The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

[DalekFlay]

I think it is obvious that company X tries to minimize their competition as much as possible. However, when a third party like Gamastutra starts to claim that the competition itself is the problem we have a problem. Besides revealing a terrible grasp on economics, it begs the questions what these companies have sold us before they discovered that competition indeed exists? Isn't that basically admitting that they have sold us crap?

The issue is devs have seen this before on the mobile app stores, good shit gets drowned out by the flood of banal crap. Awareness of product is as important as good product in the digital age, that's why EA spends millions on marketing. I don't even check the Steam new release list anymore because it's filled daily with shit I don't care about. I rely on the Codex and similar sites to tell me what's coming out that has any merit. Most people aren't lame enough to post on here though, so some user curation would benefit them. "Benny's RPG Store" could highlight all new and coming RPG games and then I could basically just check that and log out.

 

[Dexter]

The issue is devs have seen this before on the mobile app stores, good shit gets drowned out by the flood of banal crap. Awareness of product is as important as good product in the digital age, that's why EA spends millions on marketing. I don't even check the Steam new release list anymore because it's filled daily with shit I don't care about. I rely on the Codex and similar sites to tell me what's coming out that has any merit. Most people aren't lame enough to post on here though, so some user curation would benefit them. "Benny's RPG Store" could highlight all new and coming RPG games and then I could basically just check that and log out.

Pretty much, I also don't think that the issue is "Greenlight" or similar, but the policies they abstracted from its use. Admitting the best 10 games every month or so wouldn't have been much of an issue, admitting 100+ games every few weeks is.

Like I said back in March already: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-discussion-thread.68581/page-74#post-3182221

I used to use Steam a lot and actually check the Storefront for new releases. Since this figurative avalanche of shit started I don't do that anymore and I haven't bought a single thing on Steam since back in January as a consequence, the only things that I added since then were a few Indie Bundles. If that is the result they expected from this, then good job.

I don't think that "Benny's RPG shop" is a particularly good idea either though.

 

[DalekFlay]

I don't think that "Benny's RPG shop" is a particularly good idea either though.

It's going to be more along the lines of TotalBiscuit having a store full of games he recommends, RPG Codex having the same thing and on and on down the line. Every community and personality worth a damn will have an official or unofficial storefront. Assuming the plan they talked about ever gets done, anyway.

 

[Infinitron]

I wonder if that storefront will pay a percentage.

 

[Kane]

The issue is devs have seen this before on the mobile app stores, good shit gets drowned out by the flood of banal crap. Awareness of product is as important as good product in the digital age, that's why EA spends millions on marketing. I don't even check the Steam new release list anymore because it's filled daily with shit I don't care about. I rely on the Codex and similar sites to tell me what's coming out that has any merit. Most people aren't lame enough to post on here though, so some user curation would benefit them. "Benny's RPG Store" could highlight all new and coming RPG games and then I could basically just check that and log out.

Pretty much, I also don't think that the issue is "Greenlight" or similar, but the policies they abstracted from its use. Admitting the best 10 games every month or so wouldn't have been much of an issue, admitting 100+ games every few weeks is.

Like I said back in March already: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-discussion-thread.68581/page-74#post-3182221

I used to use Steam a lot and actually check the Storefront for new releases. Since this figurative avalanche of shit started I don't do that anymore and I haven't bought a single thing on Steam since back in January as a consequence, the only things that I added since then were a few Indie Bundles. If that is the result they expected from this, then good job.

I don't think that "Benny's RPG shop" is a particularly good idea either though.

The prime reason why I don't buy much on steam, is because what can be bought is entirely worthless. This isn't some new phenomenon that started with Steam opening up 'to the masses', but has in fact been a continued trend throughout the past decade. I cannot take these claims that shit is drowned out by even more shit serious.

 

[Dexter]

The prime reason why I don't buy much on steam, is because what can be bought is entirely worthless. This isn't some new phenomenon that started with Steam opening up 'to the masses', but has in fact been a continued trend throughout the past decade. I cannot take these claims that shit is drowned out by even more shit serious.

Well I disagree, and back in ~2009/2010 or so even a lot of the Indie games that got on Steam were actually pretty good, fresh and fun. Thinking about stuff like World of Goo, Braid, Trine, Super Meat Boy, Audiosurf, Machinarium. Limbo and so on. That's when they still had the veneer of some quality control.

Nowadays, but especially since last year it's descending more and more into a iOS/Android-like Shovelware store where "WTF is this shit?" is the only emotion I still have for it:

It's been flooded with Crapware, Greenlight stuff, "Early Access" and other monstrosities to the point that it's Unbrowseable and I don't think the notion of "Benny's RPG Shop" is going to fix anything, since it won't fix the main Store, just at best create a bunch of niches and circlejerks. If anything they should have left the main Steam Store like it was with Quality Control intact and opened a secondary "Indie Crap goes here" Store for people that are actually interested. Since they didn't they seem to be slowly eroding the believability of their entire platform. They should fix their own Store or make a "True Steam Store" and not hope that Hobbyist/Privatized Stores are going to fix a problem that they introduced willingly.

 

[Infinitron]

Dexter Do note that Early Access no longer appears in New Releases.

 

[Kane]

Nowadays, but especially since last year it's descending more and more into a iOS/Android-like Shovelware store where "WTF is this shit?" is the only emotion I still have for it:

That's because Steam is expanding to mobile devices. I usually don't just randomly browse steam, I use the search to narrow down my areas of interests. I don't perceive any 'flood' of crap titles, it has always been that way.

 

[Zewp]

Don't know if this has been posted before, but it's relevant to the thread.

 

[Infinitron]

That's because Steam is expanding to mobile devices.

