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The Secret World

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i snatched somewhere on the interwebz a 3 days trial key.

best mmorpg quests ever. the investigative quests are truly something.
worst mmorpg combat ever. even worse than star trek online's. banal weapons, boring skills.
i love and loathe it, i want to play it for some quests but i just can't stand its combat.
 

Norfleet

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Worse combat than STO? Cuz man was STO's combat ever a disappointment, Spacebar Online. Suffice it to say I didn't spend my time doing much in the way of combat, no mean feat for a game which generally presented nothing else BUT pewpewpew. But there were minerals, and we required more of them...
 

bozia2012

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i snatched somewhere on the interwebz a 3 days trial key.

best mmorpg quests ever. the investigative quests are truly something.
worst mmorpg combat ever. even worse than star trek online's. banal weapons, boring skills.
i love and loathe it, i want to play it for some quests but i just can't stand its combat.
Can't say I like the combat system, but I've got used to it. I guess you have to find ways to minimize time you spend fighting and get a build that makes it less taxing.

I just dig the story and writing - it's clever, self-aware and touches on important stuff. And teh horror - it is there.

PS There's a 30-day trial a few posts above - dunno if anyone used it already.
 
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Worse combat than STO? Cuz man was STO's combat ever a disappointment, Spacebar Online. Suffice it to say I didn't spend my time doing much in the way of combat, no mean feat for a game which generally presented nothing else BUT pewpewpew. But there were minerals, and we required more of them...
yup, much much worse.
more static, despite some aoe mobs' attacks, and only 7 skills to use at once, taken from a pool of more than 500, three fourths of whose are basically the same.
the objection "gw made you use 8" is pointless, because in gw skills were rarely similar, had deep interactions but, most of all, you had at least three more characters to manage, so there were minimum 32 skills at a time.
the only equipment which actually matters is the weapons and there are just 9 (without any kind of variation like rate of fire and stuff), you choose one and stick with it until the end of time/patience. i just jumped from a 75 strenght pistol to a 220 and barely noticed the difference.

but the quests... oh my the quests... even fed-ex and "go kill stuff" quests are better than average. and i'm slowly growing fond of the writing too, sometimes it's serious, sometimes self-ironic, rarely out of place.
after two days i'm sick of the combat system but i want to go on because of everything else. but i can't stand the combat. but i want to go on. but i can't stand the combat. at all.
 

Norfleet

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Yeah, but STO wasn't exactly big on skill use. You had one skill, the Spacebar skill. Combat consisted of tapping spacebar repeatedly while following the guy in front of you. That's really ALL I often did in STO, I followed the guy in front of me while mashing spacebar. Later on I discovered that I could further efficientize the process by putting a heavy object on the spacebar and turning on keyrepeat. Furthermore, if the other guy was in the same faction as me, I could follow him automatically, so I didn't actually have to DO anything. But combat wasn't terribly important because minerals were not primarily combat-based. So what about the minerals?
 

bozia2012

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MadMaxHellfire There are 8 skills - after some time you will get a first quest to get an auxiliary weapon which uses 8th slot and has it's own passive. I think the first one is rocket launcher and of course one of the skills is rocket jump :)

Dude, keep it up. Shit becomes even better - Transylvania and Tokyo is pure awesome storyfag/horror-wise.
 

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Worse combat than STO? Cuz man was STO's combat ever a disappointment, Spacebar Online. Suffice it to say I didn't spend my time doing much in the way of combat, no mean feat for a game which generally presented nothing else BUT pewpewpew. But there were minerals, and we required more of them...
yup, much much worse.
more static, despite some aoe mobs' attacks, and only 7 skills to use at once, taken from a pool of more than 500, three fourths of whose are basically the same.
the objection "gw made you use 8" is pointless, because in gw skills were rarely similar, had deep interactions but, most of all, you had at least three more characters to manage, so there were minimum 32 skills at a time.
the only equipment which actually matters is the weapons and there are just 9 (without any kind of variation like rate of fire and stuff), you choose one and stick with it until the end of time/patience. i just jumped from a 75 strenght pistol to a 220 and barely noticed the difference.

but the quests... oh my the quests... even fed-ex and "go kill stuff" quests are better than average. and i'm slowly growing fond of the writing too, sometimes it's serious, sometimes self-ironic, rarely out of place.
after two days i'm sick of the combat system but i want to go on because of everything else. but i can't stand the combat. but i want to go on. but i can't stand the combat. at all.

How far have you progressed? You have a 200+ weapon so you must have played for some time. I can't comment on how bad combat system is since I have only played around TWO MMOs for LORE like LotR and Marvel Heroes, but your summary has many contentious statements. For example, other gears (talismans) matter way more than you two weapons, since significant amount of stats come from your talisman and the glyphs you crafted onto them. Your build will depend on your talismans, as many passive abilities have triggers that depend on these stats.

