TigerKnee
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,920
IMO, yes, although it's not perfect, I do think it has a lot more hits than misses.Are the Nohr maps design and gameplay any good?
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
The Fire Emblem Thread
- Thread starter Martius
- Start date
Having watched the video, I'm not particularly upset by the removal of interactive girl-stroking scenes from a purely practical standpoint. I wouldn't want to play through such a sequence, let alone be seen playing one by another human being. I believe there's a genuine cultural divide here—no SJW or feminist thought police required. That's not to say, however, that NoA didn't have SJW rabble-rousers in mind when they censored some of these scenes. They very well may have, because the gaming press is fully saturated by SJWs. In fact, plenty of small-time outlets—including the venerable RPGFan, which features 100% amateur reviews and has been running for nearly twenty years—is now full of white knighting man-blobs. Years back, I liked RPGFan, as it was a great source of weaboo popamole summaries, albeit very biased summaries.
Like it or not, Japanese developers are extremely concerned with ensuring that their games receive as much publicity and traction as possible in the West. Games designed wholly with Japanese sensibilities in mind are often a hard sell in the first place; it's been a decades-long struggle, as anyone who wallows in weeaboo popamole ought to know. The actual Japanese people over at Nintendo HQ most probably don't give the slightest flying fuck about SJWs and feminists, but are only trying to adapt to Western sensibilities as they always have. Keep in mind too that a number of smaller Japanese developers have been known to openly taunt and mock SJWs on social media.
Whisky
Delterius
@et al.
Let me get this straight: You object to NoA pandering to SJWs in whole or in part, and as a means of protest, you won't buy the games. Yet, you still plan to pirate and play them.
You're making a stand based on principle alone, yet you're still going to play the game. Do you not see how thoroughly you're undermining the stance you've taken? I've boycotted EA for nearly a decade. I don't read about their games, I don't discuss their games for the most part, and I don't play their games, to include pirating. If you're against what they stand for, on principle mind you, then wash your hands of them entirely.
Like it or not, Japanese developers are extremely concerned with ensuring that their games receive as much publicity and traction as possible in the West. Games designed wholly with Japanese sensibilities in mind are often a hard sell in the first place; it's been a decades-long struggle, as anyone who wallows in weeaboo popamole ought to know. The actual Japanese people over at Nintendo HQ most probably don't give the slightest flying fuck about SJWs and feminists, but are only trying to adapt to Western sensibilities as they always have. Keep in mind too that a number of smaller Japanese developers have been known to openly taunt and mock SJWs on social media.
Whisky
Delterius
@et al.
Let me get this straight: You object to NoA pandering to SJWs in whole or in part, and as a means of protest, you won't buy the games. Yet, you still plan to pirate and play them.
You're making a stand based on principle alone, yet you're still going to play the game. Do you not see how thoroughly you're undermining the stance you've taken? I've boycotted EA for nearly a decade. I don't read about their games, I don't discuss their games for the most part, and I don't play their games, to include pirating. If you're against what they stand for, on principle mind you, then wash your hands of them entirely.
Note however that I don't condone GamerGate, because unless you're a complete dumbass, you should have already abandoned mainstream review mags/sites and AAA shovelware as lost causes ages ago. All you're doing is providing a handy whipping boy and rich gristle for the feminist strawman mill, because 90% of the modern gaming public is oblivious to any of the controversy, while today's "gaming journalists" and most individual AAA developers are the sort of wishy-washy, line-toeing leftists and no-talent hacks with b-type personalities who just lap this shit up. The Codex thread is up to, what, 3,000 pages? Go the fuck outside, dorks. This is coming from the Codex's premier oppressor of SJWs and feminists.
Hobo Elf
Arcane
You're missing the other issue of NoA butchering the translation. Removing roneryfag bait was only one layer in the problem. And it's not an issue exclusive to this game. NoA has been fucking up game after game for a good few years now. We've seen translators admit that they rewrite parts of the script because they think they can do a better job than the original writer. I've studied translation a teency weency bit, and this kind of rewriting is very much looked down upon by the translator establishment.
Hobo Elf I'm fully aware that rewrites are generally frowned upon in translation communities, although there are several types of rewriting, and it is sometimes far preferable to rewrite than to do a literal translation.
A completely literal translation can end up being phrased very awkwardly, and so a "soft rewrite" may simply restructure the way information is communicated. This is the least invasive type of rewrite.
Many jokes, cultural references, and pop culture references make absolutely no sense to any Westerner who doesn't eat Pocky and sushi three meals per day, so a "partial rewrite" might be done, for example by replacing some obscure Japanese food with a better-known Japanese food or a Western food, or replacing a joke about monkeys grooming in hot springs with a joke about... uh, something.
Then there's the "hard rewrite" or "true rewrite": The writer is aware of the context and content of the text, but rewrites it almost entirely. He will usually try to stick to the general spirit, theme, and/or intent of the original text, but it's dramatically altered.
