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Three new combat flightsims

Burning Bridges

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this seems to be the year for shiny new combat flight sims:

IL2 Cliffs Of Dover a.k.a as Storm Of War a.k.a as Battle Of Britain (release end of March)

DCS: A-10C Warthog http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/e ... s/warthog/ just entered beta test.

Rise Of Flight out for quite some time, now (finally) gets a career mode. And it actually looks nice: http://riseofflight.com/forum/viewtopic ... 45&t=12964

Which one do you intend to get? I tend towards Rise Of Flight depending on the campaign mode. Cliffs Of Dover later, it's to early to tell. As to A10, probably never, but I'd not hesitate to buy something like a Su-25 sim in the Soviet-Afghan War.

Anyway, I find it interesting that a genre that was declared dead many years ago produces several games that all look to be of high quality. Perhaps the last flash in the pan, or perhaps PC gaming is not completely dead.
 

commie

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DCS has shitty copy protection and limited in scope, just the A-10 is pretty boring and the game still uses the ancient Lock On engine(like Black shark), which is a bit rickety these days.

Rise of Flight also has a shitty DRM and stuff for it is released in drips. I'd wait for the 'Gold' edition.

Il-2 'CoD' ;) is the one to get. You'll get a decent selection of aircraft, decent support in patches, Dynamic campaigns out of the box.
 

Burning Bridges

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commie said:
Rise of Flight also has a shitty DRM and stuff for it is released in drips.

I believe the always online requirement was removed, otherwise I'd never want it. As to the pay per plane model, that is something that makes sense to me. It keeps the company afloat to get some money for the planes, which in return finances updates. Besides I prefer to fly one or two really familiar airplanes than 30 odd ones. For example in OFF I only flew Nieuport 17s and Pfalz III.

commie said:
Il-2 'CoD' ;) is the one to get. You'll get a decent selection of aircraft, decent support in patches, Dynamic campaigns out of the box.

No, no dynamic campaign, no dynamic weather. From the videos I begin to wonder if there is any weather at all, or always sunshine. We'll have to wait for the gold version on that one too.
 

Elzair

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What combat Sims have dynamic campaigns apart from Falcon 4.0?
 

J_C

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commie said:
DCS has shitty copy protection and limited in scope, just the A-10 is pretty boring and the game still uses the ancient Lock On engine(like Black shark), which is a bit rickety these days.
We don't have too much jetfighter sims lately, so I guess I have to deal with the old engine. But beside that, I think the Lock On: Flaming Cliffs, Black Shark and A10 are the best modern fighter sims that came out in the last few years.
 

Burning Bridges

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Elzair said:
What combat Sims have dynamic campaigns apart from Falcon 4.0?

SMA already mentioned Battle Of Britain 2 ( the new version ). It even has a strategic layer which works like a strategy game on its own.

I don't know if Over Flanders Fields qualifies as a "dynamic" campaign but it comes with perhaps the mostly lively world in a flight sim ever. There are things going on everywhere around you, in the air and on the ground (infantry movement, artillery fire etc).
 

overtenemy

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Burning Bridges said:
I don't know if Over Flanders Fields qualifies as a "dynamic" campaign but it comes with perhaps the mostly lively world in a flight sim ever. There are things going on everywhere around you, in the air and on the ground (infantry movement, artillery fire etc).

If you like that sort of thing you should maybe lean towards DCS: A-10. In DCS: Black Shark, there's always all sorts of ground activity since missions are very often CAS, you're constantly supporting attacking troops, who are doing things of their own. Very frequently there'll be artillery firing right next to you during takeoff, and it's not merely cosmetic; the shells are aimed and are probably killing people right then and there. The only problem is the ground AI can be lackluster on defense particularly. If you for instance attack a forward enemy line and find a bunch of tanks spaced out 100m from each other or so and begin killing them one by one, they won't bother taking evasive action or smoking. They'll shoot you if you present a target, or more likely will shoot your friendly ground forces attacking them, but smoke? Nah. Trying to find some cover to break line of sight with the attack chopper? Nope.

Also, the campaign while not dynamic does progress differently based upon your performance in the missions. It's also huge as fuck.

Still, it's fucking awesome as hell and I expect DCS: A-10 will be even better, though to be honest I've grown quite accustomed to flying choppers rather than planes. (choose A-10)
 

Trash

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Mig Alley and Red Baron 3d are the flightsims that offered the best campaigns for me. Mig Alley because it has the best dynamic one I've yet to seen and Red Baron 3d because it has the single best career in any flightsim to date. No game since has even come close to what these old warhorses provide.
 

commie

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Burning Bridges said:
]

No, no dynamic campaign, no dynamic weather. From the videos I begin to wonder if there is any weather at all, or always sunshine. We'll have to wait for the gold version on that one too.

I was thinking more along the lines that Lowengrin will make a DCG for it in a week or two as it's probably similar to Il-2 in format. After all, the DCG in the stock Il-2 FB was based on a mod that I think was by him.


Elzair said:
What combat Sims have dynamic campaigns apart from Falcon 4.0?

