To the moon

[IDtenT]

It wasn't a retarded attack, "yur game sucks" or something like it, I just said I was dissapointed that the game threw away all the story it biulded up to. He replied to me that he actually thought that was the best ending for the couple, and that he didn't consider that keeping the memmories would be something some people would prefer.

Even if, as you say, it were to make us dwell on it, there should have been a momment of choice. I really was troubled that the woman wanted to erase the memmories and really tried hard to stop her in that weird chase sequence, only to be denied and forced down a shitty ending. So the game teased me "I'll do something you don't want", teased me to spot it, and them did it anyway... sure, it's the developer's vision for the ending of the game, and he has all right to do so, by as such, so have I to disagree with it.

I just don't understand your argument.

 

[felipepepe]

I just don't understand your argument.

I'm butthurted that the author gave a shitty ending to a good story, and worse, that is happy about that.

Ew, putting it like that makes me feel like an entitled bioware fanboy... are you happy now?

 

[aris]

Talking about games with SNES graphics and good music, I just bought lone survivor too, only played the beginning, seems solid so far and seems to have a good athmosphere.

Anyone played it?

 

[Jasede]

Comparing that music sample to Chrono Trigger is a disgrace.
I understand your emotions and why you'd experience them but the fact of the matter is, that tune has none of the imagination, inventiveness and sheer skill that went into each and every Chrono Trigger composition. This may sound rude of me, and I suppose it is, but you can't compare those skill levels- or budgets. There's miles and miles in between.

 

[IDtenT]

Chrono Trigger is still Japanese.

 

[Jasede]

I don't understand what you are trying to say or why the troll emote is appropriate.

 

[IDtenT]

Nevermind. The moment is lost. I was playing on the PC Master Race's Jap hatred.

 

[Jasede]

Oh, I see.
It's a silly phobia anyway, considering all the great games we had the priviledge to enjoy, largely thanks to the (past) surge of the Japanese video game market.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Codexer coming into the forum of the developer, trying to be all edgy sitting on his high horse:

If there's any philosophical lesson I learned from this game, it's not one pertaining to the Phillip K. Dick-esque ones of choices, destiny, loved ones, or any of the themes sloppily, sappily and incoherently touched upon in it. I caved in, but still I knew that when the whole Internet is singing the praises of something, it's a red light to beware and pay attention. Most likely, it's not a telltale sign of exceptional quality, of something deserving to stand the test of time. Rather, it's a sign that a particular lousy and vocal crowd has found especially titillating material (in that case, a pretentious, pseudo-intellectual/emotional videogame supposedly lending the medium its lettres de noblesse).

To come back to the lesson I learned, it's to steer clear of games made by hipsters who think it's funny to insert dozens of embarrassing Internet memes and other snarky fourth-wall breaking lines into a three hours-long game of slowly panning the camera around in unending and painful cutscenes, moving two of the most unlikeable and obnoxious videogame protagonists ever penned at the speed of a snail, and getting involved in pixel hunting more tedious and pointless than in the worst budget East-european point and click adventure game I've ever played, without any of the clever puzzles.

Developer completely round-kicks his face with this response:

Heya Id, sorry you didn't like it! While a lot of the things pointed out seems to be an overall stylistic preference, I'm sure there are things I could improve on to hopefully help in the future. In the mean time, if you could PM/email me your order ref #, I'd be happy to do a refund.

Haha, that statement about my credit card was more of a rhetorical device. No I don't want to get refunded or anything like that. At the end of the day I like indies, and I like people trying to aim high and come up with something different, even if I am not particularly smitten by the result

Hehehe, that person was actually me, I can say it now.

Ultimately I'm not edgy and prefer to be a diplomat.

I remember I felt really frustrated by the pointlessness and vapidity of the gameplay, meta humor, and especially the awkward, illogical ending.