Finally, there's the "sacrilege rewrite" in which the so-called "translator" hasn't the faintest inkling of the original text, but invents what he thinks might be appropriate given the images and scenes on hand. This is the unforgivable sin, and no one like sacrilege rewrites.
I can't read moon runes, so I have no way of knowing what sort of rewrites people are protesting or, more to the point, how pervasive they are in the new Fire Emblems. I have to wonder though whether it really matters, because the fact is, yeah, weeaboo pop IS full of this dating sim/school kids shits lately. Was the original text actually good enough to mourn its loss? Surely it's enough that it simply not be outright bad or poorly written (technically).
The main draw is tactical battles and customizing your little dudes, and one upside of the super-gay "dating, marriage, and children" system in recent FEs is that it adds an extra layer of customization and shit. I sort of approve of pickle boy up there, because if I have to suffer through two pixelated soldiers having a romance, it should at least be bizarre and/or over-the-top enough that I smirk every once in a while.
Now if it's the main plot that was butchered, that's something else.
A completely literal translation can end up being phrased very awkwardly, and so a "soft rewrite" may simply restructure the way information is communicated. This is the least invasive type of rewrite.
Many jokes, cultural references, and pop culture references make absolutely no sense to any Westerner who doesn't eat Pocky and sushi three meals per day, so a "partial rewrite" might be done, for example by replacing some obscure Japanese food with a better-known Japanese food or a Western food, or replacing a joke about monkeys grooming in hot springs with a joke about... uh, something.
Then there's the "hard rewrite" or "true rewrite": The writer is aware of the context and content of the text, but rewrites it almost entirely. He will usually try to stick to the general spirit, theme, and/or intent of the original text, but it's dramatically altered.
Finally, there's the "sacrilege rewrite" in which the so-called "translator" hasn't the faintest inkling of the original text, but invents what he thinks might be appropriate given the images and scenes on hand. This is the unforgivable sin, and no one like sacrilege rewrites.
I can't read moon runes, so I have no way of knowing what sort of rewrites people are protesting or, more to the point, how pervasive they are in the new Fire Emblems. I have to wonder though whether it really matters, because the fact is, yeah, weeaboo pop IS full of this dating sim/school kids shits lately. Was the original text actually good enough to mourn its loss? Surely it's enough that it simply not be outright bad or poorly written (technically).
The main draw is tactical battles and customizing your little dudes, and one upside of the super-gay "dating, marriage, and children" system in recent FEs is that it adds an extra layer of customization and shit. I sort of approve of pickle boy up there, because if I have to suffer through two pixelated soldiers having a romance, it should at least be bizarre and/or over-the-top enough that I smirk every once in a while.
Now if it's the main plot that was butchered, that's something else.
Siveon
Bot
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 4,509
If I may speak for myself (and act like you were addressing me as well), not really. I plan on waiting for when my 3DS can be hacked (I have a 10.5), and then import the game (Nohr) when the fan translation is finished. With a hopefully better script than what NoA shat out, in its full waifu pandering state. No matter how shit I pile on Awakening, I still like the series as a whole - I just can't stand how bad the localization was/is.
Though if there isn't a demo, I might pirate it just to see if I could stand the Awakening sequel (Hoshido) as well.
The pickle boy is a bad example, honestly. It's not that funny to be worth changing a character's entire mannerisms for no apparent reason (what the fuck, pickles?). Though perhaps I shouldn't be talking, since I loved companies like Working Designs adding a bit of humor/cultural references. I don't think I'd enjoy Popful Mail without them.
Hobo Elf
Arcane
A big draw, which does influence which characters you pick for said tactical battles, is that these soldiers come with unique personalities. It's pretty boneheaded of the "translator" to assume that they can do a better job at writing a character from scratch. Yes, sometimes you can't make literal translations, but you'd want to at least try to capture the essence of the character, which doesn't seem to be even remotely the case from what I've seen (fan translation vs NoA comparisons). Imagine if a character was a noble samurai and he acted strictly according to the Japanese samurai code of honor, and instead of making a western adaptation of said character follow, say, the knightly code of chivalry, he'd just be rewritten as some retard who keeps making awkward vegetable related puns. These aren't people who are trying to deal with complex subjects that we westerners couldn't understand due to clashing cultural differences, these are hacks who are injecting internet memes into the script because "dude lmao this dank meme I just read on 4chan/reddit/whatever".
GrainWetski
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2012
- Messages
- 5,106
Unless your name is Helen Lovejoy, I'm not entirely sure why you would defend NoA/Treehouse.
I believe I'm participating in what is colloquially referred to as a "conversation." A conversation is an interaction during which individuals exchange opinions and information. As is plain to see, I don't have all the facts, I fully realize that I don't have all the facts, and my opinion will vary based on a number of factors.
I'm also not defending NoA per se. If they are rewriting somber dialogue into wacky bullshit they pulled out of their asses solely for the spicy meme factor, then clearly that's a shitty way to rewrite and is something I disagree with. I've always just assumed it was wacky bullshit in the first place (but Japanese flavored); if I'm wrong, then yeah, NoA deserves a place on my shit list.
