The decline - a myth?

[thesisko]

All I see is people moaning about is how dumb games aimed at the massmarket are. Weren't those games always dumb?

What's so shocking and new, that they have huge ass budgets these days or that they have made previously "reputable" gaming review outlets their lapdogs?

Mario Kart 64 sold 9 million copies in 1997. Fallout sold less than 100 000 the same year. Why would anyone expect anything more intelligent from a game selling 9 million copies today?

 

[Exmit]

Decline of rpgs.


Also, way to compare 2 different genres to each other.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

It's not just a matter of games going from "intelligent" to "dumb". Example:

 

[MetalCraze]

Decline is a myth. But for a different reason.

The reason is hypocrisy.

The majority of the Codex is console gamers. Yet they moan about dumbing down while supporting it.

Many on the Codex buy from Steam. Yet they moan about DRM becoming more and more common everywhere.



So where is the decline when some faggot bitches about how console games have turned gaming into shit and then proceeds to buy all Mass Effect 2 DLCs?

 

[asper]

Please show me games like

Midwinter
Elite: Frontier
Elite
UFO: Enemy Unknown
UFO: Terror From the Deep
Jagged Alliance
Planescape Torment
System Shock
Ultima Underworld
The Last Express
Populous
Syndicate
Dungeon Master
Covert Action
Alpha Centauri
Master of Magic
Master of Orion
Ascendacy
Quest for Glory
KGB
Bloodnet
Ultima 7
Wizardry
Thief
Myth
Dune
Magic Carpet
Little Big Adventure
Wasteland
Commandos
Gene Wars
Blade Runner

being made today.

Also, show me innovation, new genres being invented, like in the late '90; Dune 2, Doom.

Moreover, you're saying that a whole genre hasn't completely died ---adventures? Show me games made in that field that are as good and ambitious (and have the same budget) as they were in the 90ies. Are there any realistic non-arcade flightsims or sub sims being made today?

Thanks.

Because apparently I have missed something.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Decline is a myth. But for a different reason.

The reason is hypocrisy.

The majority of the Codex is console gamers. Yet they moan about dumbing down while supporting it.

Many on the Codex buy from Steam. Yet they moan about DRM becoming more and more common everywhere.



So where is the decline when some faggot bitches about how console games have turned gaming into shit and then proceeds to buy all Mass Effect 2 DLCs?

How many times did you play kotor, how high did you score farenheit again?

 

[MetalCraze]

And so? Do I bitch about them on every corner while spending my money on them at the same time?
Besides KotOR is superior to anything called "RPG" now.

And they are what, 6-8 years old now?

 

[thesisko]

It's not just a matter of games going from "intelligent" to "dumb". Example:

Completely pointless example. CoD: Black Cocks isn't a fucking successor to Doom, more like to Rebel Assault, another pointlessly linear on-rails shooter.

On the other hand, exploring Vault 11 in New Vegas looking for some techno-piece of crap and getting irradiated and having all my limbs blown off reminded me a bit of Doom.
Try comparing maps of S.T.A.L.K.E.R and Doom instead if you want to see the "evolution" of FPS.

 

[Gragt]

Besides KotOR is superior to anything called "RPG" now.

 

[thesisko]

Have only played a few of those games so commenting on those. Also, it seems a tad unfair to single out your top twenty of 20 years and complain nothing better is coming out

Elite: Frontier
Space Rangers 2

Planescape Torment
Mask of the Betrayer

System Shock
Replayed it a few weeks ago. Don't know why you'd want a game just like it. Having way more fun playing New Vegas. And System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are more recent and better.

Alpha Centauri
Civilization IV is different, but I wouldn't say it's dumbed down or a decline

Dune
Was nothing special. Linear adventure game combined with bare-bones strategy elements.

Also, show me innovation, new genres being invented, like in the late '90; Dune 2, Doom.

STALKER, Minecraft, Braid, Portal felt pretty innovative to me in different ways.

Moreover, you're saying that a whole genre hasn't completely died ---adventures? Show me games made in that field that are as good and ambitious (and have the same budget) as they were in the 90ies. Are there any realistic non-arcade flightsims or sub sims being made today?

DCS Black Shark, Warthog, IL-2? Dunno, never was very interested in hardcore flight sims, guess you can blame me for the decline!

Adventure games dying was an industry trend thing, happened somewhere around 1999, with plenty of our beloved "complex" games coming out. Also, adventure games were always very simplistic and accessible so can hardly blame "dumbing down" for their decline.

Actually, if anything there is an "incline" in gaming since games like STALKER, Minecraft and Total War sell millions. Similar games in the 90's would probably only have sold a few hundred thousands at most.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Also, show me innovation, new genres being invented, like in the late '90; Dune 2, Doom.

