The decline of the Elder Scrolls series

[octavius]

Actually, that was a good idea. Forcing you to run the whole linear stretch back with no enemies/puzzles/anything would be completely pointless.

No. The good idea would've been to re-introduce mark and recall. Same effect, without making dungeons feel like some contrived circular made-for-adventurer-convenience structures.

Being able to cast Recall and quaffing as many potions as you like in combat, were among the many things that made MW too easy.
But having a Recall spell that worked only outside combat in Oblivion would have been nice.

 

[General Maxson]

If I had to choose from which major AAA+ developer I'm forced to play games from, it would be Bethesda. Yes their games have declined all in the pursuit of the almighty $, but still, IMO they are lightyears ahead of Bioware, Blizzard and other major players (if there are any ). Only newer Bioware game that wasn't utter crap was Dragon Age Origins.

But it IS sad to see so much potential squandered in conforming to lowest common denominator. As their games also have the most potential, because of their open world style and size.

 

[madrigal]

In Morrowind only landmarks were marked on the paper map. You had to read book, visit local bars and bribe herdsmen, scouts, bandits to gain even the location you will start your search, if you were wrong race and/or guild and sucked at social skills... your loss. This is why Imperials with 85 at personality had easy despite not being optimized for magic/melee.

What about all the other games in the series, unless you thought that in arena, asking an npc the same question over and over until they marked something on your map was incline, the elder scrolls series started in the toilet, so why argue about a series that was shit from the beginning.

 

[groke]

why argue about a series that was shit from the beginning.

Why indeed, madrigal?

 

[Jack]

asking an npc the same question over and over until they marked something on your map

Did we play the same game? This literally never happens. The only time you have to really ask around is when you want to find an artifact, but since they are supposed to be rare magical items many people believe to be myth I think that it's justified that you have to give it some effort to find them.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Bethesda can't do decent dungeons any more due to "technical limitations", like moving platforms and ladders. I tried to give Skyrim the benefit of the doubt, that maybe the shitty hallway wraparound dungeons would turn into something more interesting as I got further into the game. After Labyrinthian, I realised it was hopeless.

NEV4R 4GET

Funny thing, the first time I entered Labyrinthian in Arena, I just used the Skeleton Key to directly bypass the special doors, avoiding 99% of the dungeon instantly.

 

[SwiftCrack]

Skyrim did it better than Oblivion, dungeonwise .

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Skyrim was a much better game than Oblivion. I don't think you can say the series is declining, you'd have to think Oblivion was better than Skyrim to make that case. I love Morrowind, and I think Skyrim was close to getting back to those heights. The quests and factions weren't as good as Morrowind's, but it had that same thrill of exploration and a well-designed world.

 

[General Maxson]

Skyrim was a much better game than Oblivion. I don't think you can say the series is declining, you'd have to think Oblivion was better than Skyrim to make that case. I love Morrowind, and I think Skyrim was close to getting back to those heights. The quests and factions weren't as good as Morrowind's, but it had that same thrill of exploration and a well-designed world.

If only Skyrim didn't simplify stats and attributes to the point I'm don't really consider it an rpg game. More of an FPS/Action/Lite rpg hybrid. Like System Shock, or Deus Ex, only shittier.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Not to mention the rape of Elder Scrolls Magic; at least warriors are now more fun to play than both Morrowind and Oblibion.

 

[madrigal]

asking an npc the same question over and over until they marked something on your map

Did we play the same game? This literally never happens. The only time you have to really ask around is when you want to find an artifact, but since they are supposed to be rare magical items many people believe to be myth I think that it's justified that you have to give it some effort to find them.

So when you ask for directions to the nearest inn, store guild and they give you a compass direction, are you saying that if you keep asking they won't mark it on your map?

 

[Mastermind]

Being able to cast Recall and quaffing as many potions as you like in combat, were among the many things that made MW too easy.
But having a Recall spell that worked only outside combat in Oblivion would have been nice.

"They make the game too easy" is probably the top excuse Todd used to remove all the cool shit like levitation.

 

[Rahdulan]

Want to know what went wrong summarized in a single picture?

 

[DalekFlay]

Skyrim might be shit compared to Daggerfall and Morrowind but I still find it an enjoyable game. It's got a nice aesthetic, some decent quests and passable writing. Oblivion on the other hand literally disgusts me with how retarded it looks, plays and sounds almost all the time.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Decline? Skyrim sold like never other TES title before and received unanimous praises despite of the usual run of bugs that plague any Bethesda game.

It's not decline, it's just adapting your product to the changed tastes of the market and current hardware landscape.
In this, they did a much better job than Bioware.

If anything is declining, that is the taste of the consumers.

let's say most of the people likes beat'em'up like in the 90s.
tell me how in the hell these people are supposed to vote with their wallets if there isn't a single game like that on the market.
there is none. no way to express their satisfaction. at best, they can settle with the closest thing which doesn't make them vomit.

all this of course in a perfect world populated by sentient persons who can think by themselves and are absolutely not piloted by corrupt medias and gigantic marketing operations.

 

[Gozma]

Daggerfall dungeons were an interesting experiment that got used in the wrong way. If they'd done the same thing with a more Rogue-like spin they'd have worked fine, but actually having to search those giant random dungeons for a particular thing in a particular room was psychotic. Just have a dungeon with three or four magical down staircases that connect a new dungeon section, have a dungeon with 2-3 "floors" thus constructed, then at the bottom floor have a set piece where the quest item is and a portal/rope/elevator/whatever that takes you back to the surface. Scatter around some risk/reward rooms too.

