Crispy™ The systemic anti-psionic discrimination needs to end!

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Dark Sun Shattered Lands
Underrail
Starcrawlers

 

[JarlFrank]

Please be more creative, the "fantasy" label implies that you're allowed to use your imagination.

That reminds me about a short discussion about what is fantasy I had in Solasta discord.
It's akin to the eternal question of what is an rpg.

I know a lot people would call "fantasy" almost any shit they can't find a better word for, maybe with additional desriptors like "medieval fantasy", "urban fantasy", "whatever fantasy". And I'm ok with that.

But for me pure, without any additional buzzwords "fantasy" is always associated with basically a fairy tale for grown ups, set in a medieval setting with magic.

For me, pure fantasy is associated with this:

Spoiler

To me, fantasy is wildly imaginative otherworlds that have a sense of wonder and alienness about them. The only thing medieval-ish about it is that there's usually sword-wielding warriors and castles, but that's about it. Fantasy is supposed to be strange and interesting, not just a generic carbon copy of bland "there's castles and dragons and that's it lol" boring shit. Impossibly tall architecture, ancient ruins that look like they were built by aliens, magic that is mystical and powerful and not just lol fireball, give me a grand scale and high adventure, strange imaginative locations that couldn't possibly exist in this world, etc etc.

The imaginative pulp fantasy of the 30s and 40s >>>> pseudo-medieval Tolkien clones

 

[Nortar]

The imaginative pulp fantasy of the 30s and 40s

Would you care to mention some examples with psionics?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

first we need to ask ourselves, what is a psionic?

It's not a trivial question though. Take Morrowind for example - it has spells for things like telekinesis, levitation, mind control - all the stuff that would otherwise fall under psionics category. So can we say that Morrowind has psionics?

Those aren't examples of psionics though, they are examples of magical spells. Being that psionics are just a futuristic equivalent (AKA: space magic), I understand your confusion.

 

[Delterius]

psions are for space and sci fi and we lack those in general

psionics in sword and sorcery is the w o r s t

 

[Tweed]

Knights of the Chalice 2!

Seriously, I've never had so much fun crushing entire rooms full of enemies with the power of my mind. A psion is a one man army in that game and best of all, kobolds make very good psions.

 

[V_K]

first we need to ask ourselves, what is a psionic?

It's not a trivial question though. Take Morrowind for example - it has spells for things like telekinesis, levitation, mind control - all the stuff that would otherwise fall under psionics category. So can we say that Morrowind has psionics?

Those aren't examples of psionics though, they are examples of magical spells. Being that psionics are just a futuristic equivalent (AKA: space magic), I understand your confusion.

The question is what differs psionics from magic. You can't really say that psionics is a sci-fi version of magic, because psionics are typically much more well-defined in terms of what one can do (telekinesis, telepathy, pyrokinesis, astral projection etc. - but not demon summoning or shapeshifting) and how he does it (with his mind - but not with magic words, runes, or reagents). So in principle you can have psionics in a fantasy setting alongside magic - but when the two aren't differentiated enough, all sorts of autistic interesting questions arise.

 

[rado907]

Tome4 & Mass Effect 2.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Spoiler

first we need to ask ourselves, what is a psionic?

It's not a trivial question though. Take Morrowind for example - it has spells for things like telekinesis, levitation, mind control - all the stuff that would otherwise fall under psionics category. So can we say that Morrowind has psionics?

Those aren't examples of psionics though, they are examples of magical spells. Being that psionics are just a futuristic equivalent (AKA: space magic), I understand your confusion.

The question is what differs psionics from magic. You can't really say that psionics is a sci-fi version of magic, because psionics are typically much more well-defined in terms of what one can do (telekinesis, telepathy, pyrokinesis, astral projection etc. - but not demon summoning or shapeshifting) and how he does it (with his mind - but not with magic words, runes, or reagents). So in principle you can have psionics in a fantasy setting alongside magic - but when the two aren't differentiated enough, all sorts of autistic interesting questions arise.

Not being able to demon summon isn't really much of a distinction. We've got examples of psionics that can create illusions, telepathically communicate, dominate minds, move objects, manipulate energy (even weather), force fields, invisibility, flight, precognition (seeing through time, augury/divination), astral project, etc. So, if manipulating energy, time, and space with your mind is on the table, summoning and inter/extra-dimensional being isn't far fetched. That's literally the premise of the TV show Stranger Things, which is firmly science fiction. I take special issue with astral projection, as it is represented as anything from your disembodied consciousness moving through space and time, or connecting to a plane of unified consciousness. That one really starts getting into the realm of metaphysical.

Pisonics in medieval fantasy is only duplication, or provides some BS circumvention to things like dead magic zones. Usually it's just magic--but edgy and cool. Leather jackets instead of robes and capes. Neither of these are valuable. In science fiction it can have a place, but is typically an inferior mechanism that undermines the technological underpinnings of the setting. Suspension of disbelief is very important in scifi. Ultimately it just ends up being space wizards and space magic.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Now that I have your attention,
list your favorite RPGs that have psionics.

