Game News Torment Kickstarter media blitz begins: Campaign to launch on March 6th, Chris Avellone endorses

[winterraptor]

Torment...series?

Well, it was a series of fucking disks back in the day, I know that much. Can't recall if some of them were avoidable with installation choices or not...

 

[undecaf]

I agree that combat is and should not be the point of a "Torment game", but since there will be some, I'd very much appreciate if I could enjoy it. I'd take even a simple TB over any kind of RTwP.

Make it a fucking stretch goal, at least, "X amount gathered -> TB&CTB combat in" -- if that is in the realm of possibility to begin with.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I specifically haven't bothered with Torment because of the combat. The story might be interesting but it doesn't help if you bury it in shit.

As in games released and playing them.

ah, okay. with shadowrun returns showing some gameplay this week, and with the WL2 video looking okay, I'm kind of optimistic. but I understand the sentiment of actually playing something, too.

It's less to do with game-play as such and more to do with "this is the games' industry. We all know they can't deliver half of what they promise." Part of the KickStarter issue is whether they can deliver a finished product that's of some reasonable quality, what's the content of the games like and so on - as much as it's about game-play. Mount & Blade had good great game-play from a small team but the actual content was all a bit meh. Something like Torment I believe requires a lot of good content. Whether they can get good game-play and adequate content, or have to do pull a Bloodlines and cut the last chapter off.

And to be honest, I'd rather see them focusing on the one game and completing that to their best of their ability, rather than getting distracted by having multiple teams and projects to work on at once. Hell, they could even use the profits from the first game to make the second one better.

 

[Infinitron]

And to be honest, I'd rather see them focusing on the one game and completing that to their best of their ability, rather than getting distracted by having multiple teams and projects to work on at once. Hell, they could even use the profits from the first game to make the second one better.

As somebody with business management experience, I trust you're aware of the implications of a game developer "focusing on one game"?

 

[hiver]

We all know how much bad combat didnt bother anyone in PST, amirite?
for fuck sake...

People are trying to pre-emptively tone that possibility down - by actively advocating that combat should be removed or made shitty.
Get a fucking grip people!



Storytelling in games


Colin just tried to get Patrick Rothfuss (who is a true bro!) to write for Torment!
haha! Yes! Stretch goal! Good idea! Get him! Get him!

 

[Zeriel]

Uhhhh. That's an amazing screengrab. Is that guy the Jarl of Whiterun?

Also, it's good to know that Colin is Kane from Command & Conquer.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Brother None, will there be a paypal option up soon? Maybe even soon enough to catch some of those early bird specials? There are some of us that can't use kickstarter you know.

 

[J_C]

I play codex on hardmode. No casual ignoring for me.

The ignore function is for the WEAK. It is the STRONG who survive. I will ENDURE the shitposters and noobtards, and by ENDURING, grow STRONG.

+1

I only use ignore on Skyway, because every post of his is like a critical hit on my intelligence.

Anyway, the game sound awesome, and I very much like the art of that character. I might cough up some money for the Kickstarter, if the lowest teir will be reasonable.

 

[Gozma]

All I gotta say is, if you can't make it good, make it really fast. Might and Magic inshallah

 

[hiver]

:knock knock:

Rise and shine mr McComb, ... rise and shine!

Its 8:24 and Europe is online and waiting.


Also, can someone tell mr Fargo that 06 at .6th is a great date?
6+6 is 12, right? 1 and 2 gives you three. And 3 times two is SIX!
I got it all figured out! Its all good!

A good day. Im going to play a lottery ticket for today.

 

[jewboy]

As we understand it, the planet won’t even be habitable (at least for most organisms) at that point.

For anyone wondering what he is talking about it is not the sun exhausting its hydrogen and switching over to helium and then ballooning into a red giant and vaporizing the earth in 4.5 to 5 billion years. It is the gradual increase in the sun's luminosity as its hydrogen fusion into helium accelerates. Unlike anthropogenic global warming this is a natural and inevitable process that will result in an earth devoid of water and therefore no longer habitable for water based organisms such as ourselves.

According to the most recent models this is supposed to occur in about 1.1 billion years. Admittedly this is based on computer models, but the only uncertainty is supposed to be when it happens and not if. As stars go ours is relatively large and because of this our habitable period, the length of time that our planet remains in the habitable, or 'goldilocks' zone is shorter than most at only around 4.9 billion years. In 370 million years our planet will technically no longer be in the habitable zone. This doesn't mean that it won't be habitable though. Mars will be in the habitable zone in about 1.7 billion years. So if we could find someplace to hang out for about 600 million years we could move there if we could bring our water with us.