No "new" genres have been made since the first half of the 1990s, and even then it was only the popularization, or actualization of a genre that had been created earlier, most likely in the 1980s. The first RTS game was released in 1989, while very primitive FPS games existed as early as 1983.

Moreover, you're saying that a whole genre hasn't completely died ---adventures? Show me games made in that field that are as good and ambitious (and have the same budget) as they were in the 90ies. Are there any realistic non-arcade flightsims or sub sims being made today?

But he's right. None of the "main" game genres have died out...yet. True, The adventure game genre has seen a massive reduction in production, budget and popularity since the 1990s, but it's not dead.

Several sub-genres, however, have pretty much died out, due either to technologial advancements ("Interactive Fiction") or to the extreme lack of titles being produced in it (just about any "realistic" simulator not involving a car).

As for this picture, I dissected it back when DU first posted it back when it was new. The problem with it (except for the clearly slanted argument put within) is that it's a bad choice of Doom map to demonstrate freedom of movement, especially compared to level design nowadays. This particular Doom map is, truth be told, NO DIFFERENT from the example on the right.

The decline is not a myth, it is very very real. There are posters here, however, who both overemphasize minor parts of it, and completely ignore the more serious aspects of the decline, such as the eroding of our rights as a gamer consumer.

 

[thesisko]

The decline is not a myth, it is very very real. There are posters here, however, who both overemphasize minor parts of it, and completely ignore the more serious aspects of the decline, such as the eroding of our rights as a gamer consumer.

In what way? Did Nintendo care much about gamers rights in the 90's?

To me it seems like developers who produce niche games (such as Stardock for instance) care as much, if not more about consumer satisfaction than they did before the supposed "decline".

Is big business churning out mass marketable products really expected to give a shit about gamer's "rights"? Why should EA be more concerned about the quality of it's products than CBS is about the intellectual depth of Two and Half Men, as long as it sells?

 

[Gord]

Please show me games like
[...]
Are there any realistic non-arcade flightsims or sub sims being made today?

Thanks.

Because apparently I have missed something.

I guess you did.
For a lot of those games (not for all of them, mind you) you can find some modern equivalent.

E.g. X3 (TC) for space-trade-fighting sim.
While not the same as MOO2, I found Galactic Civilizations 2 - ToA good enough.
There's also a new Thief in the making (but we don't know yet if it will suck)

Realistic flightsim: X-Plane

 

[MetalCraze]

There's also a new Thief in the making (but we don't know yet if it will suck)

 

[Gord]

Skyway's Thief 4 review is out!

 

[pocahaunted]

To be fair, if you actually believe it isn't going to suck then you're in for quite a big surprise.

 

[Gord]

Yes, but a man may dream...

 

[Black]

Then

Now

 

[thesisko]

Then:

Now:

That was as retarded as the FPS map picture. Are you also going to argue that Shakespeare is being dumbed down if Hollywood makes a action-remake of Hamlet starring Jason Statham?

 

[nFn]

Then

Now

I try to fix for U

 

[thesisko]

The Decline <=> Butthurt fanboys crying about their "beloved" developers/franchises/IP selling out to the mainstream market, while continuing to buy their games.

 

[Black]

Cool pics nfn, I've played many X-Com wannabies, 2 of which are on your pics and guess what?
Inferior wannabies are inferior.

The Decline <=> Butthurt fanboys

Wow, a moron who happened to register in 2011, what a shocker.

 

[thesisko]

Cool pics nfn, I've played many X-Com wannabies, 2 of which are on your pics and guess what?
Inferior wannabies are inferior.

And what exactly was your point by linking those pics? Wasn't the X-COM name already butchered by Infogrames back in 2001?

 

[SCO]

Fuck you OP. I CALL DROG!

 

[MetalCraze]

The Decline <=> Butthurt fanboys crying about their "beloved" developers/franchises/IP selling out to the mainstream market, while continuing to buy their games.

The dude may be a moron but he's right here.

Remember how you lot bitched about how Beth raped Fallout?

Then many went and bought F3. Spammed the Codex for a month about how "Bethesda is improving" then when month passed proceeded to shit and piss on Todd and Pete again. Then F3NV came out. Even more of morons went and bought it. And yet continued to piss and shit on Bethesda while fapping to F3NV which is exactly like F3.


And guess what? When a less declining game comes out like Divinity 2 or Risen what happens? Nothing. Morons barely even notice their existence but keep singing their song about "decline".

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Cool pics nfn, I've played many X-Com wannabies, 2 of which are on your pics and guess what?
Inferior wannabies are inferior.

Have you tried the Gold version of UE? I heard it's more like the original.