 

[godsend1989]

I was actually searching for a thread like this for some time to express my feeling towards Morrowind...

The game is just a big fat juicy errand simulator, and to make it more fun they made teleporting extremely frustrating, i realize i was wasting my time so i uninstalled it, so much for the grand Morrowind pfff...

 

[Mother Russia]

Actually, while I have not played Skyrim (or Oblivion) I always hated the magic spell generator. It trivialized magic, and made it unfun.

Having custom, designer made spells is much better, because then you can have spells with unique animations and effects, and also offer sekrit, uber powerful spells as rewards for exploring in out of the way places

 

[Whisky]

For most the gap clearly came with Oblivion. Some dislike Morrowind because, yes, it did remove quite a bit from Daggerfall and the combat is...well, we all know how it is.

Morrowind is still my favorite of the series (Do note, I have not played Daggerfall. I tried to get it running but it would not work). With all the open-world games released nowadays with a boring, empty world, Morrowind really stands out because of the level of thought and development put into the culture of the people of Vvardenfell. Most of the towns are instantly recognizable and just looking at screenshots of wilderness, you can usually get an idea of what part of the island it is on. The cities in Oblivion on the other hand are so boring that you probably couldn't tell which one you were in unless you had a map (And don't get me started on the wilderness.).

Bethesda did try with Skyrim to make the world more interesting, but it doesn't even come close to Morrowind.

In short, Morrowind is probably the only really good hiking simulator around. If it had a good combat system, it would be absolutely phenomenal.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

having to search those giant random dungeons for a particular thing in a particular room was psychotic.

True, but it also meant that you sometimes gave up and left the dungeon without finishing the quest. I don't remember doing this in any other game and that went well with the game's design philosophy regarding save/reload. A good one at that, although Mondblut would strongly disagree I guess :

 

[Wyrmlord]

If they'd done the same thing with a more Rogue-like spin they'd have worked fine, but actually having to search those giant random dungeons for a particular thing in a particular room was psychotic.

Psychotic?

Sometimes it takes as little time as two minutes for me. Worst case five minutes. More than that, I reload back to the Mages Guild and get another quest.

Especially when you have Invisibility and a high Speed character. Plus Levitate. That way, you run through the whole place in a very short amount of time. Your main focus is always pulleys, levers, portals, and hidden rooms. Everything else can be ignored. You just have to be a bit mindful and clever, and it feels like nothing.

Hell, I have done three daedric quests one after another in the span of a single 30-minute session.

 

[wormix]

One of the many problems with Daggerfall was all the quests rewarded the same gold and reputation. No point in going into a dungeon on the other side of the province to kill a lich when you could turn down quests (with no drawback) until you got one to take care of a rat in some guys house down the street. Not to mention the bugs, such as not even having to kill said rat to collect the reward.

 

[evdk]

One of the many problems with Daggerfall was all the quests rewarded the same gold and reputation. No point in going into a dungeon on the other side of the province to kill a lich when you could turn down quests (with no drawback) until you got one to take care of a rat in some guys house down the street. Not to mention the bugs, such as not even having to kill said rat to collect the reward.

That's just the fabled rat diplomacy in action.

 

[Regvard]

Actually, that was a good idea. Forcing you to run the whole linear stretch back with no enemies/puzzles/anything would be completely pointless.

No. The good idea would've been to re-introduce mark and recall. Same effect, without making dungeons feel like some contrived circular made-for-adventurer-convenience structures.

This. Never really had to backtrack through long dungeons in Morrowind after I discovered mark, recall and divine intervention.

 

[Wyrmlord]

One of the many problems with Daggerfall was all the quests rewarded the same gold and reputation. No point in going into a dungeon on the other side of the province to kill a lich when you could turn down quests (with no drawback) until you got one to take care of a rat in some guys house down the street. Not to mention the bugs, such as not even having to kill said rat to collect the reward.

Whoah, whoah, hold on there.

Different quests have different reputation point rewards.

And different quests are blocked to different levels of reputation.

If you already have a high level of skill (borrow loads of money and train yourself) and if your personality and past deeds ensure you have a high reputation before you join the Guild, nobody will ever ask you to kill a rat. They will straight away ask you to handle a lot more complicated tasks. And if you do handle those complicated tasks like banishing daedra, you get higher reputation point rewards.

For example, if you have already made a strong reputation as a Brother of the Temple of Julianos, and if you already have developed a high level of skill in Alteration, Mysticism, and Thaumaturgy as a Brother of Julianos, then when you join the Mages Guild, you will straight away begin as a medium-to-high ranking member, and straight away get the really challenging tasks. Your reputation from other guilds carries over. Nobody will ask the Patriarch of a temple to wash dishes and clean out rats if he joins any guild. And nobody will ask the Archmage of the Mages Guild to run chores for a temple.

I have checked this myself several times. I got promoted to Archmage of the Mages Guild without doing Mages Guild quests. Why? Because I regularly did favours for friends of the Mages Guild - namely the Daedric Princes. Doing daedric quests over and over made my character highly reputed across several guilds.