The most difficult boss encounter in a CRPG.

[octavius]

I don't think Mulmaster Beholder Corps counts, as it's either literally impossible (non-cheese) or incredibly easy (dust of dissapearance). If someone did it without the dust, well wow.

Well, I did. I thought the Dust was just ordinary invisbility potion with group effect, so I never brothered with it.
The trick was to not go for an open fight, but to have your characters one either one or both sides of the doorway. Then use Fireballs to kill the High Priests and Beholders and use a Hasted and Strengthed Figher/Thief and Thief to backstab the Drow Lords.

 

[octavius]

Here's how you beat...well, any monster in the EOB games:

Find a room that's 2x2 squares wide. Lure your monster of choice into this area. When you have done this, use the side-step arrows to keep circling the monster turning to face the monster and hitting it with melee attacks whenver possible. If you do this right, no monster will ever get a chance to attack you.

Excacatly. And the reason why I gave up on the EOB games halfway in EOB2. The real-time mechanics didn't work very well and it felt to me utterly pointless to play a *role* playing game where this kind of cheesy tactic was possible.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't get how the OP can say that Kangaxx in BG2 is easy no matter how you exploit AOEs. That fucker was damned near impossible, total crapshoot if you managed to beat him. The moment that combat started that fucker would use instacasts that often ended up killing half your party PERMANENTLY. This was typically followed up by a time stop and a barrel of cheesy AOE spells of his own.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

(I had some short sword from the Watcher's Keep)

OIC, you used expansion weapons on him.

 

[Deadeye Dragoon]

Looks like the problem is that you're just moving too slow. If done right, the tactic I mentioned should never allow Dran to get an attack in.

I have to ask out of curiosity: How did you fare through EOB3? More importantly, against the endboss in that game? He moves really fast, almost the fastest monster I've seen in these kinds of games.

Sorry I meant EOB2 battles. I played about halfway through EOB1 but no part of EOB3.

I'm not actually stupid in general, maybe I was just stupid in that fight but it seemed atypically hard compared with every other fight I've ever encountered.

Well, I did. I thought the Dust was just ordinary invisbility potion with group effect, so I never brothered with it.
The trick was to not go for an open fight, but to have your characters one either one or both sides of the doorway. Then use Fireballs to kill the High Priests and Beholders and use a Hasted and Strengthed Figher/Thief and Thief to backstab the Drow Lords.

Awesome! Very impressive.

 

[fractal]

Re Kangaxx:

If you leave most of your party (the ones not immune against imprisonment) near the entrance, they'll be safe. Last time I played BG2 I killed the lich-form with my spellcaster (wizard or sorcerer), Edwin and another spellcaster, then withdrew everyone except my PC, shapeshifted into the slayer and killed the demilich-form.

The playthrough before that I insta-killed him with Minsc and the Improved Mace of Disruption. The mace is only a +2 or +3 weapon, but apparently the "destroy undead" effect works even if you do 0 regular damage.

Even if some members of your party do get imprisoned, the Freedom spell is very cheap (less than 1k gold) and available from merchants in the city.

 

[Melcar]

With exploits Kangaxx is a piece of cake. Even if you play legit, his first form is rather easy once you die like the first 2-3 times (though it's still not impossible to manage to beat that first form even on your first play). The demilich form is another story. I guess you could learn by that stage in the game about protection from undead/magic scrolls, but you still need to figure out how to actually kill him. Unless you're a D&D buff and know beforehand how to take such a creature down, I don't see how you would survive the encounter the first time.
Now I don't get how everyone is going on about Sarevok, though he is harder without the expansion pack installed. The Irenicus fight is much harder (the one in The Tree of Life or whatever it's called).

 

[Deadeye Dragoon]

Yeah, Kangaxx is open to a ton of exploits. First time without exploiting can be won by luck vs. his attacks and a weapon that does +magic damage. First time I encountered/beat him I experimented with different weapons and ended up mainly using that beautiful pink halberd that had +1 acid/+1 cold/etc. damage. Minsc beat on him while he chased someone around. Okay, did use the chasing AI exploit I guess. Okay, and maybe I summoned about 400 critters for distraction...