 

[MRY]

I actually thought that, for all its faults, for all its emotional exploitation (from melody on down!), To the Moon was a pretty moving game. That said, I thought the game's biggest failing was not actually the ending itself, but the immediate undoing of the game's tragedy. The happy ending could be defensible if the player were left to suffer for a while in the belief that the guy had lost the girl forever. But the time from removing the girl to her reappearing at NASA is like 10 minutes. If it were an hour, and you watched the guy grope about listlessly through life or something, I think the "he can have his cake and eat it too" ending would have been effective and entirely satisfactory. It's just that the game relieved the tension too quickly.

The game's second biggest failing was the way autism/Asperger's was treated as some gigantic mystery, like demonic possession or something. If anything, I'd imagine that people will be even faster to suggest someone suffers from the disorder in the future. It's not like this is A Canticle for Liebowitz or something, and they've lost all knowledge of the past. In the same vein, the guy's horrible secret -- "I was attracted to her because she seemed different, and I thought she'd help me feel unique as well" -- seemed so innocuous and, frankly, reasonable, I didn't understand that aspect of the plot at all. Falling in love with someone because you think they will enrich your life and give it meaning is a good enough reason to fall in love. There are certainly worse ones. The way the plot sets it up, I was expecting to learn that he'd abused her in some way, perhaps drugged her or done an In the Company of Men style humiliation.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

One thing that is ridiculous is that GamesRadar has included it at like number 74 of the best games of all time, far higher than many much more worthy games, which is patently ridiculous.

 

[felipepepe]

In the same vein, the guy's horrible secret -- "I was attracted to her because she seemed different, and I thought she'd help me feel unique as well" -- seemed so innocuous and, frankly, reasonable, I didn't understand that aspect of the plot at all. Falling in love with someone because you think they will enrich your life and give it meaning is a good enough reason to fall in love. There are certainly worse ones.

I got what the story was saying... It was not to enrich, but rather to set him apart that he saught her at first. He was the same as a person that dates for only money, all he saw in her was her Asperger's, and how dating her would make him *special*... is a really low thing to do. His weight is the same as saying "I started to date you only for your money"...

It's been 2 years since I played, but IIRC, after he confess that to her, she seemly distance herself a bit more, almost as if becoming more fo the "special" that he saught at first... details like this are what makes the story very moving IMHO.

 

[aris]

Comparing that music sample to Chrono Trigger is a disgrace.
I understand your emotions and why you'd experience them but the fact of the matter is, that tune has none of the imagination, inventiveness and sheer skill that went into each and every Chrono Trigger composition. This may sound rude of me, and I suppose it is, but you can't compare those skill levels- or budgets. There's miles and miles in between.

Seeing that the music is wihtout a doubt very inspired by the music of Nobou Uematsu and chrono trigger, I can't disagree with you. Where you misunderstood me though, is the part where I according to you compared that piece to chrono trigger, I didn't. I said it evoced chrono trigger, together with the scene (something I think was very intentional). And even though it might not be as ground breaking, I still think it is good music as it is. And sure, you can't really compare the giant Nobou Uematsu to him: To the moon was, after all, his second attempt at making a game, a game he pretty much made all by himself.

I actually thought that, for all its faults, for all its emotional exploitation (from melody on down!), To the Moon was a pretty moving game. That said, I thought the game's biggest failing was not actually the ending itself, but the immediate undoing of the game's tragedy. The happy ending could be defensible if the player were left to suffer for a while in the belief that the guy had lost the girl forever. But the time from removing the girl to her reappearing at NASA is like 10 minutes. If it were an hour, and you watched the guy grope about listlessly through life or something, I think the "he can have his cake and eat it too" ending would have been effective and entirely satisfactory. It's just that the game relieved the tension too quickly.