Play Darksun or KotC2. In Darksun, everyone has Psionics. In KotC2, you have four psionic classes. One is pure psionics, two are hybrid casters, and one is a martial hybrid.

 

[Lord_Potato]

UFO: Enemy Unknown and X-Com: Terror from the Deep

 

[Lilura]

UFO: Enemy Unknown and X-Com: Terror from the Deep

It's funny how you think you're an expert on every game that I do massive write-ups on and record the best vids of.

 

[Takamori]

Its an Early Access game but Encased has Psionics too.

 

[Lord_Potato]

UFO: Enemy Unknown and X-Com: Terror from the Deep

It's funny how you think you're an expert on every game that I do massive write-ups on and record the best vids of.

Lilura, my man, I've been playing X-Coms since they were released (mostly Terror from the Deep which I prefer). Playing UFO: Enemy Unknown at my cousins' place was an experience that convinced me to move from Amiga to PC.

I could not care less about your opinions or recommendations. Or your blog, which you keep pushing to everyone like an indebted, desperate drug dealer.

 

[Sloul]

In theory the swamp camp ppl of Gothic are in some sort of Hive Mind, and I tend to think that their magical abilities have more to do with psionics than anything else. Although, the player still use runes to learn their spells.

Caves of Qud is pretty insane when it comes to magic and psionic abilities.

There are some psionics in Vargus - The Riven Realms, it is very well depicted (I am thinking about the Prologue).

 

[Lilura]

I've been playing X-Coms since they were released (mostly Terror from the Deep which I prefer). Playing UFO: Enemy Unknown at my cousins' place was an experience that convinced me to move from Amiga to PC.

Likely story. I've never seen you post about the Amiga or X-COM on the Codex. Anyway, you were rude to me first. An eye for an eye, forever.

 

[deuxhero]

Deus Ex

Oh hey, I remember that guy in Versalife.

 

[Lord_Potato]

I've been playing X-Coms since they were released (mostly Terror from the Deep which I prefer). Playing UFO: Enemy Unknown at my cousins' place was an experience that convinced me to move from Amiga to PC.

Likely story. I've never seen you post about the Amiga or X-COM on the Codex. Anyway, you were rude to me first. An eye for an eye, forever.

On the Amiga no, I did not post. It's RPG Codex and I did not experience many RPGs on this platform.

On X-Com sure, I wrote some posts. Two of my favourite games (Apocalypse had several good ideas but also several abysmal, so I consider it inferior to first two games, later the franchise deteriorated).

 

[ValeVelKal]

Enhancing my RPG cred by stating that the Iskai/Catmen in Albion had telepathic/pseudopsionic power.

 

[buffalo bill]

Caves of Qud
Some NPC psionic characters in Fallout (the psykers and the Master)
SS2
Dark Sun
KotC2 (but I get crushed no matter what anyway in every encounter)
Underrail

 

[Alex]

first we need to ask ourselves, what is a psionic?

Spoiler

2e psionics was such a crazy, strange take. I never had any idea where they were coming from with stuff like psychic surgery or those telepathic attacks and defences. It certainly gets my vote.

Edit: On the opposite end of the scale, psionics in GURPS 3e was really well made and interesting. The powers are straightforward uses of basic extra capacities. For instance, psychokinesis potential determines how much force you can exert, and the different psychokinesis powers use that in special ways. That was really nice too.

 

[Sharpedge]

Tales of Maj'Eyal.

 

[ValeVelKal]

first we need to ask ourselves, what is a psionic?

Spoiler

2e psionics was such a crazy, strange take. I never had any idea where they were coming from with stuff like psychic surgery or those telepathic attacks and defences. It certainly gets my vote.

Edit: On the opposite end of the scale, psionics in GURPS 3e was really well made and interesting. The powers are straightforward uses of basic extra capacities. For instance, psychokinesis potential determines how much force you can exert, and the different psychokinesis powers use that in special ways. That was really nice too.

When I was around 15-16, I was DM at ADD in the Dark Sun universe. I was not a great DM, pretty bad even, and a “rules are rules” one.
In Dark Sun, all characters have one random psionic power. One of my player got super lucky and ended up with “disintegration”. My (mostly combat based) scenarii were sliced through, and the character even one shot a Drake that had been met due to me using (« rules are rules ») the random encounter table in the Dark Sun rule book.
Until that day where he fumbled a desintegration roll and disintegrated himself in the middle of that large mountain.

« Rules are rules » goodbye OP character.

Apart from that odd case, I really appreciate the whole « mind » battle with the 5 attacks (vs 5 défense) defense that you would use to establish a connect with your opponent mind. I appreciated much less, as I was relying back then on random encounter table, having to DM a monster whose psychic powers I did not know well and no time to check the Psionic handbook in session.

 

[V_K]

Enhancing my RPG cred by stating that the Iskai/Catmen in Albion had telepathic/pseudopsionic power.

Did they though? IIRC, they were the only mage class in Albion that needed reagents for their spells, which is not very psionic-like.

 

[ValeVelKal]

I remember it was the Viking-guys that needed components, and the catmen had special power through a sort of third eye on their front.