Hey look, raw is making shit up again

Zewp Last page.

 

[Kane]

That's because Steam is expanding to mobile devices.

Hey look, raw is making shit up again

So this doesn't exist?
http://store.steampowered.com/mobile/?snr=1_Steam_4_

Clearly Valve is completely uninterested in selling Mobile Games, that's why they have developed an app and put all those mobile games on it.

 

[Infinitron]

That's because Steam is expanding to mobile devices.

Hey look, raw is making shit up again

So this doesn't exist?
http://store.steampowered.com/mobile/?snr=1_Steam_4_

Yeah, I have Steam on my phone too. It's for buying games, not playing them.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Yeah, I have Steam on my phone too. It's for buying games, not playing them.

give it one or two more years.

 

[Kane]

That's because Steam is expanding to mobile devices.

Hey look, raw is making shit up again

So this doesn't exist?
http://store.steampowered.com/mobile/?snr=1_Steam_4_

Yeah, I have Steam on my phone too. It's for buying games, not playing them.

And that will obviously stay forever that way, ignoring all the evidence to the contrary.

Anyway, I couldn't care less if Newell ever makes his grand vision of Steam for Everyone a reality, the fact of the matter is that if your game isn't shit, that competition can drown Steam until they are blue in the face, you'll still get your money. Blaming competition for failing your sales means your shit is at least as shit as the baseline.

 

[Dexter]

That's because Steam is expanding to mobile devices. I usually don't just randomly browse steam, I use the search to narrow down my areas of interests. I don't perceive any 'flood' of crap titles, it has always been that way.

This makes me wonder how long you've been part of Steam.

2007: https://web.archive.org/web/20070514064200/http://store.steampowered.com/
2008: https://web.archive.org/web/20080501145851/http://store.steampowered.com/
2009: https://web.archive.org/web/20090501055157/http://store.steampowered.com/ (This is actually the first time the Store resembles an actual Store and it doesn't seem to be quite "full of crap" yet)
2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20100430211243/http://store.steampowered.com/ (Store looks more like today)
2011: https://web.archive.org/web/20110515124008/http://store.steampowered.com/
2012: https://web.archive.org/web/20120501075501/http://store.steampowered.com/
2013: https://web.archive.org/web/20130430234602/http://store.steampowered.com/
2014: http://store.steampowered.com/

There were Indie games on Steam since ~2009, but till 2011/2012 that at least implied a certain sort of minimal quality, this eroded more in 2012/2013 and was thrown out the window in 2014 as that graph that was posted several times now seems to indicate.

 

[Kane]

There were Indie games on Steam since ~2009, but till 2011/2012 that at least implied a certain sort of minimal quality, this eroded more in 2012/2013 and was thrown out the window in 2014 as that graph that was posted several times now seems to indicate.

You're still arguing from the perspective that Valve was up to now honorbound to release only 'certain sort of minimal quality' games, a claim with which I disagree. There existed more good games in 2007, and subsequently the % of good games published on Steam is higher than today. Valve has always released games by everyone who was willing to make business with them, quality control never existed and is an illusion created by the fact that earlier this century games were better and the % of games released on steam was a lot smaller.

Newell has always said that he wants to open up the Steam platform to as many people as possible.

 

[DalekFlay]

You're still arguing from the perspective that Valve was up to now honorbound to release only 'certain sort of minimal quality' games, a claim with which I disagree. There existed more good games in 2007, and subsequently the % of good games published on Steam is higher than today. Valve has always released games by everyone who was willing to make business with them, quality control never existed and is an illusion created by the fact that earlier this century games were better and the % of games released on steam was a lot smaller.

Newell has always said that he wants to open up the Steam platform to as many people as possible.

No one is saying they are honorbound to do anything. We're telling you why many developers want some level of curation, and why some customers agree. Easier to find shit you want to find, period, end of sentence.

 

[Kane]

No one is saying they are honorbound to do anything. We're telling you why many developers want some level of curation, and why some customers agree. Easier to find shit you want to find, period, end of sentence.

I am not against curation, but you're pretty dishonest if you claim that this is what you DalekFly & Dexter actually argued.

 

[Turjan]

I think I added about 30 games to my Steam library during the last few days, and not because I bought anything. All the old bundle stuff gets loaded into the Steam store.

 

[DalekFlay]

No one is saying they are honorbound to do anything. We're telling you why many developers want some level of curation, and why some customers agree. Easier to find shit you want to find, period, end of sentence.

I am not against curation, but you're pretty dishonest if you claim that this is what you DalekFly & Dexter actually argued.

Well I don't know what the raw-brain interpreted, but that's pretty much what I was saying. There are a ton of crap games on the store. Customers and developers want it to be easier to find their shit.

 

[Spectacle]

I really do hope that steam expands into mobile devices. Not that I would use it, but I'd much rather see those mobile dollars go towards gaben's ice cream fund than apple/google's corporate coffers.

 

[Metro]

That's because Steam is expanding to mobile devices.

Hey look, raw is making shit up again

So this doesn't exist?
http://store.steampowered.com/mobile/?snr=1_Steam_4_

Yeah, I have Steam on my phone too. It's for begging games, not playing them.

 

[Kane]

I really do hope that steam expands into mobile devices. Not that I would use it, but I'd much rather see those mobile dollars go towards gaben's ice cream fund than apple/google's corporate coffers.

It will likely be a combination of both. Google, Apple and Microsoft won't losen their grip on what can be put onto their phones, so there will be a 'marketplace tax' for every game sold.

 

[Destroid]

Then developers can pay 20% royalty to apple/google, 30% to valve and keep whatever scraps leftover for themselves.

 

[Konjad]