To do list and sound effects

[Fryjar]

Since we are mainly focusing on Elhoims interfaces I'm curious what you and your team are doing right now Vd. I guess some kind of to do list would be interesting for us, so that we can probably contribute more efficiently, if that's still possible.
For instance are you still twaking the graphics? Are you adding more quests and dialogue options or are you "just" polishing the writing?

Aside from that there's one topic that hasn't been discussed so far: Sound effects in dialogue options. What I'm actually referring to, is the kind of sounds that you received in Planescape for instance, when you had a flashback or gained experience.
I guess that these elements, if implemented properly, help to improve the atmosphere greatly.
For example some kind of sound, when you succeed in your "dialogue trap game".

On a different note:
As a fan of the Arkania series I'm curious if you will have similar expanded options in taverns or are still considering to add some of these ones.
Elements like playing an instrument, dancing and so on to gain some money were quite interesting and you could certainly tie these ones to a high dexterity skill.
More fundamental though, was the option to get access to rumours or get contact with new people by paying for a round.
The way to deal with people in newer games is in my opinion not quite as convincing and appealing, since instead of having to walk from table to table for some news a simple dialogue box with options would do the same in a more convenient (and "realistic") manner. So, what's your take on this one?

 

[Vault Dweller]

My computer at work crashed, taking my 90% finished reply to the dark void, so here is a very short version:

Since we are mainly focusing on Elhoims interfaces I'm curious what you and your team are doing right now Vd. I guess some kind of to do list would be interesting for us, so that we can probably contribute more efficiently, if that's still possible.
For instance are you still twaking the graphics? Are you adding more quests and dialogue options or are you "just" polishing the writing?

- tweaking quests & dialogues (adding/removing/rewriting what's necessary)
- tweaking the combat system & AI (defining combat classes that fight differently)
- tweaking maps (splitting rather bland town maps into 4-5 smaller, better defined maps).

Btw, is there a gifted concept artist here?

Aside from that there's one topic that hasn't been discussed so far: Sound effects in dialogue options.

We don't have any at the moment.

As a fan of the Arkania series I'm curious if you will have similar expanded options in taverns or are still considering to add some of these ones.
Elements like playing an instrument, dancing and so on to gain some money were quite interesting and you could certainly tie these ones to a high dexterity skill.

Nope, too jolly.

More fundamental though, was the option to get access to rumours or get contact with new people by paying for a round.
The way to deal with people in newer games is in my opinion not quite as convincing and appealing, since instead of having to walk from table to table for some news a simple dialogue box with options would do the same in a more convenient (and "realistic") manner. So, what's your take on this one?

I agree with you. We use group dialogue for things like that. Something like: you make small talk with the guards...

 

[HardCode]

Here is the Mount&Blade concept artist:

http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php? ... le;u=10127

http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/ ... 751.0.html

M&B Forum Name: Ganbat

 

[Zomg]

Wow, that guy is a fucking thunderclap.

 

[obediah]

Well, I don't work cheap. But to give you sample of the my artistic merit, I present "War dog OMFG!!!1111!!" It only took about 3 hours for me to finish this - I'm brilliant and fast.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wow! It's like the dog is alive and looking at me. Photorealism at its finest!

 

[suibhne]

I can see the fear in the dog's eyes.

 

[Cthulhugoat]

Man, I never knew dogs had no ears and rifles coming from their asses in the Old Rome. Thanks for the history lesson! Living and learning, every day!

 

[Stalagmite]

I see a cat rubbing his eyes on the dogs shoulders!

 

[One Wolf]

As a fan of the Arkania series I'm curious if you will have similar expanded options in taverns or are still considering to add some of these ones.
Elements like playing an instrument, dancing and so on to gain some money were quite interesting and you could certainly tie these ones to a high dexterity skill.

Nope, too jolly.

i'm relieved you wrote that.

 

[One Wolf]

Here is the Mount&Blade concept artist:

http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php? ... le;u=10127

http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/ ... 751.0.html

M&B Forum Name: Ganbat

yeah that guy is very good.

scroll down on this http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=62076&page=4&highlight=ganbat

 

[Kos_Koa]

Btw, is there a gifted concept artist here?