But he's doable with luck, and the fight itself is short enough that he's beatable by a vanilla party that can damage him even 1 point a round, just by using the Button of Reload until you avoid wiping. I think fights with more opponents like the um, place with the Beholder, Mage, Vampire, and Lich are harder, simply because they last longer with more opportunities for gibbing and less ease of exploiting AI target aggro and switching.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Kangaxx is one of those boss monsters that requires the power word: quick load spell. Beating him hinges upon having one of a very short list of specific things that you would normally never carry.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Kangaxx is one of those boss monsters that requires the power word: quick load spell. Beating him hinges upon having one of a very short list of specific things that you would normally never carry.

Uh, protection from XXX-scrolls are something I always carry with me. Facing a named lich would be a great hint to actually use one or both Protection form Magic / Protection from Undead.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

BS I already posted the tutorial to killing him. Defeat the normal form like you would any other mage (buff up, circle hasted fighters around him, get a few hits before he fires his contingencies, then debuff him what have you and hack away some more). Then when he turns into the floating skull pull fighters back, turn into slayer (immunity to imprisonment, his only attack at that form) and beat the living shit outta him. It ain't pretty but it gets the job done nice and easy and any party at chapter 6 can do it, no items needed.

Slayer is generally overlooked but he pwns Demi Liches.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Kangaxx is one of those boss monsters that requires the power word: quick load spell. Beating him hinges upon having one of a very short list of specific things that you would normally never carry.

Uh, protection from XXX-scrolls are something I always carry with me. Facing a named lich would be a great hint to actually use one or both Protection form Magic / Protection from Undead.

Is there any reason to suspect that he will be instantly rape your party, while every other powerful named undead can't? To keep protection from undead/magic up, you would need 6 scrolls for the first part, then you have to wait till it runs out so you can talk to him, then use another 6 scrolls. And you still rely on metagaming knowledge to know ahead of time that he was the one to use them for. How is a player supposed to know that Bodhi wasn't the ultimate undead boss that could imprison at will and that they should use their scrolls for her?

BS I already posted the tutorial to killing him. Defeat the normal form like you would any other mage (buff up, circle hasted fighters around him, get a few hits before he fires his contingencies, then debuff him what have you and hack away some more). Then when he turns into the floating skull pull fighters back, turn into slayer (immunity to imprisonment, his only attack at that form) and beat the living shit outta him. It ain't pretty but it gets the job done nice and easy and any party at chapter 6 can do it, no items needed.

Which means jack shit if you didn't know he can imprison your party and have the counter ready. To say nothing of what a party that doesn't have slayer form can do. Yes we know anyone can kill any boss with a tutorial. Can a first time player expect to beat the fight if they are decently equipped and use a normal amount of caution? Absolutely not.

If they wanted to make the fight with kangaxx reasonable, they should have included some kind of notification to the player that Kangaxx can instant kill you with his first attack. After you get the quest maybe you can ask around about powerful liches, maybe you find a book somewhere discribing them. Whatever.

 

[Melcar]

Or just lay a shitload of traps where he appears first, rage (like what we all do ), and beat him silly with a +4 weapon (that stick you can buy at the Adventurer's Mart will do nicely). The vanilla game (even with the patches) threats all those vs. weapons as their lower enchantment (meaning that nifty mace and the Daystar are really only +2 weapons). The fixpack fixes this (they change them to +4 weapons).

 

[Gay-Lussac]

BS I already posted the tutorial to killing him. Defeat the normal form like you would any other mage (buff up, circle hasted fighters around him, get a few hits before he fires his contingencies, then debuff him what have you and hack away some more). Then when he turns into the floating skull pull fighters back, turn into slayer (immunity to imprisonment, his only attack at that form) and beat the living shit outta him. It ain't pretty but it gets the job done nice and easy and any party at chapter 6 can do it, no items needed.

Which means jack shit if you didn't know he can imprison your party and have the counter ready. To say nothing of what a party that doesn't have slayer form can do. Yes we know anyone can kill any boss with a tutorial. Can a first time player expect to beat the fight if they are decently equipped and use a normal amount of caution? Absolutely not.

So basically you want to beat the most cheese filled optional boss in the game in a first try and on chapter 2. Ok then.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Or just lay a shitload of traps where he appears first, rage (like what we all do ), and beat him silly with a +4 weapon (that stick you can buy at the Adventurer's Mart will do nicely). The vanilla game (even with the patches) threats all those vs. weapons as their lower enchantment (meaning that nifty mace and the Daystar are really only +2 weapons). The fixpack fixes this (they change them to +4 weapons).

