Game News The Banner Saga 3 suddenly on Kickstarter

[Sensuki]

Yeah I actually didn't think the strategical management or even the CYOA stuff was that great (I know others really liked the CYOA style though). The combat system and the audiovisuals were the two good bits. Didn't bother to pick up the second game because what I read they didn't really improve encounters.

 

[Lurker King]

King of Dragon Pass cost $500k, and my recollection is the the overwhelming majority of that cost was art.

I think that the game would cost considerably less if the art wasn't colored and so much detailed. The text-adventure bits in PoE are relatively simple, but immersive.

 

[MRY]

Yeah, probably so, though KoDP's unique visual style is definitely part of its appeal for me.

 

[Severian Silk]

Lurker King King of Dragon Pass cost $500k, and my recollection is the the overwhelming majority of that cost was art. Arnold Hendricks has said that to make a proper Darklands today would cost $10M, but that seems improbable to me. Fallen Gods is somewhat similar to Darklands and is probably going to be in the $30k range all said and done, but that has required asking people to work for very little, and of course I pay myself nothing.

You have to pay people extra to produce good content. They won't do it willingly otherwise.

OTOH a developer could use that $10M to hire 100 artists to create textures and other non-interactive crap. There's a lot more street cred in the latter option. Probably better sales too.

 

[MRY]

Lurker King King of Dragon Pass cost $500k, and my recollection is the the overwhelming majority of that cost was art. Arnold Hendricks has said that to make a proper Darklands today would cost $10M, but that seems improbable to me. Fallen Gods is somewhat similar to Darklands and is probably going to be in the $30k range all said and done, but that has required asking people to work for very little, and of course I pay myself nothing.

You have to pay people extra to produce good content. They won't do it willingly otherwise.

I guess it depends what you mean by "good." There are many games made by people who got paid nothing or next to nothing that, I think, have really excellent content. I do think it is generally true that you can't have speed, diligence, creativity, skill, and low cost all at the same time; two or three already very lucky.

 

[Severian Silk]

Lurker King King of Dragon Pass cost $500k, and my recollection is the the overwhelming majority of that cost was art. Arnold Hendricks has said that to make a proper Darklands today would cost $10M, but that seems improbable to me. Fallen Gods is somewhat similar to Darklands and is probably going to be in the $30k range all said and done, but that has required asking people to work for very little, and of course I pay myself nothing.

You have to pay people extra to produce good content. They won't do it willingly otherwise.

I guess it depends what you mean by "good." There are many games made by people who got paid nothing or next to nothing that, I think, have really excellent content. I do think it is generally true that you can't have speed, diligence, creativity, skill, and low cost all at the same time; two or three already very lucky.

See my edit.

 

[Metro]

Art is fantastic. Games themselves are...

 

[Metro]

The first Banner Saga was released on January, 2014. The sold more than 500k on the first game - steam spy says they have more than 700k owners. That’s a lot. Banner Saga 2 was released on April, 2016. That’s what, less than 2 years of development. The engine, the code, all the same. And they sold just 50k on the second game, but that is still some money. So the only explanation for money troubles is that they are giving themselves huge salaries.

It's been bundled a couple of times so they're getting pennies on the dollar for some of those copies.

 

[MicoSelva]

Looks like they are going to easily exceed their funding goal, since they have reached almost 50% after 16 hours or so.

But yeah, I would rather fund Beautiful Desolation. Also, Cayne has been released on Steam (and for free!).

 

[Lurker King]

Every time some talented individual makes an adventure game with great art and concept, that’s a missed opportunity for cRPGs.

 

[Trash]

Loved the first game for its amazing art and interesting setting. The gameplay felt lacking but they largely remedied that with the second game which had much better combat encounters. Pledged generously for the third game.

 

[himmy]

On the one hand, edginess aside, I hate to see any studio on the verge of collapse, especially a small one that at least tried to do something interesting. On the other hand, I really hope this will burn a warning with big, bright letters in the sky for any other fool who thinks it's a good idea to announce a trilogy before your studio has even started proper work on the first game. It's a stupid business model that has led many a young developer to ruin and yet it still raises its ugly head now and then.