I’m a concept artist who’s often called “gifted”, and when I make a pretty picture I get a “Way to go champ… HIGH FIVE!!!”

But seriously, what exactly are you looking for? Assuming you are done with all the preliminary design work for the game, I'm guessing marketing renders?

 

[Vault Dweller]

We are splitting the town maps into several smaller maps. I can use this opportunity to define locations better and improve the style. So I need someone who can transform some ideas I have into clear visual concepts for the modeler to work with. If you want to give it a try, I'll email some things.

 

[Blahblah Talks]

Wow! It's like the dog is alive and looking at me. Photorealism at its finest!

Graphics whore.

 

[One Wolf]

miniature versions of some of ganbat's "warrior" themed work for those too lazy to click the link:

 

[suibhne]

His stuff is fantastic. If I were making a game, I'd hire him in a heartbeat to do chapter screens, not just concepts.

 

[Kos_Koa]

We are splitting the town maps into several smaller maps. I can use this opportunity to define locations better and improve the style. So I need someone who can transform some ideas I have into clear visual concepts for the modeler to work with. If you want to give it a try, I'll email some things.

I see. Well, I’m fairly busy with my full-time gig to take on a freelance project, but the prospect of working on a game that I might actually want to play is pretty tempting (and sadly rare these days). I’ll pm you my email address, send me what you have and we’ll see what we can do.

 

[Fez]

ganbat is a superb concept artist, no doubt about it. A great find for M&B. I hope they are taking advantage of his skills.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Does he use photos as a template? Some of these remind me strongly of a book with early photographs of american indians I once leafed through.Either way it's very neat stuff.

 

[Ivied]

I actually don't see too much about sound in this topic, so I'll ask: do you plan the sound to be connected to specific location? How rich the sound will be? In recent games this aspect is almost completely ignored while sound is the cheapest and easiest way to create the atmosphere. I still remember streets of Sigil - full of life while there was only a handfull, more or less static NPCs on the streets. I was actually laughing seeing their miserable attempt to make city streets more "living" in Oblivion by making NPCs that wandered around and talked like after some serious head injury. And in backround some silly orchestra music that has nothing to do with the place.

 

[Fryjar]

@Vd: Regarding the sound effects again: Is there any chance that at least the major ones will be implemented?
I guess it wouldn't take that much time to implement a sound for gained experience points or a set off trap while it might help the immersion during dialogue (obviously the latter more than the former).

Besides, one interesting question that was brought up in another thread hasn't been answered ,yet.
What's your policy regarding additional (minor) feature implementations through downloads in the future? I guess your hard pressed to release the game and so some elements need to be cut. So ist here a chance to see them implemented, after the release or do you want to focus on bug fixes?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I actually don't see too much about sound in this topic, so I'll ask: do you plan the sound to be connected to specific location? How rich the sound will be?

No plans for sound effects at the moment.

@Vd: Regarding the sound effects again: Is there any chance that at least the major ones will be implemented?

There is always a chance. If one of you fine gentlemen finds us sound effects that we can use, why not?

What's your policy regarding additional (minor) feature implementations through downloads in the future?

We are not corporate enough to have policies yet. I don't mind tweaking the game after it's released, but then again... The game is either successful or not. It's the former, then there is no reason to waste time on minor upgrades as I'd rather start working on another game instead. If it's the latter, then no amount of tweaking will save it. In other words, the answer is mostly no.

I guess your hard pressed to release the game and so some elements need to be cut.

Not really. I will release the game when I'm satisfied with every feature and element. I want to release a quality game. If it takes a bit longer than I expected, so be it. I will not cut a single feature to speed things up. I simply can't afford to.