And the 9 main weapons do have differences among themselves. You have melee weapon and ranged weapon. You have weapons that put resources on the enemies, and weapons that put resources on yourself, and weapon that regenerates resources outside of combat so you can engage with a consumer ability. And their focus is entirely different. For example Assault Rifle is for leeching, Blood Magic is for barriers, Hammers for blocking and Chaos Magic for evading and weakening. I started with Elemental Magic and Shotgun for fun, and switched to middle-ranged Pistols and Shotgun for Hindrance and Critical damage trigger synergy, then developed long-ranged Assault Rifle and Hammer to block, leech and survive for certain Nightmare missions and finally melee Blade and Chaos for AOE to deal with a certain quest boss. They are all very different play styles.

Maybe you are saying the combat system is more on the side of crushing numbers instead of having different shapes and requiring more active and less simulated actions from players?
 
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Norfleet

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Maybe you are saying the combat system is more on the side of crushing numbers instead of having different shapes and requiring more active and less simulated actions from players?
Sounds like what you'd expect of RPG combat, to me. I just found the notion that this game could have combat LESS engrossing than STO to be rather strange, given that STO combat consists of pressing a single button and can literally be played face down on the keyboard, one mission not even requiring that you leave the start zone. It's not nicknamed Spacebar Online for nothing...

Can't say I like the combat system, but I've got used to it. I guess you have to find ways to minimize time you spend fighting and get a build that makes it less taxing.
Isn't minimizing the time you spend fighting sort of the entire point of a combat system? Like everything else with efficiency, though, it can run into Jevons Paradox: The less time you need to spend on doing it, the more you spend on doing it.
 

Stokowski

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Pressing the spacebar and watching cool shit happening can be enjoyable in a soothing sort of way.

Working through your beautifully finessed rotation for the 40 billionth time to nickel&dime unavoidable cockblock mob 76,231 to death … rather less so, as time goes by.
 

Norfleet

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That's usually around the point you become an Auction House Guy. In a game without a prominent PvP element, winning the auction house is how you win the game.
 

bozia2012

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And the 9 main weapons do have differences among themselves. You have melee weapon and ranged weapon. You have weapons that put resources on the enemies, and weapons that put resources on yourself, and weapon that regenerates resources outside of combat so you can engage with a consumer ability. And their focus is entirely different. For example Assault Rifle is for leeching, Blood Magic is for barriers, Hammers for blocking and Chaos Magic for evading and weakening. I started with Elemental Magic and Shotgun for fun, and switched to middle-ranged Pistols and Shotgun for Hindrance and Critical damage trigger synergy, then developed long-ranged Assault Rifle and Hammer to block, leech and survive for certain Nightmare missions and finally melee Blade and Chaos for AOE to deal with a certain quest boss. They are all very different play styles.
Plus melee weapons allow for almost unhindered movement while attacking which is crucial in many cases.
 

Norfleet

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Sounds to me like it's richer than STO combat, where everyone goes AP, because DPS ONLINE, and then facerolls spacebar. Watch as I eventually decide to give this thing a poke and it's also all DPS Online as well.
 

Xenich

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The problem I always had with the combat in TSW is not that it is completely simplistic button smashing, there is a method to the madness. Part of the skill is in the selection of weapon/skill combination and part of it is in the application of those skill within combat. It isn't blind button smashing as in some games, but... it is still button smashing none the less. It is a very repetitious system of cycling through builders and finishers. Now certainly the system is a bit less "spammy" for those who know what they are doing (oblivious players tend to design and use skill synergies that are simplistic button spamming), but at the end of the day even a very thoughtfully designed synergy still is very much button smashing.

I found the system to be "tiring" after a while. I loved designing the synergies, but I always thought the execution of the system needed much more time on the design table. It really seemed counter to the entire point of spending time to develop an intricate synergy only to do simple key spamming to use it. It would have been nice to see more thoughtful design in that area. Another problem I had with the game is that they had this intricate system of combat skill design through synergies that opened the doors for a classless style of play (yes, I know that weapons tended to follow basic roles, but you could design outside of those roles with clever synergies) only to end up designing all of its encounters to require the basic "holy trinity" role design.