He'll still imprison the party without the slayer form, and buying that scroll of freedom later can be a pain (not to mention it will break romances and shit)

 

[Melcar]

Or just lay a shitload of traps where he appears first, rage (like what we all do ), and beat him silly with a +4 weapon (that stick you can buy at the Adventurer's Mart will do nicely). The vanilla game (even with the patches) threats all those vs. weapons as their lower enchantment (meaning that nifty mace and the Daystar are really only +2 weapons). The fixpack fixes this (they change them to +4 weapons).

He'll still imprison the party without the slayer form, and buying that scroll of freedom later can be a pain (not to mention it will break romances and shit)

Without using some improved script, he just focuses on the nearest non-death/disabled character.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

So basically you want to beat the most cheese filled optional boss in the game in a first try and on chapter 2. Ok then.

Exactly, the boss is cheese. The boss presents absolutely no difficulty other then having already faced him once. The chance of beating him the first time you encounter him with no knowledge whatsoever is almost zero, while every other time you can beat him 100% easily no matter how piss weak your party is. That is not a good boss design.

 

[Panthera]

I spammed magic missiles on Sarevok. That was a bitch of a fight, and it was the only thing I could find to reliably damage him.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I'm not actually stupid in general, maybe I was just stupid in that fight but it seemed atypically hard compared with every other fight I've ever encountered.

Let me just set it straight that I was not implying that you were stupid; it's just that I found it incredible that someone could not successfully use the "sidestep dance" tactic in the EOB games. The only way that this tactic cannot work is because your input speed isn't fast enough. There can be tons of reasons why that is before mental issues (if any) come into question.

If you feel offended by my words, then I hereby apologize. No insult was intended.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Overweight Manatee, you need just two scrolls, for your main melee guy who tanks the lich in both forms. If you have Minsc, just rage him and off you go. Ever after I discovered in BG how Minsc enraged became immune to the dire charm that Sirine's put on people, I always use him when there's a the slightest risk of chaos/domination/charm/confusion/maze/imprisonment whatever. Two cure light wounds will take care of the penalty and Minsc won't even butcher your party if no-one is too near.

Yes, it's a cheesy fight but it is possible to win without previous knowledge of the encounter. Not saying that was common or easy.

 

[Deadeye Dragoon]

Let me just set it straight that I was not implying that you were stupid; it's just that I found it incredible that someone could not successfully use the "sidestep dance" tactic in the EOB games. The only way that this tactic cannot work is because your input speed isn't fast enough. There can be tons of reasons why that is before mental issues (if any) come into question.

If you feel offended by my words, then I hereby apologize. No insult was intended.

No worries. I just started to realize I might be stupid, from my own perspective

 

[friartucksduck]

Aec'Letec, the demon in Ulgoth's Beard in BG:ToTSC. Respawning in his acolytes if you don't kill them first, perma-killing party members and turning them into ghasts, silencing magic users, and pretty damn imposing melee attacks. Takes some luck and excellent tactics to bring all party members through the fight. Probably not the hardest in any CRPG, but the most frustrating one I've ever come across.

 

[Zed]

There's a named lich ("revenant") in DA:O. He was quite a challenge. He was actually impossible for me to beat the first time I met him.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

I'll add another tough encounter from DA:O. There's a room with a demon who mind-controls a Templar (fighter with some divine magic). Right after a cutscene the party is standing pretty close to the enemies, and the first thing the templar does is cast some centered blast that knocks everybody away and stuns, and at the same time some corpses rise up and the demon starts casting whatever as well.

The room is fairly small and I could never avoid that initial blast, which usually meant at least one of my guys gets killed by the zombies while still stunned. Both the two "bosses" are pretty damn strong, and even if I take the templar out of the fight with a force field (which doesn't seem to work on the demon at all) the other bastards take way too long to kill.

It was late at night when I tried that one and I wanted to get to the end of that particular mission, but right at that moment I was too frustrated and tired to do it over and over again and just went to Easy difficulty (down from Hardcore). And even then it took a bit of effort to finish that one.

 

[Black Cat]

@ Lighbane

You speak to the deepest and most private parts of my heart. I see your DoDonPachi Dai and raise a Hellsinker.

Stage 6 boss.
True last boss.
A diferent last boss.