The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[DosBuster]

Man, nice to see that id still has some great tech people even without carmack.

 

[Excidium II]

All that tech and it can't handle more than a handful of enemies simultaneously.

 

[DosBuster]

Aside from snapmap's weird limitation I never noticed there being a set limit, enemies teleport in waves but it doesn't take away from the experience.

 

[Excidium II]

It's p. noticeable if you stop spinning around like a sperg for a second.

 

[shihonage]

All that tech and it can't handle more than a handful of enemies simultaneously.

When Left4Dead came out, I was like, holy shit. An FPS which has hordes of enemies and is willing to sacrifice some visual quality for intended gameplay?!

D44M clearly does not. I perceive D44M similarly to Fallout 3 - the vision of the original implemented through the eyes of gimmicky retards.

When you lock player in an arena, and it's not a rare boss encounter, you're DONE pretending to be Doom. Serious Sam was doing this shit, locking player in arenas and then frogs start falling from the sky and you have to shoot them to get out...

Parkour in a cage. Dance, monkey, dance. Talk about breaking the 4th wall.

It's straitjacketing the player to compensate for bad design and bad programming.

I wonder when was the last time any of current id employees actually played the Doom prequels. Just like I wondered whether Todd Howard ever personally tried playing Fallout.

When the release hype is over, this garbage will be forgotten faster than the ROTT remake.

 

[vortex]

Parkour in a cage. Dance, monkey, dance. Talk about breaking the 4th wall.

It's straitjacketing the player to compensate for bad design and bad programming.

I disagree. Id6 is a masterpiece. Read this for id4: http://kotaku.com/5975610/the-exceptional-beauty-of-doom-3s-source-code .
Id6 was rewritten is major parts but the beauty of logic behind the code is still there.
I personally love Doom fast paced design. I hate third grade writing in it.
Wish Fallout 4 would have this gameplay design with more stronger RPG base.

I'm pretty sure Valve is doing similar engine tweaking toward Vulcan support for Source.
Half Life 3 with this Doom's game design, fine narrative and non-spawning arena horde would be a real deal, but that is for another topic.

 

[The Decline]

The arena-style levels sound terrible. Those should be saved for special encounters or to surprise the player once in a while. Placing them everywhere just reeks of artificially inflating the game length.

 

[Durandal]

Another problem with D44M's design is how it takes the Bethesda approach of trying to give the player as much freedom as possible, with no limits or consequences to challenge your new-found freedom

Now you can jump over everything, but then there are no enemies which are a real threat to you mid-air, and you no longer have to take enemies blocking passage in consideration
Now you can jump, but rarely is your ability to jump ever challenged by a ceiling or floor
Now you can move faster, but there are rarely any enemies which challenge or restrict your movement to anything but circlestrafing
Now you have a larger freedom of movement, but no geometry or level layouts to challenge and limit that freedom
Now you can jump on top of platforms, which lets you escape enemy swarms and ambushes, but the amount of enemies become less challenging to deal with when you can jump on platforms and deal with them one by one as not all of them can jump to your position
Now you can explore the levels for secrets, with little resistance because all exploration/platforming parts of the levels have very little enemies compared to the arena parts
Now you can roam around open levels without having to deal with hitscan enemies (normally I hate hitscan enemies, but in the OG, save for excessive chaingunner placement, hitscan enemies would prevent you from just circlestrafing everything to death, and I appreciate their purpose)
Now you can repeatedly make more mistakes and fix lost health through Glory Kills

 

[Space Insect]

Adding on to that, the added mobility really makes no difference if you are trying to speedrun or get past a horde of demons that you don't want to fight. The door will always stay closed until everything is dead.

 

[shihonage]

Parkour in a cage. Dance, monkey, dance. Talk about breaking the 4th wall.

It's straitjacketing the player to compensate for bad design and bad programming.

I disagree. Id6 is a masterpiece. Read this for id4: http://kotaku.com/5975610/the-exceptional-beauty-of-doom-3s-source-code .
Id6 was rewritten is major parts but the beauty of logic behind the code is still there.

