Symphony of War: The Nephilim Saga - Ogre Battle Spiritual Successor Tactical RPG

[Dhaze]

Thank you, mister barbarian sir, that's very nice of you to say.

Between this, the wonderful remaster of Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song, and the very promising Kynseed, the numeric gods of video games have been good to me as of late. Soon I'll sit on Santa's lap, and ask him if he would be so kind has to crawl into development hell where Eitr is racked, to promptly yank it out of there for a surprise Christmas release; and with that 2022 would have been a good year, a good year indeed.

 

[spekkio]

Of course the game is not flawless but I can't think of an actual deep fault running through the foundations, much less a series of faults. There's nothing needs be fixed, only tweaked ever so slightly. Everything that needs to be there is there, and is of good quality to boot.

I remember this being a norm like 10-20 years ago (maybe it's the rose-tinted glasses syndrome and everything, but I think not). And currently this is fucking rare. With most current games, big or indie, I'm almost always in the "how the fuck could they design this shit like this???" mode.

Right now I love how I can send Stefan, Narima, and Raskuja to haunt marshes or woods or towns; meanwhile I hold a chokepoint with stone-tough Sentinels backed by Gunners; and before the chokepoint filled itself up I sent Barnabas and another cavalry unit beyond enemy lines, to charge bodily into spearless stragglers. It's actual tactics, and it's great fun.

BRO, how could you call this tactics? Tactical games are all about learning game's exploits for 100 hours, min-maxing units, grinding for another 100 hours and then killing everything on map with a single unit, doing 9999 damage.

/ironing

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Tactical games are all about learning game's exploits for 100 hours, min-maxing units, grinding for another 100 hours and then killing everything on map with a single unit, doing 9999 damage.

Seriously? My collection of tactics is just:
Hit hard.
Run towards target and hit hard.

 

[Dhaze]

Of course the game is not flawless but I can't think of an actual deep fault running through the foundations, much less a series of faults. There's nothing needs be fixed, only tweaked ever so slightly. Everything that needs to be there is there, and is of good quality to boot.

I remember this being a norm like 10-20 years ago (maybe it's the rose-tinted glasses syndrome and everything, but I think not). And currently this is fucking rare. With most current games, big or indie, I'm almost always in the "how the fuck could they design this shit like this???" mode.

It's definitely not rose-tinted glasses. Blame lower industry standards, or a new younger generation of players who doesn't know better, or the pervasiveness of what I call the 'constant patching' culture, or I don't know what else, but in fact games used to come out in a really good state. Certainly not bug-free in the least, but not bug-gnawed as most games released today are.

Console titles especially needed to be impeccable. I still remember being unable to complete a sidequest due to a bug in Xenosaga Episode 2: Jenseits von Gut und Böse, and how extraordinarily rare it was for a bug like that to worm its way into a release.

Tactical games are all about learning game's exploits for 100 hours, min-maxing units, grinding for another 100 hours and then killing everything on map with a single unit, doing 9999 damage.

Seriously? My collection of tactics is just:
Hit hard.
Run towards target and hit hard.

To paraphrase Roger de Bussy-Rabutin: "Dieu est d'ordinaire pour les gros gourdins contre les petits."

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Small cudgels are a lousy club to be in.

 

[Dhaze]

Quality pun. I hope you stick to this kind of humour. And have you ever though about opening a barbarian-themed strip joint? You could simply call it 'Blackjack and Hookers'; perhaps even open it in Baton Rouge.

 

[Kalarion]

Of course the game is not flawless but I can't think of an actual deep fault running through the foundations, much less a series of faults. There's nothing needs be fixed, only tweaked ever so slightly. Everything that needs to be there is there, and is of good quality to boot.

I remember this being a norm like 10-20 years ago (maybe it's the rose-tinted glasses syndrome and everything, but I think not). And currently this is fucking rare. With most current games, big or indie, I'm almost always in the "how the fuck could they design this shit like this???" mode.

Right now I love how I can send Stefan, Narima, and Raskuja to haunt marshes or woods or towns; meanwhile I hold a chokepoint with stone-tough Sentinels backed by Gunners; and before the chokepoint filled itself up I sent Barnabas and another cavalry unit beyond enemy lines, to charge bodily into spearless stragglers. It's actual tactics, and it's great fun.

BRO, how could you call this tactics? Tactical games are all about learning game's exploits for 100 hours, min-maxing units, grinding for another 100 hours and then killing everything on map with a single unit, doing 9999 damage.

/ironing

I haven't played the game since July, so before I fire back at you and Dhaze: have there been major gameplay/balance changes that I'm not aware of in the last 5 months?

 

[Dhaze]

You were right, Spekkio, it is indeed possible to switch Diana back to her Exemplar sprite. War hammer enthusiasts rejoice!

Also, though it is not listed as a learneable Leader trait, Shock And Awe can evidently be learned:

A squad of Dragoons dropped it upon defeat during chapter 26. Not sure if it's a bug or not, but in any case I would say it's a terribly rare, lucky find; so far I've found every skill numerous times save for this one.

