Moonspeak This picture is a pretty accurate depiction of JRPGs

[FriendlyMerchant]

FF7 was always overrated; especially with the handholding tutorial, poor pacing that becomes clear outside of Midgard, excessive cutscenes, and "nothin' personal kid" *teleports behind you* to reuse a character as a later boss fight after you spent the last hour kicking his ass. Grindy gameplay was always terrible. Tactics was better even though it still had the rampant cutscene problem where you have unskippable cutscenes every time you got into a non-random fight and often stopped in beginning of certain character's turns to have a conversation because that's what happens in all the animes and porn visual novels. Except they left out the porn. You wouldn't really see that problem in western games until developers like the highly overrated Bioware started to do that shit in KOTOR.

If FFVII is a gold standard of anything at all, it is of the boldness to experiment even in the face of an established series and high as fuck budgets. Imagine having TWO missable party members in a AAA rpg nowadays.

Fromsoft games have a few missable characters. You could probably play through Elden Ring and miss some of the shopkeepers. Summons are optional. Skyrim and Fallout 4 have companions you can just ignore. They're optional anyways. It's entirely possible to miss a few companions in New Vegas and FO3, especially if you strictly follow the main questlines. I wouldn't consider this as part of "experimenting." The only real experimentation in FF7 was the materia system and optional minigames. Missable and optional party members were in older rpgs (tactics ogre, Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession, and FF6 for example). Many rpgs even had you just create a party immediately. The lack of them is more due to the design constraints of trying to appeal to the AAA audience. AAA also have to have voice acting everywhere and are riddled with the same trash cutscenes and storyfagging movies it just becomes much more expensive to characters.

 

[Kjaska]

Shut the fuck up, nigger.

Actually placing skyrim companions on the same level as party members in ff7. You're retarded. Who gives a rats ass about FroSo characters? They all die at the end of their questline anyway. It's not even a AAA title. Fucking troll.

 

[dacencora]

He is a troll, and this thread is just a bait thread.

Also I don’t think that most JRPG players on this forum hold up FFVII as the gold standard lol. SMT is pretty much the gold standard, as far as I’m aware. There are of course other series that are popular, including Final Fantasy

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Shut the fuck up, nigger.

Actually placing skyrim companions on the same level as party members in ff7. You're retarded. Who gives a rats ass about FroSo characters? They all die at the end of their questline anyway.

You mentioned a feature. I mentioned newer games with that feature. It doesn't matter how they end up in their questline either. What matters is the feature. So what's your problem? Are you retarded? Also, Skyrim is a better game than FF7 and more of an rpg than FF7 ever could be. Fromsoft games are much better too.

Spoiler

It's not even a AAA title. Fucking troll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)
Bandai-Namco is a large publisher. It is in fact AAA. Oh yeah. That would also include BG3 which does have optional/missable party members too since Larian is a mid to large sized company with a medium/large publisher (also Larian).

 

[Kjaska]

Fuck you, troll.

 

[Reinhardt]

BG3 which does have missable party members

nah, no one will miss them. no one will even remember them 2 minutes after meeting.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

BG3 which does have missable party members

nah, no one will miss them. no one will even remember them 2 minutes after meeting.

You won't remember them. But there are a few you have to make certain choices to even talk to and hence "miss."

 

[Reinhardt]

you have to make certain choices to even talk

but why?

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

you have to make certain choices to even talk

but why?

You have the ability to start a fight immediately, making enemies in the area hostile and then have to kill the potential companion as they won't talk to you anymore. You can also bypass some or miss them by not even choosing to talk to the character.

 

[Alphard]

Idc if they are jrpg or wrpg,just gimme good combat and none of degenerate wokeness and i'll buy the game

 

[Reinhardt]

You can also bypass some or miss them by not even choosing to talk to the character.

but why should i bother talking with them?

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

You can also bypass some or miss them by not even choosing to talk to the character.

but why should i bother talking with them?

You don't have to. But if you wanted to, you could. You could depopulate entire regions if you wanted to.

 

[Reinhardt]

at least in old bg games potential party members had portraits. in bg3 you probably can just kill some guy and some other guy without even noticing.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

at least in old bg games potential party members had portraits. in bg3 you probably can just kill some guy and some other guy without even noticing.

You don't see the portraits in BG1+2 until you talk to them. Only hint until then is that they're named when you highlight them which could also just mean they're a named shopkeeper or quest npc as well.

 

[Gastrick]

I don't see what the problem is with missable characters, it's a good thing when you can finish a game without visiting every location or talking to everyone or doing every quest. In the first Fallout for example, if your speaking skills are high enough, then you go straight to the final boss and talk him out of his plan, making just about the entire game "missable".

 

[Falksi]

I won't respect JRPG fans as long as they largely prop FF7 up as some golden standard. Why couldn't japanese people copy the superior Wizardry 6 or 7 rule system rather than stick to 1-5?