Apart from those mentioned, there's the Enemy Engaged series with Commanche v Hokum, Apache v Havok and its remakes.

European Air War was dynamic, though limited. Still is one of my all time favorite sims though, just like Il-2 and SWOTL.

Eurofighter Typhoon, despite being sim-lite has a great dynamic campaign where what you do in one mission can have a massive bearing on what happens later. Sink a transport full of tanks and the Russians will have far less ground assets later. Pilots can be shot down and rescued. You sort of run a whole squadron.

Total Air War was mostly dynamic.
 

Burning Bridges

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commie said:
Burning Bridges said:
]

No, no dynamic campaign, no dynamic weather. From the videos I begin to wonder if there is any weather at all, or always sunshine. We'll have to wait for the gold version on that one too.

I was thinking more along the lines that Lowengrin will make a DCG for it in a week or two as it's probably similar to Il-2 in format. After all, the DCG in the stock Il-2 FB was based on a mod that I think was by him.

Yes, but such a program exists for Rise Flight just as well.
 

CreamyBlood

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I've been playing Warbirds on and off for the last few years, just because of it squads and S3's. One death kind of thing, tonnes of planning. A hundred Axis vs the Allies for three hours on a Sunday night.

I've been looking into getting Blackshark now that my system can handle it, but I'm not sure if I can. Plus, I'd like to go multi with that kind of game.

Is Blackshark worth it? I'm seriously considering it.

That or Arma.
 

phanboy_iv

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Rise Of Flight is a pretty excellent game, if you can get over the DRM and the abundant DLC planes. The devs appear to be committed to continual improvement of the game and it has improved significantly since its initial release.
 
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There's another flight sim called "Jet Thunder" from Thunderworks.

FAQ said:
What is this?
With the working title "Jet Thunder: Falkands/Malvinas" (JT:FM), it is an in-depth flight simulation featuring an historically accurate, although dynamic, Falklands/Malvinas war scenario. The project started in late 2002 as a simple simulation of just the Harrier, and first we thought of having only the islands as scenary, as terrain making would be easier with only the isles represented, intended for simple self-publishing in a shareware style... But the positive feedback was so strong and unexpect, and the project quickly has grown to a organized, professional effort with a programming team, art / 3D modelling team, and extensive research work, with full order of battle, historical accuracy, argentine and british flyable aircraft and detailed cockpits/avionics.

What about the flight model?
With a sophisticated physics and torque engine, expect a good feeling of the flight inside the constraints of the featured flyable aircraft. It will include delta-winged supersonic specific dynamics (for the Mirages), twin-prop behavior (for the IA-58 Pucará) and full V/STOL flight (Harrier), providing an extensive and varied range of flight styles.

Will this simulation be based on "super lift flaps" or other cheats to fake V/STOL operations?
No 'cheats'. The featured Harriers will have correct modelling of the RR-Pegasus engine, with the vectoring limits (0 to 98 degrees vectoring in the 4 nozzles, with correct rotation speed of the nozzles and thrust-weight ratio) and the reaction system that kicks in at the slow speeds where the normal control surfaces are useless.

How detailed will be the avionics?
The Agave radar used in the Super Etendard and the Ferranti Blue Fox radar used by the Sea Harriers FRS.1 will be modeled with all their modes, and correct detection ranges. The same level of detail will be present in the Thomson-CSF Cyrano II radar of the Mirage IIIE. RWR and the respective gunsights/HUDs will be also part of the avionics package.

What naval assets will be present? Are ships damageable by Exocet missiles?
It'll include all naval assets to form a correct Order of Battle. Type 22 Frigates (HMS Broadsword, HMS Brilliant), Type 42 Destroyer (Sheffield), Atlantic Conveyor, landing crafts, ARA General Belgrano cruiser, etc. And they will feature full damage modelling and will be subject to anti-ship strikes.

Can I employ the VIFF Harrier techniques in air-to-air combat?
Yes, VIFF (Vectoring In Forward Flight) can be used, with several tactics and in different situations. In its simplest form, rotating slighty down the nozzles in a turning fight will tighten the turn and cause a sudden nose up attitude, putting a Lag Pursuit Sea Harrier in Lead Pursuit and in advantage for a 30mm deflection shot or making easier for an AIM-9L lock. Another typical use is the quick vectoring of the nozzles to avoid an overshoot, or to force an overshoot in a defensive situation. Keep in mind that VIFF doesn't means "stop in mid air and then accelerate instantly", Hollywood-style... If not used properly, you WILL burn a lot of energy and end as a "sitting duck" in the sights of the enemy's wingman.

What are the multiplayer aspects?
It will be server based, with (hopefully) support to Hyperlobby , and at least 16 players at once. Dogfight, COOP and Online Campaigns together against AI-based foes are available.

Isn't the Sea Harrier with AIM-9L and good use of VIFF, a rather unbalanced fighter for online dogfight rooms ?
No. According to expert's advice, the Mirage IIIE is more than a match for the Sea Harrier, in any condition.