Also, this must be the first Kickstarter when no one can complain that "we don't know what we'll get". People know EXACTLY what they will get (more of the same), and that might end up being a bigger problem than uncertainty and empty promises.

 

[BlackGoat]

Game needs blood and beheadings and gibs, like Myth

 

[Mustawd]

Looks like they are going to easily exceed their funding goal, since they have reached almost 50% after 16 hours or so.

Yah, but let's not forget that $200k is fucking peanuts. They're either hoping to go way past that or to get some outside money due to the campaign's performance.

 

[Lurker King]

On the one hand, edginess aside, I hate to see any studio on the verge of collapse, especially a small one that at least tried to do something interesting.

Why? That’s just how business work. If you are not good enough, you close doors and go work again for somebody else. The real problem is that they seem to invest their personal retirement funds, etc. That’s the sad part.

On the other hand, I really hope this will burn a warning with big, bright letters in the sky for any other fool who thinks it's a good idea to announce a trilogy before your studio has even started proper work on the first game. It's a stupid business model that has led many a young developer to ruin and yet it still raises its ugly head now and then.

The problem is not so much the stupid trilogy, but their model. They are using a huge budget and the numbers don’t add up. If they didn’t have this luxurious Bioware fixed mentality with orchestras and voice acting they wouldn’t be burning money. It seems that even if they had made only the first game, they would still be in debt.

 

[Sizzle]

If you are not good enough, you close doors and go work again for somebody else.

Yup, it really is that simple. Take Troika - they just weren't good enough, so they failed. Right.

If they didn’t have this luxurious Bioware fixed mentality with orchestras and voice acting they wouldn’t be burning money.

What VA? What are you talking about? The Banner Saga has only occasional narration and cutscene VA, almost the entire game is just text.

Honestly, if you're going to be a retard, at least be an informed retard, don't just make up shit so you can fake an argument.

 

[MRY]

Every time some talented individual makes an adventure game with great art and concept, that’s a missed opportunity for cRPGs.

Adventure games require a tiny fraction of the content that RPGs do, and the design is totally different. It is pure happenstance if a good adventure game designer can design a good RPG.

Moreover, a good concept for an adventure game is not likely to be a good concept for an RPG. A concept that nicely supports a story about a solitary, mostly pacifist scavenger who goes around cobbling together improbable solutions is not likely to be a concept that nicely supports a story about a band of warriors who go around killing extraordinary numbers of foes while changing their gear every five minutes and growing exponentially more powerful. It's not just that the stories would be different; you need a concept that supports those different stories. I cannot think of any adventure game off the top of my head that would fit well with an RPG, though perhaps a few RPGs (such as Planescape or V:TM:B) could support an adventure game.

There are obviously special cases like QFG or Lord of the Rings, but I still hold to the core premise.

 

[Mustawd]

Every time some talented individual makes an adventure game with great art and concept, that’s a missed opportunity for cRPGs.

Adventure games require a tiny fraction of the content that RPGs do, and the design is totally different. It is pure happenstance if a good adventure game designer can design a good RPG.

Moreover, a good concept for an adventure game is not likely to be a good concept for an RPG. A concept that nicely supports a story about a solitary, mostly pacifist scavenger who goes around cobbling together improbable solutions is not likely to be a concept that nicely supports a story about a band of warriors who go around killing extraordinary numbers of foes while changing their gear every five minutes and growing exponentially more powerful. It's not just that the story are different; you need a concept that supports those different stories. I cannot think of any adventure game off the top of my head that would fit well with an RPG, though perhaps a few RPGs (such as Planescape or V:TM:B) could support an adventure game.

There are obviously special cases like QFG or Lord of the Rings, but I still hold to the core premise.

Well, when you see an adventure game like STASIS, it's hard not to wish the dev had made an isometric RPG instead. Maybe that's what he meant? I dunno. Lurker King is kinda retarded sometimes with his blanket statements.