I remember a point in beta where a division of players occurred. One side wanted them to create complex encounter design that stepped outside of the bounds of simplistic trinity design. The other wanted the same old and tired tank/healer/dps model. Well, it is obvious who won out as TSW encounter design (at least since I played a while ago) resulted into the same basic trinity requirements. It was such a waste to see an attempt to step outside of traditional systems only to end up with it in the end. What is sad is that the bulk of those who demanded yet another WoW clone in encounter design (and that is what the encounters turned out to be) all ditched the game shortly after release. That wasn't the first time the WoW locusts had swooped in, made demands for development and then left the game a gutted carcass after through a self fulfilled prophecy of complaints about the blandness of systems they demanded in the first place.

Anyway, the combat is really the one thing that holds this game back. They do alright though now. It seems as TSW has decided to focus on the unique features they have over all other games (story immersion and puzzle/investigation). That at least seems to keep it going, though I know for me... it is like pulling teeth to go back and play. I still have several issues to finish and I just can't bring myself to go back, even with it being free. I really despise the combat system that much. It is horrible IMHO.
 

Cromwell

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Anyway, the combat is really the one thing that holds this game back. They do alright though now. It seems as TSW has decided to focus on the unique features they have over all other games (story immersion and puzzle/investigation). That at least seems to keep it going, though I know for me... it is like pulling teeth to go back and play. I still have several issues to finish and I just can't bring myself to go back, even with it being free. I really despise the combat system that much. It is horrible IMHO.

Started again were I left off in transylvania. The combat System is even worse than I had remembered. Having played wow a while with the new expansion (which I found rather good compared to the ones before) I found that the combat in tsw is worse than wow combat althoug its pretty much the same on paper. WoW is more fluid or at least thats how it feels and how I would describe it, tsw feels a little clunkier and slow in comparision. But the Rest is still as good as ever and I will happily live with the combat system as long as the rest is this good until they finally make a solo player game in the same vein.
 
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in the end i bought it anyway, even if i could not play it ever. well worth 10 euros.

damn, those investigative missions are teh hard!
 

Cromwell

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Has anyone played a while with the aegis system yet?b As I understood it it gives an extra prperty to your damage to destroy shileds, the property you get depends on what of the 3 types you activate and with which weapon you do your damage.

How does that work with afflicted? For example I use Bloodsport which sets afflicted on every hit, does that mean if I hit with sword and damage type a the affliction does a and if I hit with my chaos finisher and type b the resulting afflicion does type b?

On paper the aegis system looks like a pain in the ass for their combat system.
 

bozia2012

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Has anyone played a while with the aegis system yet?b As I understood it it gives an extra prperty to your damage to destroy shileds, the property you get depends on what of the 3 types you activate and with which weapon you do your damage.

How does that work with afflicted? For example I use Bloodsport which sets afflicted on every hit, does that mean if I hit with sword and damage type a the affliction does a and if I hit with my chaos finisher and type b the resulting afflicion does type b?

On paper the aegis system looks like a pain in the ass for their combat system.
Afflictions, grenades, ground dots etc. deal the damage type of currently used weapon controller - f.e. you can fire a dot from psychic hammer, use demonic pistols and the dot will hit for demonic damage.

I'm lazy, so I run with my old build and both controllers set to the same type. Psychic can be interrupted and demonic doesn't regen, so not always 2 shields are actually 2 shields.. Some cyber bosses can be tricky though.

After they added AEGIS I also felt the combat is slower, but mob hp is reduced - they go down fast after you destroy the shields. Getting bit better controllers and capacitors changes a lot.

I alwas avoid single mobs when possible and intercept the weak groupies - they're basically dead after I open up with stunning swirl and preloaded sword consumer. I'm close to 10.4.4, but there are beginner builds available and peeps proved it's possible to solo Tokyo in greens.
 
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Cromwell

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Afflictions, grenades, ground dots etc. deal the damage type of currently used weapon controller - f.e. you can fire a dot from psychic hammer, use demonic pistols and the dot will hit for demonic damage.

I'm lazy, so I run with my old build and both controllers set to the same type. Psychic can be interrupted and demonic doesn't regen, so not always 2 shields are actually 2 shields.. Some cyber bosses can be tricky though.

After they added AEGIS I also felt the combat is slower, but mob hp is reduced - they go down fast after you destroy the shields. Getting bit better controllers and capacitors changes a lot.

I alwas avoid single mobs when possible and intercept the weak groupies - they're basically dead after I open up with stunning swirl and preloaded sword consumer. I'm close to 10.4.4, but there are beginner builds available and peeps proved it's possible to solo Tokyo in greens.


Almost all my damage comes from sword skills I only have one chaos finisher so that I dont waste the points. So i should get the controllers for my sword first. I have blue l10 gear from my veteran points, I am not even sure if i can get better gear from solo questing. After buying a few signets and glyphs I am down to 800k again staring horrified at the prices. I saw someone wanting to sell an augmentation for one single skill for 55mil.

