I rate this post "Edgy"...All that is true though. They are dumbed down games and yet they didn't sell, so clearly the hardcore argument is true? It seems obvious that dudebro tard gamers would much rather play CoD or Battlefield or whatever, they would never want an "immersive sim". But hardcore elite PC gamers would want a game like that, but not if it is dumbed down and console-ified. So when they make dumb console tard sims and they don't sell well, everyone should know why it happened.Codexers: These commercially unsuccessful games would have succeeded if only the developers had made them more hardcore, because us PC gamers are elite people who want smart games
Also Codexers: PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds has been the top-selling game on Steam for five months straight, the world is full of morons
DoS2 and the System Shock games are going to show all these morons how it should work.
p.s. if you don't like codex logic, why are you a moderator? Go moderate on reddit or something, and take that faggot Jaeson with you.
They are doing ok I think because Arma3 is successful and that is the nearest thing gaming has to a big budget simulation nowadays. There are others out there too like DCS, and maybe Elite Dangerous.Immersive Sims aren't going to disappear, they will just become VR games.
(Adressing Dishonored 2) Sorry, I get in a bad mood when a developer namedrops a classic in the hope of attracting sales for a game that shares no more than a passing resemblance as far as gameplay/mechanics is concerned, with that classic, and then turns to excuses like his game being niche. I'm too sophisticated for the world to understand my work, you see. Oh man, I tried to replicate a niche game with my niche game, and now my sales are low, wtf!?Strawmen are bad, OK.I rate you a retard who's talking out of his ass because he hasn't played the old good games and can't compare them to the drivel that is Dishonored to Thief or new DeusEx to the original. There you are.I rate this post "Meh"...Oh, I'm sorry, I did't know I should consult with the opinion of the majority in order to know whether I'm right or not.Ease it with edgelordism, not even around here are Arkane's games or new DE titles viewed as bad or unworthy.
I, and most other folks here, played and loved those games... and at the same time, we also love the new games in that vein. Heck, you have people here who have been modding Thief games for ages, and yet they adore Arkane's new stuff.
I rate this post "Edgy"...All that is true though. They are dumbed down games and yet they didn't sell, so clearly the hardcore argument is true? It seems obvious that dudebro tard gamers would much rather play CoD or Battlefield or whatever, they would never want an "immersive sim". But hardcore elite PC gamers would want a game like that, but not if it is dumbed down and console-ified. So when they make dumb console tard sims and they don't sell well, everyone should know why it happened.Codexers: These commercially unsuccessful games would have succeeded if only the developers had made them more hardcore, because us PC gamers are elite people who want smart games
Also Codexers: PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds has been the top-selling game on Steam for five months straight, the world is full of morons
DoS2 and the System Shock games are going to show all these morons how it should work.
p.s. if you don't like codex logic, why are you a moderator? Go moderate on reddit or something, and take that faggot Jaeson with you.
But am I right or wrong?
They are doing ok I think because Arma3 is successful and that is the nearest thing gaming has to a big budget simulation nowadays. There are others out there too like DCS, and maybe Elite Dangerous.Immersive Sims aren't going to disappear, they will just become VR games.
Codexers: These commercially unsuccessful games would have succeeded if only the developers had made them more hardcore, because us PC gamers are elite people who want smart games
Also Codexers: PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds has been the top-selling game on Steam for five months straight, this world is full of morons
Immersive Sims Pfff
this label is the joke of the century. Most of these games are just first person movies with some interactive sequences and dumb, boring plotlines.
Codexers: These commercially unsuccessful games would have succeeded if only the developers had made them more hardcore, because us PC gamers are elite people who want smart games
Also Codexers: PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds has been the top-selling game on Steam for five months straight, this world is full of morons
It would be interesting to see how game ownership overlaps. Are you more or less likely to buy Prey if you own PUB compared to the average Steam account.
Niche focus vs mass market focus is a silly discussion. A better way to think about this is: One thing is to promise an audience they won't be frustrated, another is to sell an audience WHY they should play your game? Accessibility is a given these days and name dropping Deus Ex or System Shock won't do you much favors with the average gamer.Codexers: These commercially unsuccessful games would have succeeded if only the developers had made them more hardcore, because us PC gamers are elite people who want smart games
Also Codexers: PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds has been the top-selling game on Steam for five months straight, this world is full of morons
Not much overlap according to SteamSpy:
(Account required) http://steamspy.com/audience/578080/480490
Immersive Sims Pfff
this label is the joke of the century.
While I do agree that the term itself is ridiculous, there is some meaning behind it
I haven't bought the game, but they had data that ending of DX: HR was not that well received, and word is that DX MD's ending is even more meh. Even if there aren't that many gamers who actually finish their games, it's something people think when they purchase a game.