It may be possible to move over to Mars or a Jovian moon and transport our oceans there somehow before they evaporate, but our survival as a species without interstellar travel and without another water planet seem highly questionable. Strangely, we may have already found a true water planet, GJ1214b, but the water is estimated to be at around 200C. GJ1214b is only about 40 light years away, which is very, very close by galactic standards, and eventually may be reachable in less than a human lifetime.

With untested, but plausible current tech that trip would now take us somewhere between 400 and 800 years, but we could conceivably build orbiting space stations which could use that planet as a relatively nearby source of water. Why GJ1214b hasn't lost all of its water to space despite the hot 200c temperature is a matter of some speculation. We aren't even sure it really is a water world. It may be a hot mini-neptune instead.

There is some speculation that the Jovian moon Europa may have subsurface liquid water oceans and of course that could make Europa a wonderful second home for us, especially with a hotter, larger sun. It still wouldn't be habitable of course, but it would allow us to build habitats on the surface or orbiting around it.

 

[Infinitron]

updated my jewboy.txt

 

[Haba]

Said a jewboy to a jewboy

 

[janjetina]

While combat was secondary in importance in the Planescape: Torment, the number of combat encounters indicates that it wasn't (or at least it shouldn't have been) just an afterthought. Majority of the players, even those who loved the game (like me), agree that combat was the worst part of the game. The players who generally like RPGs, but don't like PS:T, most frequently cite bad combat as the reason. If Torment had turn based combat like Fallout, which was not very challenging, but was quick, reflected character and equipment progression well, had variety of encounters and funny text descriptions, it would have been nearly perfect.

It makes no sense for Torment 2 to repeat the flaws of its predecessor. People must learn from their mistakes, not pass them off as features. Being spiritual successor of Torment does not mean having equally bad combat.

When it comes to combat, combat system and encounter design in sinergy with the character system determine its quality.
Given that, Torment 2 team has a few options for dealing with combat, given that the adventure game approach of 'no combat' is out of the question. One option, that has already been promised, is the improved encounter design, where combat encounters matter and there is no filler combat that encourages grinding. Another one is the choice of the combat system.

First of all, combat system should not be twitch-based and that's a given, since turn-based and RTWP are the options that are being considered. When it comes to that choice, experience has shown that the turn based combat system is well suited to implement both engaging combat with tactical depth (e.g. JA 2) and simple yet fun combat (with brevity of combat encounters being a crucial component, e.g. Fallout). On the other hand, RTWP combat systems haven't really been able to achieve either.

Since (givent the nature of the game) the development team doesn't want to (and shouldn't) spend too many resources on combat, what makes most sense is taking and adapting the existing combat system from Wasteland 2. Intention of making combat RTWP if campaign is more successsful is absurd - why would you spend additional resources to implement inferior combat system? Spend additional resources on the story, characters, setting and other components crucial to the Torment game.

It is quite clear what the choice should be and it should also be clear when this choice should be made. It seems quite difficult to communicate the specifics of a story based game such as Torment to potential backers without spoiling too much, yet potential backers need to know what they would get for their money. It makes sense for the team to communicate all the determined aspects of the game which are not of a spoiler nature. Choice of a combat system is such an aspect. Additionally, since combat system is one of the high level defining features of the RPG, it makes sense that a high level decision on combat system should be made before the pitch starts. Imagine that instead of a kickstarter campaign a developer was pitching to a distributor: "We're making a Torment sequel, yet we don't know what the combat system will be". It seems ridiculous.

I will definitely contribute either way, but the size of my contribution will hinge on those two things: whether the combat system is known and whether it's the one I like.

 

[Infinitron]

First of all, combat system should not be twitch-based and that's a given, since turn-based and RTWP are the options that are being considered. When it comes to that choice, experience has shown that the turn based combat system is well suited to implement both engaging combat with tactical depth (e.g. JA 2) and simple yet fun combat (with brevity of combat encounters being a crucial component, e.g. Fallout). On the other hand, RTWP combat systems haven't really been able to achieve either.

Also, Fallout's combat was "quick"?