 

[Mangoose]

Every time some talented individual makes an adventure game with great art and concept, that’s a missed opportunity for cRPGs.

Adventure games require a tiny fraction of the content that RPGs do, and the design is totally different. It is pure happenstance if a good adventure game designer can design a good RPG.

Moreover, a good concept for an adventure game is not likely to be a good concept for an RPG. A concept that nicely supports a story about a solitary, mostly pacifist scavenger who goes around cobbling together improbable solutions is not likely to be a concept that nicely supports a story about a band of warriors who go around killing extraordinary numbers of foes while changing their gear every five minutes and growing exponentially more powerful. It's not just that the stories would be different; you need a concept that supports those different stories. I cannot think of any adventure game off the top of my head that would fit well with an RPG, though perhaps a few RPGs (such as Planescape or V:TM:B) could support an adventure game.

There are obviously special cases like QFG or Lord of the Rings, but I still hold to the core premise.

Don't forget Divinity.

 

[Lurker King]

Yup, it really is that simple. Take Troika - they just weren't good enough, so they failed. Right.

So I'm arguing that one studio has money problems because they don't know how to spend money properly and they have no one else to blame but themselves. Then you come back with another studio that has nothing to do with it, in a completely different context, etc.

 

[Sizzle]

Yup, it really is that simple. Take Troika - they just weren't good enough, so they failed. Right.

So I'm arguing that one studio has money problems because they don't know how to spend money properly and they have no one else to blame but themselves. Then you come back with another studio that has nothing to do with it, in a completely different context, etc.

What I'm arguing is that when you say something like "I know nothing about this studio, or how they spent their money, but I'm betting their financial troubles are because they bought themselves yachts, the silly gits", you come across as someone who's talking out of his ass.

And considering that you probably haven't even played the game (hence - the bullshit VA part you haven't even bothered answering), you obviously know fuck all about it, but still feel the need to spout the same uninformed drivel with which you contaminate every topic you post in.

 

[aratuk]

Oblivion is now saying that Project Eternity Redux happens tomorrow, on top of Banner Saga 3 and Beautiful Desolation. The coffers, they are going depleted

 

[Lurker King]

Adventure games require a tiny fraction of the content that RPGs do, and the design is totally different. It is pure happenstance if a good adventure game designer can design a good RPG.

Let’s make an inventory:

Things that adventure games and cRPGs can have in common: NPCs, dialogue, exploration, items, puzzles, and story.

Things that most adventure games and cRPGs don’t have in common: reactivity, character building, skill/stat checks and combat system.

So you if you can make a decent adventure game you should at the very least be capable to implement NPCs, dialogue, exploration, items, story. That’s 90% of a decent storyfag cRPG. If you add more choices and stat/skill checks, you are good to go. Of course, cRPGs are much more complex and expensive, but the transition between the two genres should be possible, especially if you have a team working with you. That's why people like MRY was hired to write for the Torment sequel, because cRPG developers thought he was a good writer based on his adventure game.

TLDR: Pike should forget about adventure games, work for ITS and make my dream cRPG come true.

 

[Morality Games]

Too expensive? $20 for the game? Frankly I think it's even a bit below the standard Kickstarter fare (I think I paid more for Numenera, Pillars etc)

Those are big 70 hours games, though.

 

[Lurker King]

What I'm arguing is that when you say something like "I know nothing about this studio, or how they spent their money, but I'm betting their financial troubles are because they bought themselves yachts, the silly gits", you come across as someone who's talking out of his ass.

Of course I am. The fact that they sold more than 700 thousand copies but still have money problems is irrelevant. The fact that they paid for a fucking orchestra to make the soundtrack, is irrelevant. The fact that the game is fully voice acted, is irrelevant. The fact that basically the whole fucking game relies pretty fucking heavily on top notch art and have ridiculous detailed animations, is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant or mean something is gratuitous sentimentalism directed to an arbitrary selected class: medium studio developers. That’s what is believable, RIGHT?