I'm also not defending NoA per se. If they are rewriting somber dialogue into wacky bullshit they pulled out of their asses solely for the spicy meme factor, then clearly that's a shitty way to rewrite and is something I disagree with. I've always just assumed it was wacky bullshit in the first place (but Japanese flavored); if I'm wrong, then yeah, NoA deserves a place on my shit list.
Whisky
The Solution
Blaine, based on dumped dialogue from the original, the pickle thing is entirely made up by the localization team; the character above is some brooding boring character in the original, he definitely needed better writing but this is not the way. There's also a lot of other really cringy writing examples you can see on image boards and overall it feels like a hack job. NoA's current team loves the shit out of adding wacky meme (I'm at work, but there's a picture comparing the Link to the Past sequel for the 3DS's English translation by NoA and the one by NoE that sums it all up.)
I am actually a huge fan of many localizations that are not literal. I think Woolsey did a hell of a job back in the day. Modern NoA is no Ted Woolsey.
And I'm aware Awakening had plenty of cringy localization writing too. I was merely...awoken, shall we say, by the recent leaks.
I am actually a huge fan of many localizations that are not literal. I think Woolsey did a hell of a job back in the day. Modern NoA is no Ted Woolsey.
And I'm aware Awakening had plenty of cringy localization writing too. I was merely...awoken, shall we say, by the recent leaks.
Hobo Elf
Arcane
NoE removed gay marriages afaik
Perkel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 15,892
They didn't. You can poke anuses as you will.
BTW give me your name in 3ds friendlist. I had to make emunand and i lost all my friendlist.
Delterius
Arcane
Blaine, that's actually the opposite of my stance. The chip on my shoulder is the worry that Fire Emblem post Awakening would pander more closely to otaku minded audiences in the west and devolve into a purely casual tacticool JRPG. Sure, there's Nohr now but what about the future?
If anything I'm happy that NoA is trolling the western otakus by diminishing the dating sim mechanics. I could not care less about SJWs and GamerGate at this point though I do find its funny that people on the GG thread are likening this obvious cultural divide with SJW pandering when, in reality, japanese developers of mainstream games like Fire Emblem have always been wary of how their games are received in the USA.
As Hobo Elf pointed out, the translation team is changing more than warranted. Likewise, this isn't a new issue. Japanese games have often been mistranslated because someone state side decided they knew best, no SJW required.
Hobo Elf
Arcane
0962-9949-6556
Yeah, the weeaboo tears have been delicious, same with the Gamergate tears. It's a completely retarded addition to the game that was taken out, petting at least made sense in Pokemon, because they're supposed to be monster-pets.
The translation is so bad that it has gone beyond so-bad-it's-good into pure trash territory, which is also hilarious because Awakening had an equally bad translation, and both games had shit plots anyway.
Zanzoken
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,590
Why would anyone -- especially on the Codex of all places -- care about the story, characters, and dialogues in a Fire Emblem game? I am a fan of the series but has the writing ever been anything more than standard JRPG tripe?
Good encounter design is literally the only thing the games need in order to be fun.
Good encounter design is literally the only thing the games need in order to be fun.
Because previous FE games before Awakening had tolerable to good plots/characters/dialogue, while Awakening and Fates are completely horrible in every conceivable way.
The map design sucks too, which is one of the most important parts of the game aside from the units being designed well.
You must be new here. The Codex is packed to the rafters with storyfags, including venerable ones in their mid-thirties and early forties who cut their teeth on the first Wizardries et al.
Tactics Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics had very good stories given the limitations of the genre, featuring Machiavellian political intrigues, sinister plots, betrayals and backstabbing, assassinations, tragedies and atrocities, and so on.
Delterius
Arcane
Personally, I don't care about the writing in itself but rather how its symbolic of the series' casualization. Awakening introduced Casual mode and its encounter design was rather subpar. It was still a commercial success. That FE: Fates even bothers to include the Nohr path in itself is a shock: the tendency is that the series will have mediocre encounter design and will keep its sales due to severe weaboo pandering.
Then again, Fates is also the first Fire Emblem with a dedicated writer - supposedly a veteran from mangás - so I hoped the writing would be above average.
Whisky
The Solution
FE never had stellar writing but before Awakening they had a few compelling characters and some interesting surprises in the support dialogues alongside the occasional waifus one. Post Awakening the supports are all a means to an end for waifus.
TigerKnee
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,920
Back when the main concept was presented (before anything like face-petting was revealed), the plot outline actually seemed like it had some potential (and I still think it does.)
Whoever ended up executing it though just completely bungled it with some of the most stupid plot elements I've seen in my life and the split games makes it worse because the stories were clearly not meant to be read stand-alone and must be done in a specific order in order for it to make the remotest amount of sense (though it still sucks anyway even if you do)
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.