It is quite clear what the choice should be and it should also be clear when this choice should be made

Yes, the clear choice is to alienate as few of PS:T's fans as possible in a Kickstarter that is based entirely on nostalgia for said game. You don't do that by radically changing its combat system.

 

[janjetina]

First of all, combat system should not be twitch-based and that's a given, since turn-based and RTWP are the options that are being considered. When it comes to that choice, experience has shown that the turn based combat system is well suited to implement both engaging combat with tactical depth (e.g. JA 2) and simple yet fun combat (with brevity of combat encounters being a crucial component, e.g. Fallout). On the other hand, RTWP combat systems haven't really been able to achieve either.

Also, Fallout's combat was "quick"?

It is quite clear what the choice should be and it should also be clear when this choice should be made

Yes, the clear choice is to alienate as few of PS:T's fans as possible in a Kickstarter that is based entirely on nostalgia for said game. You don't do that by radically changing its combat system.

There are fans of PS:T combat? There are RTWP games with deep, tactical combat on par with JA 2? Which ones?

 

[Infinitron]

There are fans of PS:T combat?

No, but there are people that will be alienated if you attempt to change the formula to something they think is even worse. Storyfags. TB-haters. I'm not saying they are justified or rational, but this will happen.

There are RTWP games with deep, tactical combat on par with JA 2?

There are TB CRPGs with deep, tactical combat on par with JA2?

Reposting:

Just as TB fans lionize Jagged Alliance 2, which isn't really a proper RPG, RTwP fans can hold up games like Freedom Force, as well as various larger scale RTSes.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

And to be honest, I'd rather see them focusing on the one game and completing that to their best of their ability, rather than getting distracted by having multiple teams and projects to work on at once. Hell, they could even use the profits from the first game to make the second one better.

As somebody with business management experience, I trust you're aware of the implications of a game developer "focusing on one game"?

Yes, the game might actually be good.

 

[hiver]

Thats just some people trying to stake higher moral ground of being a "PST fan" which is supposed to mean RtwP, as opposed to those who would prefer Turn based which are then somehow not that elite group of PST fans.

A bunch of manure.

 

[Infinitron]

And to be honest, I'd rather see them focusing on the one game and completing that to their best of their ability, rather than getting distracted by having multiple teams and projects to work on at once. Hell, they could even use the profits from the first game to make the second one better.

As somebody with business management experience, I trust you're aware of the implications of a game developer "focusing on one game"?

Yes, the game might actually be good.

Come on, DU. Turn on your financial analysis mode like you did for Obsidian way back when.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Oh, I know they're fucked. Which is why I think they should just do one game, rather than risk two - and sack people when they don't have work for them. Two now means they're more likely to spend funds meant on one project, for the other, just to get it out the door in the hopes it will make enough to cover the next one.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, I know they're fucked. Which is why I think they should just do one game, rather than risk two - and sack people when they don't have work for them.

'k.

Brother None, any comments?

 

[Western]

There are fans of PS:T combat?

No, but there are people that will be alienated if you attempt to change the formula to something they think is even worse. Storyfags. TB-haters. I'm not saying they are justified or rational, but this will happen.

There are RTWP games with deep, tactical combat on par with JA 2?

There are TB CRPGs with deep, tactical combat on par with JA2?

Reposting:

Just as TB fans lionize Jagged Alliance 2, which isn't really a proper RPG, RTwP fans can hold up games like Freedom Force, as well as various larger scale RTSes.

The only rational action is to put it to the community, what combat system do they want? That's the thing that will alienate the fewest people. That said turn based combat will apparently need fewer resources to implement so it already has that going for it.

Also while I'm not dismissing RTwP/real time out of hand I believe it needs to be built from the ground up (like Eternity), this is an implementation of a P&P system. I don't think we've yet seen a better implementation of RTwP over turn based from a P&P system.
,

 

[Infinitron]

The only rational action is to put it to the community, what combat system do they want? That's the thing that will alienate the fewest people.

I agree that they should try to nail this during the Kickstarter if at all possible. Or at least rule out one system (remember, there are three options - RTwP, TB and PB)

 

[Spectacle]

Oh, I know they're fucked. Which is why I think they should just do one game, rather than risk two - and sack people when they don't have work for them. Two now means they're more likely to spend funds meant on one project, for the other, just to get it out the door in the hopes it will make enough to cover the next one.

And then they'd have to start from scratch when building a team for the next game. Sacking the pre-production staff would be extremely short-sighted if there is any way to avoid it.