 

[skacky]

Adding on to that, the added mobility really makes no difference if you are trying to speedrun or get past a horde of demons that you don't want to fight. The door will always stay closed until everything is dead.

Not always true, there are plenty of OOB and various skips made available with double jump + gauss boost that allows runners to skip large portions of maps.
Also in the level in which you have to re-align the satellite dish, you can skip the whole outdoor arena by going on the outside vents and then inside the control room. No OOB here, this is a legit way of doing it. I found that quite surprising.

 

[GarfunkeL]

While you bitch about the new Doom, you can enjoy some remastered & reworked soundtrack of the first episode done by Andrew Hulshult, who did the OST for Rise of the Triad for example.

 

[Fowyr]

this is true, but doom comes from an era where there was probably no weapon reloading in ANY game. Back then, doom was an action game, since FPS genre didn't exist. Most shooters from that time had no reload not because of gameplay, but because it was an afterthough when realistic shooter started to appear.

I wonder about what first FPS had reloading. Personally, I saw it first in Half-Life.

Well, I'm not tech savvy, but isn't doom source code released entirely for free? and people made their own tools?

There were already shitton of fanmade tools before source code was released.

 

[shihonage]

I made a Doom utility which allowed most popular DEHACKED patches to be applied simultaneously via checking boxes, and it read the screen when the game ended, and deciphered some popular Doom error messages for you.

I also allegedly hacked the DWANGO online service sometime in 1995. Their law firm sent me a cease&desist letter, but I lost it

 

[vortex]

Spoiler

I didn't get that humor. You've being sarcastic ?

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

I wonder about what first FPS had reloading. Personally, I saw it first in Half-Life.

Goldeneye 64 came out a year earlier than half-life, though it's reloading speed was rather fast, all it did was just move the gun off screen then back, and boom, it was fully reloaded. Makes sense in hindsight since it was originally going to be a lightgun-equse game.

Now thinking it over did system shock 1 have reloading?

 

[Fowyr]

Goldeneye 64 came out a year earlier than half-life, though it's reloading speed was rather fast, all it did was just move the gun off screen then back, and boom, it was fully reloaded. Makes sense in hindsight since it was originally going to be a lightgun-equse game. Did, systemshock 1 have reloading?

Yea, it, with its several types of ammo and "clips", had reloading, but it was very fast as well. Frankly, I can't even remember how exact looked reloading, and I replayed it just a several months ago.

 

[lightbane]

I wonder about what first FPS had reloading. Personally, I saw it first in Half-Life.

Marathon I would say. Extra points because reloading was an action you couldn't control and it was annoying more than anything else. It also featured checkpoints of sorts instead of allowing you to save whenever you wanted.

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

Marathon came about a month or so after system shock 1, so if we're saying system shock had reloading then it was the first fps to have reloading, unless we're counting those lightgun arcade games as well.

 

[Tacgnol]

Duke Nukem 3D had "reloading" with some weapons. The pistol reloaded after 12 shots.

 

[Astral Rag]

Seal Team had auto-reloading.

 

[shihonage]

Spoiler

I didn't get that humor. You've being sarcastic ?

It's not humor, it's directly addressing what you said. In other words, I don't give a shit about how elegant the code is, if the game I am playing can't handle more than a handful of enemies at the time, and has to compensate for it by shitty arena designs.

 

[Fowyr]

Duke Nukem 3D had "reloading" with some weapons. The pistol reloaded after 12 shots.

Damn, indeed.

Should check SS1 this evening.

Probably we need to make list of games with dates and type of reloading. Automatic/manual, animate/not animate and so on.

 

[DosBuster]

Spoiler

I didn't get that humor. You've being sarcastic ?

It's not humor, it's directly addressing what you said. In other words, I don't give a shit about how elegant the code is, if the game I am playing can't handle more than a handful of enemies at the time, and has to compensate for it by shitty arena designs.

It never feels like there's a lack of enemies in the room though, sure, if you look closely you might notice it but they keep the action going fast which is what truly matters. The arenas are nicely designed though, I mean I agree in that there were way too many but they had a very nice flow to them and just felt great to move around in.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

This thread is turning into a greenhouse, we have so many plants in here.