Don't they hold Chrono Trigger as the golden standard? I can't think of anyone who says it isn't. FF7 I've heard.

That's the acid test.

It's a proper entry level RPG which is good for a once-through playthrough, but fucking rank on replays because of all the set battles, which are also piss easy too.

Most people I know who are besotted with it think that they play RPGs, but don't (one of the silly cunts listed Devil May Cry 5 in his top 5 RPGs ever ) So it's generally the same mainstream gamers who think that they play Western "RPGs", then state Mass Effect 2 is their fave RPG, totally oblivious to the fact it's really just a shooter with cut-scenes.

If a Weeb recognizes Chrono Trigger as overrated then I instantly have a lot more respect for them and their JRPG opinions. There are some cracking JRPGs out there, but they get drowned out by trend following normies playing a handful, then jumping on the bandwagon and then suffocating social media that they're the greatest thing ever.

If you want to test someone who claims they are a Chrono Trigger fan, ask them what they thought was revolutionary about the game. I'd say 8/10 state "The combo attacks", totally oblivious to the fact that it had been done years earlier. Yet they all worship Chrono Trigger for introducing such things, simply because - like most normies - they don't know their gaming.

 

[Kjaska]

There is no problem from the design point of view. But if you suggest that to some suit who has 200mil+ riding on your next title, he'll get an aneurysm and fire you.

Modern day gamers are entitled cunts who will cry at the slightest hint of inconvenience. Shiiiieeeet, people in the Elden Ring thread are literally complaining because of too much optional content.

 

[Reinhardt]

I don't see what the problem is with missable characters, it's a good thing when you can finish a game without visiting every location or talking to everyone or doing every quest. In the first Fallout for example, if your speaking skills are high enough, then you go straight to the final boss and talk him out of his plan, making just about the entire game "missable".

which requires knowledge about importance of speech skill in final boss encounter and shortest route to him. "missable" is something obscure you don't know about, not something you didn't picked up in current 1231th playthrough.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

I don't see what the problem is with missable characters, it's a good thing when you can finish a game without visiting every location or talking to everyone or doing every quest. In the first Fallout for example, if your speaking skills are high enough, then you go straight to the final boss and talk him out of his plan, making just about the entire game "missable".

The problem is when a big company is expected to have voice acting and animated cutscenes everywhere for all the characters while expecting a 2-3 year development period. Then it becomes a money and time problem. It's cheaper to only put in things you're going to use and the only missibles tend to be minor things.

 

[Gastrick]

is expected to have voice acting and animated cutscenes everywhere

I found the problem.

 

[dacencora]

Hey you wanna know another big difference between modern Western games and JRPGs? A lot of modern JRPGs have many unvoiced lines.

 

[c u in da ballpit ashren]

I won't respect JRPG fans as long as they largely prop FF7 up as some golden standard. Why couldn't japanese people copy the superior Wizardry 6 or 7 rule system rather than stick to 1-5?

Don't they hold Chrono Trigger as the golden standard? I can't think of anyone who says it isn't. FF7 I've heard.

That's the acid test.

It's a proper entry level RPG which is good for a once-through playthrough, but fucking rank on replays because of all the set battles, which are also piss easy too.

Most people I know who are besotted with it think that they play RPGs, but don't (one of the silly cunts listed Devil May Cry 5 in his top 5 RPGs ever ) So it's generally the same mainstream gamers who think that they play Western "RPGs", then state Mass Effect 2 is their fave RPG, totally oblivious to the fact it's really just a shooter with cut-scenes.

If a Weeb recognizes Chrono Trigger as overrated then I instantly have a lot more respect for them and their JRPG opinions. There are some cracking JRPGs out there, but they get drowned out by trend following normies playing a handful, then jumping on the bandwagon and then suffocating social media that they're the greatest thing ever.

If you want to test someone who claims they are a Chrono Trigger fan, ask them what they thought was revolutionary about the game. I'd say 8/10 state "The combo attacks", totally oblivious to the fact that it had been done years earlier. Yet they all worship Chrono Trigger for introducing such things, simply because - like most normies - they don't know their gaming.

I grew up with a brother who sucked off Chrono Trigger like it was the greatest thing ever and I never got why even to this day. The story is simple, can't say much about it, other than time travel. The art style is the best Akira Toriyama's ever done (lel). The music's pretty good but that's expected of Yasu and Nobuo. The gameplay is standard.

Chrono Cross though. May be more of the same but I picked it up recently and I like where it's going. Probably not a popular opinion for sure.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

The art style is the best Akira Toriyama's ever done (lel).

I have to agree. Especially with what came later

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

is expected to have voice acting and animated cutscenes everywhere

I found the problem.

Western indie games often don't have voice acting, i.e. Underrail, Colony Ship, Battle Brothers.

 

[Viata]

shouldn't western fags be playing kwality western rpg games instead of whining in another subforum?

They got none, that is why they are shitposting here.