Upgrades seem rather small in comparision to other themeparks, the mentioned augmention only gives you 1% more damage to one single skill. Which also means I cant solo that many dungeons.
 

bozia2012

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Almost all my damage comes from sword skills I only have one chaos finisher so that I dont waste the points. So i should get the controllers for my sword first. I have blue l10 gear from my veteran points, I am not even sure if i can get better gear from solo questing. After buying a few signets and glyphs I am down to 800k again staring horrified at the prices. I saw someone wanting to sell an augmentation for one single skill for 55mil.

Upgrades seem rather small in comparision to other themeparks, the mentioned augmention only gives you 1% more damage to one single skill. Which also means I cant solo that many dungeons.
Upgrade one controller first, so you'll be able to wear better capacitors (f.e. with 1.5 contoller you can put ql5 capacitors in all slots). I'm also using mostly sword, so first I'm making a psychic controller for it to 1.9.

Augs are totally optional. The most useful for anyone are easy to get (+ar/hr/hp), the rest is for rather specific minmaxing. There is a cool +40℅ healing for one skill or bonus aggro, but it's not required for anything (certainly not for solo, which was promised to be always accessible without stuff from group content).
 

4249

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I bought the game from the Steam sale and am having some fun with it. Never thought I'd play an MMO again, but this is pretty fun if you just ignore the MMO part. The Investigation missions have been making me feel really stupid after having to resort to guides on almost every one of them.

But I have a question. I've been having fun just unlocking the different starter decks and trying new styles but that's probably detrimental to my build in the long run. But how detrimental? Can I keep doing it and do fine or should I select a few different paths and start specializing?
 

bozia2012

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I bought the game from the Steam sale and am having some fun with it. Never thought I'd play an MMO again, but this is pretty fun if you just ignore the MMO part. The Investigation missions have been making me feel really stupid after having to resort to guides on almost every one of them.

But I have a question. I've been having fun just unlocking the different starter decks and trying new styles but that's probably detrimental to my build in the long run. But how detrimental? Can I keep doing it and do fine or should I select a few different paths and start specializing?
In the long run nothing is detrimental since you can get every skill in the game :) Decks are kinda crappy though, so you'd better stick to a custom build.

It's good to have a decent, universal build to fall back to when your experimenting doesn't work. You can try some tested stuff from here: http://www.tswdb.com/builds/

I suggest using one melee weapon (mobility, AoE, CCs), getting some healing (f.e. Turn the Tables or some passives with high uptime) and some kind of damage avoidance (can be evasion buff or AoE stun). There are very tough fights in the game and most mobs are very powerful and have nasty mechanics.

Try not to rely on Hinder status and skills with extra aggro if you plan to do groups.

Don't feel stupid about the investigation missions :)
 

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4249

Yep, bozia is right - you can't screw up anything permanently. But I think it helps to have an idea of what you want to build towards. I'd say try out some different weapons until you find a style you like, and then focus on that style. By the time you get to the third adventure zone (Blue Mountain) or so, you will want a build that knows what it's doing. Of course if you want, you can repeat missions forever in the first couple zones and keep buying more and more abilities, but I think it's more fun to focus a build early so you can take on more content.

And don't spend all your SPs on weapon levels - make sure your Talisman ranks are just as high. Common mistake.
 

Xenich

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By the time you get to the third adventure zone (Blue Mountain) or so, you will want a build that knows what it's doing.

Have they dumbed the game down? When I played last, you had to have a solid focus and into a good build by the time you got to Blue Mountain or you were fighting an uphill battle (actually, even the second zone told ya if your build wasn't up to par). It used to be the weeder zone for bad builds. Did they change it? Is the game now easy where any build works for the most part?
 

4249

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Yeah I know that the system can't be permanently fucked up, but I don't really care for grinding the same areas over and over again. I guess I'll fuck around with the starter decks a bit more.

I was thinking of doing a healer build for dungeoning, to get into groups more easily. From my limited experience fists and blood magic could be good candidates for that?

Oh, and is there a way to save equipped actives and passives? Feels like a chore to find everything again if I have to change roles.
 

Cromwell

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The amount of quests I cant do solo gets higher which annoys me a little, but I have seen a vendor in the shadowy forrest which sells some 10.1 gear. Is it possible to earn the sameor better gear in tokyo?

Have they dumbed the game down? When I played last, you had to have a solid focus and into a good build by the time you got to Blue Mountain or you were fighting an uphill battle (actually, even the second zone told ya if your build wasn't up to par). It used to be the weeder zone for bad builds. Did they change it? Is the game now easy where any build works for the most part?

No blue mountains will still fuck you if you dont have a good solo build.
 

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