kidnapped and eventually ends up dead. Compare that to the DA:O "quest monsters only spawn after you have received quest"-shtick and I find myself agreeing with Sol for most part.

Timers are a pretty risky decision. If you don't ever approach Aradesh you won't even know... Hmm.

(starts thinking about usability of yellow exclamation points)

(shoots self)

 

[JarlFrank]

Similarly it is actually possible to trank Simmons and Ghunter if you get their hp down enough.

I knocked out Simmons with the baton after damaging him enough to make him run away. I managed to trap him in a small room, standing in the doorway and blocking it, while whacking on the running Simmons with my baton until he fell down.

 

[Melcar]

So, are our dreams crushed yet? I'm too busy to notice right now.

 

[Vibalist]

Could you tell me what solid opinions you have about your favourite CRPGs please.

The point of that post, which you seem to have missed, is to stop hopping on the praise bandwagon whenever a classic game comes up and start bashing newer games with nearly identical features.

Since we're on the topic, let me use Deus Ex as an example.

You see a guard, you stop, you fire your pistol as fast as you can. Nearly all the bullets in the clip miss, even though he was smack dead in the middle of your crosshair. But that's ok, because you're being a dumbass by not focusing your aim, and you haven't dropped points into light weapons yet.
The AI is screwy, stealth is messed up because they're all shortsighted and have no peripheral vision. Light and darkness don't matter at all with stealth, and enemies will frequently perform a rather useless preprogrammed action instead of shooting back. While you're attacking them.
Most of the plot is linear, you can choose who lives and who dies at certain points, but that has no impact on the ending, so it barely matters. The only real story-changing choice is at the end, which determinds what ending you get.
Enemies don't have much variety, fights always turn out the same way, and killing/stunning the same dim security guard gets tiring after a while.

Now, I have a confession to make. I lied. I'm not talking about Deus Ex, I was talking about Alpha Protocol. Every fault that I just listed got AP bashed to pieces but were barely, if at all, mentioned in threads about DX.

And yes, I did like Alpha Protocol. I loved it to bits, checkpoint errors or no.

You're missing the point here. DX was never loved for neither its combat, stealth, AI nor c&c. It was loved for its level design, atmosphere and story. Alpha Protocol has decent atmosphere and story, but the level design is much worse. DX earns the classic tag because it actually is a really good game, not because of nostalgia or because Codexers wont admit that some newer games are just as good.

You're basically just running through all the features that people already know are bad in DX, and you forget that people consider it a classic for other reasons entirely.