What about the campaign system?
The campaign will be dynamic, with the British task force attempting to re-gain the islands from Argentine forces. Argentine starts with more troops and planes. The number of planes in each side at the start of the campaign will be historically correct (making it tougher as you think for the britains, because they started the campaign with only 20 Sea Harriers, Squadrons 800 and 801). The argentineans will also have to make the best use possible of certain limited ammo resources (for exemple, only 5 Super Etendart fighters with 4 Exocet missiles available).This makes for interesting resource management, also the outcome of most missions will influence the outcome of the campaign (for example, in the first Mirage vs. Sea Harrier dogfight with you as a british, fail it and the Argentineans would feel encouraged to make more aggressive use of their Mach-2 interceptors, eventually pushing air superiority over the islands. Enter here the strategic factor of the british Vulcan bombers, in a dynamic campaign they can even fail to reach their targets in the islands, changing completely the outcome of the conflict.

With the dynamic Campaign, will there be a career mode for the player including ranks and medals?
There'll be a career mode starting as a rookie pilot, advancing the career up to a squadron commander. Medals and Promotions will be featured and these will be saved to the personal pilot's log together with statistics, kill ratio and other data.

There will be carrier operations?
Yes, with the McDonnel Douglas A-4Q Skyhawk onboard the argentine carrier ARA 25 de Mayo. And for the british side, onboard the HMS Invincible and HMS Hermes, with short take-off runs through deck ramps to maximize fuel and weapons load, and vertical landings on the deck.

There will be air-to-air refuelling?
Yes, indeed air-to-air refuelling should be present because it was needed for the long range flights from the continent to the islands. The Lockheed KC-130 Hercules of the Fuerza Aerea Argentina was used as refueller in these missions. We're aware that the long-range "Black Buck" operations flew by the british were also heavily based in air-to-air refuelling.

Will the map include Ascension Island (for the Vulcans)?
We're still thinking in the best way to solve the Vulcan/"Black Buck" problem. To extend the map seamlessly to include Ascension Island, will mean getting the entire brazilian coast as well (Vulcans did most of the air-to-air refuelling with Victor tankers parallel to the brazilian coast, in one situation, one missed a refueller and had to make an emergency landing in Brazil/Rio de Janeiro - it was "Black Buck 6", carrying Shrike anti-radiation missiles).

It is technically not impossible to do this, problem is 1) time to create the huge scenary (texture tiles, featured cities in the coastline) 2) extreme RAM usage. A down to earth approach at the moment is to make the Vulcans (currently A.I. only) to ingress in the campaign's map through the most north/east position, they do their business down in the war zone, and return through this same route.

Another approach would be to include Ascension Island as a separated map but co-existing with our current map, with correct distances between the 2 areas correctly calculated as well as flight times and fuel usage - of course there will be a gap between the two areas, but at least players will be able to see Vulcans departing from Ascension Island in direction to their targets, hours away of flight in the south direction.

Who is doing this flight sim?
Thunderworks, a development team with members based mostly in Brazil, Argentina and the UK.

Ss202.jpg


Ss203.jpg


cpit_flying1.jpg


http://www.thunder-works.com/news.htm
 

Muty

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I'm eagerly waiting for Cliffs of Dover too. I love il2 and I think that Oleg is the man when it comes to flight sims.

I tried the Rise of Flight demo and I liked it. I'll probably buy it at some point in the future.

A-10 has starforce? STARFORCE? Didn't this abomination die a long time ago? To think that I wanted to get it...
 

Exmit

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great sims with dynamic campaign

Red Baron 3d

Falcon 4 ( just get the FreeFalcon 5.5 )

Starshatter TGS

(bob2 by rowan was fail imo)




A-10 is on DCS engine and not LOMAC



New starforce (DCS, Flaming Cliffs 2, A-10) is not the old Starforce. It does not install anything, it's just an activation where you type in cd-key and activate via internet.


Lock-on Flaming Cliffs 2 might be the best modern flight sim currently (it has 4 static campaigns though)
 

Nael

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Burning Bridges said:

Pure win...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ-pdvirHDQ&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwC0irAb ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVp9NsYb ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eD_Lo61 ... re=related

There's a reason an antiquated beast like the A-10 still sees action today. A flying Gatling gun the size of a truck will ALWAYS be useful.
 

Exmit

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Forgot there is also Strike FIghters 2. ( development team consists of people from European Air War from microprose)

It also has a dynamic campaign , it's set in cold war.
It's fun because it's not as hard-core as LOMAC or Falcon, and by hardcore i mean you don't have to press 10 buttons to launch a missile or 50 to start your engine. The flight model and damage model IS realistic like in those sims , you just fire missile with 1 button which is good imo as you don't have to spend weeks reading manuals for different planes.

Also the missiles of that era are not as good and you tend to use guns more.
 

Tycn

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A dynamic assortment of generic, flavourless missions, you mean. Doesn't take 10 buttons to launch a missile in LOMAC either, it's rather moderate compared to the likes of DCS. You can learn a plane in a few hours.

Though to its credit I like the way the BLU-1 spins around and explodes (despite being useless).

DCS A-10C has been out for a few weeks. That Falklands sim looks interesting.
 

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