The game's second biggest failing was the way autism/Asperger's was treated as some gigantic mystery, like demonic possession or something. If anything, I'd imagine that people will be even faster to suggest someone suffers from the disorder in the future. It's not like this is A Canticle for Liebowitz or something, and they've lost all knowledge of the past. In the same vein, the guy's horrible secret -- "I was attracted to her because she seemed different, and I thought she'd help me feel unique as well" -- seemed so innocuous and, frankly, reasonable, I didn't understand that aspect of the plot at all. Falling in love with someone because you think they will enrich your life and give it meaning is a good enough reason to fall in love. There are certainly worse ones. The way the plot sets it up, I was expecting to learn that he'd abused her in some way, perhaps drugged her or done an In the Company of Men style humiliation.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up for me too. I think this guy has talent though, seeing as it is only his second game, I will definitely be following what he does in the future.

 

[Jasede]

All right, fair enough. I definitely misunderstood and read too much into what you wrote.

 

[MRY]

It was not to enrich, but rather to set him apart that he saught her at first. He was the same as a person that dates for only money, all he saw in her was her Asperger's, and how dating her would make him *special*... is a really low thing to do. His weight is the same as saying "I started to date you only for your money"...

I'm not sure that's right. The reason why we frown on people marrying just for money is as much a Puritanical / aristocratic disdain for moneymaking as it is a feeling that people shouldn't marry for benefits. The same would be true if you said it was like he wanted to be with her because she was a celebrity -- we tend to view the pursuit of celebrity, like the pursuit of money, as problematic. The same is even true if you said it was like he wanted to be with her because she was beautiful. In his case, he just always felt like a nobody because he was overshadowed by his brother. Wanting to feel like you're unique and important isn't ignoble, even if it can be pathological (as we keep hearing about Millennials). I mean, isn't it roughly like a generally lousy person pursuing a saintly person, saying "You seemed so good and noble, and I just wanted to feel good and noble, even if it was only through you?"

Even if we take the comparisons above, would they really be so crushing? "The reason I was originally attracted to you was because of your money -- I was destitute and desperate, and you seemed like you'd offer me security." If you told someone that years into a happy marriage, I think they would just laugh about it. Same with celebrity or beauty.

I dunno, it just doesn't quite work for me. But maybe I'm missing it.

 

[felipepepe]

Humm, don't know, it may be heavily influenced by the personality and culture the person has... besides, as men I don't think we are qualified to delve into the depths woman's logic.

 

[MicoSelva]

I'm playing through this right now (4-hour game, already a week of gaming for me ). I did not see anything special in it at first but after a few time-jumps, I got really interested in the story and am looking forward to how it develops further. Still, I believe it would be better not as a game but as some form of non-interactive media, as the 'gameplay' is very rudimentary and superficial.

 

[Gragt]

Humm, don't know, it may be heavily influenced by the personality and culture the person has... besides, as men I don't think we are qualified to delve into the depths woman's logic.

Woman's what?

More seriously, there's nothing preventing a man from from understanding women, and vice-versa. If it was so, art would be a dull thing.

 

[MicoSelva]

I'm not being cynical, it did move me and I was really into River & Johhny relationship. That's exactly why I hated so much the ending! It's not "shitty bland hipster stuff", it's a game that apart from the annoying humor was doing everything right, but after the stargazing scene, instead of going for the mature & deep ending, it goes fairy tale shit! In a way so frustrating that it ruins the entire game.

I wanted an mature ending, Johhny remembering everything and being able to understand River again. Shit, I would cry if there were a scene of adult River asking what Johnny sees in the paper bunnies, and he replying "the Moon". That's whats this game should be about, not just throwing alway all their hard but beatiful life in favour of LITERALLY going to the Moon. It makes everything seems pointless and that either you have a perfect Disney "dreams come true" life or you will die unhappy...bullshit.