Lack of success is because the game was shit and the marketing was even worst.Before you blame anything else for DX: MD's lack of success, it's worth considering the most straightforward explanation - loss of momentum. Developing Thief in between the two games was a huge mistake.
Not much overlap according to SteamSpy:
I don't have quotes but I recall several big studios saying about 30% of players ever finish their games. That's correlates very well with what I have noticed trough Steam achievement system. So it's a good question, main reasons why people drop their games, how many do that because they get distracted, how many because they heard ending was shit, or got plain tired and watched ending from youtube, and so on.I haven't bought the game, but they had data that ending of DX: HR was not that well received, and word is that DX MD's ending is even more meh. Even if there aren't that many gamers who actually finish their games, it's something people think when they purchase a game.
Do people really buy big budget storyfag games to fool around for couple of hours? I'd think that usually most people think that they'll finish the game that they buy its just that most of the time they get distracted by something else.
That's actually a good point, but overall I think it's combination of this and bad marketing decisions (that said, shuffling release schedule can be based on marketing decision too).Before you blame anything else for DX: MD's lack of success, it's worth considering the most straightforward explanation - loss of momentum. Developing Thief in between the two games was a huge mistake.
Games like Dishonored 2 aren't going anywhere, says Harvey Smith
[...] With Death of the Outsider, I feel a familiar worry. The expansion is beautiful and inventive, but I’m afraid that might not be enough.
The immersive sim genre has waned before, and weak sales for games like Prey, Dishonored 2, and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided has us worried that they might be about to disappear again. Dishonored game director Harvey Smith tells me that he’s noticed the dip in sales, but thinks that there will always be enough of an audience to keep immersive sims in development.
"And there's always the talent and the resources to make [immersive sims]," says Smith. "The question is, does one particular budget support the audience? What that means is, even if immersive sims speed up or slow down in terms of production, there's always the indie version of immersive sims like—this year you have Tacoma and next year you'll have something else. I think the demand will drive things."
Plus, there's a lot more to be done with the genre. Though he says he's "not the biggest fan" of the author, Smith muses about David Foster Wallace's idea that fiction's purpose is "to aggravate this sense of entrapment and loneliness and death in people, to move people to countenance it," and wonders what the purpose of games like Dishonored is. "Why do I like breaking and entering in games?" he asks. "Why do I like having the power of death? Why do I like being in a shitty situation?"
"The number of subjects that would be cool to tackle with games like this are endless," continues Smith. "First-person, very coherent world where you're looking for resources and combining things and inferring from environmental storytelling and you're free to do any one of several things. You can just imagine all the different settings and problems that could be approached that way. There are a hundred I'd love to see that don't have anything to do with space stations or cities during plagues or assassins or whatever."
As much potential as there is for the genre, Smith acknowledges that it’s frustrating when a game wins awards but the sales don't match that critical enthusiasm. He thinks it's partially down to the world we live in. In a great world, one with "endless food and power" where "your clothes are 3D printed," he imagines people would be more attracted to violent, simulated struggles, games that help us "feel human." As it is, though, what's popular in our turbulent world is not necessarily what's challenging from his perspective.
“What's that fucking show that everyone loves? Big Bang Theory, yeah,” Smith says. “I have this terrible reaction to seeing a clip of that show—I'm just angry. It doesn't work, it isn't funny, why is it so universally loved? It's upsetting because it might mean that what people really need at the end of the day is to eat in front of the TV, chill out … and just have something told to them that is soothing.”
If that’s true, we might be in for a long drought of immersive sims. But Smith believes that trying to predict the future of these things is a fool’s game, anyway. “One of the funny things about games is, if you stay around long enough, you hear everything,” he says. “I've had people say to me, if you're not making a free-to-play game, you won't have a job in five years—and that was ten years ago ... People who predict the future, man, I don't know. The roads of history are paved with the bones of prophets.”
Before you blame anything else for DX: MD's lack of success, it's worth considering the most straightforward explanation - loss of momentum. Developing Thief in between the two games was a huge mistake.
DX: MD sold like crap because it was so long after DX: HR
DX: MD sold like crap because it was so long after DX: HR
Yes that's what I said.
DX: MD sold like crap because it was so long after DX: HR
Yes that's what I said.
No you said that "developing thief in between the two games was a huge mistake" implying that was the reason why there was such a long delay between the two. However it was two completely different teams so the development of Thief had nothing to do with the development on Deus Ex Mankind Divided. I have no idea why it took so long to develop DX: MD but I know it had nothing to do with Thief being developed.