 

[MF]

At the very least have some elementary sound effects like the "clunk" confirmation that you clicked on something in Geneforge. General muzzle, explosion and death sounds are also quite important. You don't need to go all-out if the background music is good enough, but silence can be pretty tedious for the auditive person. If your music guy is worth is salt he'll be able to whip up a few basic sound effects. Alternatively, just steal some. There are plenty of public domain soundbytes out there you can use. Sounddogs.com also has pretty cheap packs for sale.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

What's the status on sound effect in general, at the moment? What do you have effects for, and how many variants for each effect-trigger do you have (IE, how many different "sword-clanks")? Working with filming and video myself, I know how good sound effects can turn something bad into decent and something decent into real good. You can have the best footage ever, perfect framing, awesome colors and great camera movement, but if the sound is messed up, the you're fucked. Look at any professional news program, their footage is usually shit, but when combined with a properly executed voice over that doesn't really matter. That goes for what they actually say as well. Proper articulation and sound quality=anything goes (case in point: Fox News). This most certainly apply to games too. I just re-installed Turok 2 on a recent LAN-party, and while it's not exactly the epitome of great games, it had some decent blood effects for it's time. Anyway, what really struck me was their really really sucky sound-effects. There usually was only one sound for every action, and a poor one at that. When those sounds is repeated ad nauseam (like the jumping sounds in the Quake-games) that really drags the game experience down. Combine the above with a complete lack of ambient noise, you have a game that is a complete pain to play.

Ambient noise is extremely important. As someone mentioned, the ambiance in PS:T really made the game come alive. Heroes of Might and Magic II is another gem, where the ambient noise really contributed to the gaming experience as a whole. While I don't expect anything of that caliber, I definitely hope that there will be some contentum of sorts. Just some random wind-noise in a loop would suffice. Total silence, if only lasting for those three seconds between two songs, is a rape of the ears. It's something of the most unnatural the ear can be exposed to. If you've been to a echo-free room (don't know the exact term in English) in a studio, you'll know that there is nothing as schizophrenia-inducing as that. While total silence in a movie or a game isn't as extreme as that, due to the ambient noise of the room the viewer/player is in, it'll still be noticed on some sub-conscious level. While the player won't necessarily go "Whoa that's some seriously lacking ambiance, right there", he will definitely get that creepy feeling that something is really wrong, but he just cant' point his finger to exactly what.

No plans for sound effects at the moment.

I seem to recall that this was your reply to music as well, when that was inquired about, a year ago. Now you have an awesome artist who have made a complete soundtrack for the game. Don't let the sound effects end up in the back ally of the musical score. On a side note, the music does loop, yes? I hate games where the songs are played once, and then you're left of with the ambiance (or worse: total silence).

There is always a chance. If one of you fine gentlemen finds us sound effects that we can use, why not?

• http://www.sound-effects-library.com/
• http://www.sounddogs.com/
• http://filmsound.org/sound-effects/libraries.htm
• http://www.sound-ideas.com/

This is just from the top of my head. While most of those sites are directed towards film and video, there is nothing in the way of using it in a game. You have to wade through a lot of pure shit before finding what you're looking for, though. Much like that forum you got your concept artist from, there are a lot of similar communities for sound-engineers and Foley-artists. I personally know a few guys who probably wouldn't mind making some effects or ambient noise, given proper directions for what you're looking for. That being said, if you take the ambiance of a some abandonware game and change the pitch slightly, it's impossible to trace back to the original source.(Not that I'm encouraging stealing of sound or anything, just saying )

Not really. I will release the game when I'm satisfied with every feature and element. I want to release a quality game. If it takes a bit longer than I expected, so be it. I will not cut a single feature to speed things up. I simply can't afford to.

In that case, don't release your game unless the following criteria is met:

• At least three different versions of each effect. (thinking of fighting effects, or effects that will occur repeatedly after one another in whatever situation)
• At least three different pitches of those effects. (unless your engine supports randomizing the pitch of a sound effect)
• At least one contentum/ambient noise for each area...
• ..lasting for at least two minutes.

While this may sound like a hell of a lot, there isn't really that much work into it, once you have a guy who knows what he's doing and isn't all that perfectionist. Hell, for all I know you might have all of the above in already, and I just wasted half an hour of typing shit you know.

Edit: Ok, so MF beat me to half of my points. By three days, no less. There you have me pointing out the exact same thing in the non-lethal combat-thread, only to go about doing it myself. Bah.

Edit2: More like all my points. And in a far less talkative manner, at that. Doubble bah.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Please no "random wind noise in a loop" (makes me think of the nauseating loop played during sandstorms in Morrowind)!!! Bad ambient noises is a source of constant irritation while games like the Avernum series or Gearhead, that use few if any ambient sounds, are perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned. If you include ambient sounds you better make them good and subtle.