I wasn't playing for the graphics, humor or mini-games, I wanted the story. The story ends so horribly I feel cheated and disapointed, all the build-up is wasted, thus the game ends up being a bad game. I got so pissed I even registered at the games forum and asked the writer about it here, and I am still bashing his head on the wall trying to figure out why! He says that's because the real River is dead, and the contractual obligation the scientist have is to make Johnny be happy and go to the Moon, but clearly Johnny would be much happier metaphorically "going to the moon" (thus fulfilling the contract) and finally understanding his wife and how much she loved him. That would be a great life lesson, a great and mature game with a deep story. Sadly, it's not.

Sometimes I wonder if there is any point in me posting on the Codex, as more often than not I find that felipepepe has already said what I wanted to say, and did it better than I would.

Anyway, I liked the game overall, but I would like it much more if

Spoiler

not for the forced happy end. The story would be (IMO) so much better if going to the moon was metaphorical, not literal. For example, it could be an echo of his dead brother's dreams of writing sci-fi. 'I will write this, John, I will take you to the moon, you'll see' - or something like that.

Overall, it was good. I actually liked the humor and the scientists' personalities. I did not like the gameplay, because it was boring and got in the way of the story. Wadjet Eye games are so much better at combining these two elements together (I've played Blackwell 1-3 directly before To The Moon, hence the comparison). Still, pretty fine, and definitely worth the time to play through.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I agree with your sentiments about the ending. It does kind of cheapen the story. I suspect it was yet another "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" ripoff, though. This game steals a good deal from that film, which ended with the character's re-meeting and starting a new life after their memories of each other had been obliterated...only they meet in different circumstance which might give their relationship hope. I think that's the thing that "To The Moon's" trying to pull off. The characters originally met in less than ideal situations and they never really connected with each other for various reasons. So, in the end, the protagonists memories are obliterated and he gets a chance for a second meeting and a second life with his wife, one where the compulsion to go to the moon is satisfied from the start.

I agree, though, that because this is all in his head it feels kind of cheap and it completely destroys the relationship they had in real life. I think every relationship will have its impossible desires and goals which can act as road blocks, hence "going to the moon." The real way of dealing with that isn't by going to the moon in a fantasy simulator, but rather is by coming to terms with the fact that you'll never go to the moon anyway. Even if you get to the moon, some other impossible desire/goal will appear to become your new "going to the moon."

 

[SwiftCrack]

Oh yeah I played this recently. Shit is overrated as hell. And yes I 'get' everything related to the games story.

 

[Surf Solar]

Thanks to SuicideBunny I got a chance to play the game and ended it after 4 hours in one sitting, like other people reported too in terms of length.

I really liked it. Some parts were touching and sometimes I felt it was a bit too much tear-jerky. I guess that's why some people are put off by it. You also have to like the cutesy graphics, me, it just reminded me of some rpgs I played back then on the SNES so it was a nice nostalgia trip. I have to agree on the complaints about the story, I didn't like the way the scientist woman overwrote the memories of the dying guy with this fake happy ending stuff and would have loved if they rather resolved to the guy in his mind why the woman was making those rabbit origamis. Still, it was a touching little story that I wanted to experience further and enjoyed it, so it's nice that a few games can do this.

Even though the humour was cheesy sometimes ("I am Doctor Lorenco Matterhorn ) it was tolerable. Liked that the scientist guy was secretely moved by it too but ofcourse didn't show it openly.

 

[aris]

You're an alright guy Surf Solar

 

[Konjad]

A fucking masterpiece written by a single guy in a year in a half in his room with RPG Maker. It does to video games what "Sunrise" from Murnau did for cinema: transcend the medium. 4 hours of really casual gaming/10 euros. Spread the word.

I gave it a try. When professional game reviewers give something 10/10 you know it's gonna be a turd, but I tried anyway to taste it myself and indeed I was not surprised. Gameplay is barely existant, but that is expected from the game's description already, but the story itself is unremarkable and inspid.

Let this thread be a proof that back in the day there were plenty of retadred codexers with terrible taste as well.

 

[Darkozric]

but I tried anyway to taste it

Why are you doing this masochistic shit to yourself?