Interestingly enough, even with artifacts like Fang Of Duros (-500 Magic) or Saint Teresa's Tiara (Magic set to 0), my Valkyries still heal worthwhile amounts. And the traits that give Health, Strength, or Skill based on Magic remain in full effect. But Arcane Barrier ceases to work, so I'm unsure how the whole thing might be coded. All in all Valkyries can get pretty bonkers with zero grinding required, just a bit of tinkering.

And a fun idea with Beatrix. Give her the artifact Giant's Tresher (+25% damage against bigger squads), Soha's Blood Shard (gain HP from kills; take damage equal to 10% HP per phase), and Sin Credo (leader gets an extra turn), then teach her the trait Vengeance (+25% damage for each disabled unit in the squad), and finally put her into a squad of 8 fragile, low-health rookies who get wiped during the first phase. If my limited testing with this setup can be trusted, she can solo anything.

But now I'm almost done with my second playthrough, and I'm considering how to approach a third one, how to make it a bit more challenging without establishing exaggeratedly drastic restrictions.

– Don't field more than 6 squads in any given chapter, or perhaps 8.
– Only unique characters can benefit from a Proof Of Merit; this might or might not include unique mercenaries.
– No resurrections; not via Temples, nor via the main character's abilities, and if an unkillable story unit is downed you need to retire it permanently.
– No healing while in combat. Meaning that Priestesses, Templars, Hospitallers, and Valkyries have to be in their own seperate squad(s), to heal other squads out of combat.

The 'no healing while in combat' idea in particular has me quite enthused with what it entails.

Another possibilty is to restrict the squads you can field to those who can't be disbanded, i.e. those lead by the main character, Stefan, Diana, Beatrix, and Lysander—but that would probably be an absolute bitch at various points.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Dhaze if you don't work in advertising, you should start. Just like you somehow made Mechajammer sound worth playing, you're making this thing sound worth a revisit, except I already know that despite these apparently great systems and synergies, the game isn't anywhere near difficult enough to be worth this level of thought or optimization which is sad.

Hopefully they'll either release a new campaign that's harder or more difficulty options which would make it worth checking out with your level of enthusiasm.

 

[Dhaze]

Dhaze if you don't work in advertising, you should start. Just like you somehow made Mechajammer sound worth playing [...]

Funnily enough, not long ago a friend told me something to that effect. "Dhaze [he actually does call me Dhaze], if I ever make a video game, I'm hiring you as my PR guy and I want you on Steam and Reddit 24/7." Says I can make a lot of things sound worth trying, provided I'm enthusiastic enough about them.

Back in July I spent about half an hour ranting to him about Mechajammer, and by the time I was finished he actually wanted to buy it, the absolute numskull.

[...] except I already know that despite these apparently great systems and synergies, the game isn't anywhere near difficult enough to be worth this level of thought or optimization which is sad.

Admittedly, you're right. I think a sizeable chunk of the playerbase finds Symphony Of War too easy to warrant much thought about trying all it can offer. For most games in the genre, optimisation will inch the difficulty closer and closer to 0; whereas in this here game, even a modicum of optimisation will sink the difficulty below 0. So if the challenge isn't there natively, it takes liking the game a whole lot in order to replay it, to experiment with it.

Still, for various reasons I commend the devs' manifest intention to create a game with this approach to difficulty—or lack thereof. I read a few of their responses to various comments made by players, and I've a feeling they managed to make exactly the game they wanted, knowing quite precisely how to get there. I appreciate that, and respect it immensely.

But going against the grain like that does put their game in a weird position, where longtime 'hardcore' (so to speak, neither positively nor derogatively) fans of the genre don't necessarily find what they want or at least what they expect. And I certainly can't blame or fault players who find themselves thusly disappointed.

Hopefully they'll either release a new campaign that's harder or more difficulty options which would make it worth checking out with your level of enthusiasm.

Earlier I saw that the following is planned by the devs:

– New Game Mode: Post game extra difficult final boss fight and/or some form of NG+
– Expanded difficulty settings
– New, highest difficulty, "Lunatic", with hardest possible options locked in, crueler AI and enforced Ironman save rules
– Endurance Trial
– Replayable past missions
– Early in 2023 (we hope) we will be launching a major content pack for Symphony of War, including new chapters added to the main story, new artifacts, traits, classes, characters, game modes, and more!

Fingers crossed, and all that. Hopefully I'll have the time to play it.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Says I can make a lot of things sound worth trying, provided I'm enthusiastic enough about them.

Back in July I spent about half an hour ranting to him about Mechajammer, and by the time I was finished he actually wanted to buy it, the absolute numskull.

Not his fault you can really sell the good stuff in a game, no matter how little good stuff is in said game.

 

[Dhaze]

Says I can make a lot of things sound worth trying, provided I'm enthusiastic enough about them.

Back in July I spent about half an hour ranting to him about Mechajammer, and by the time I was finished he actually wanted to buy it, the absolute numskull.

Not his fault you can really sell the good stuff in a game, no matter how little good stuff is in said game.

I guess, but if it's really true I can sell a game like that, then I might have to actually consider a career change or at least a side hustle.

On a completely unrelated note, I'm playing Kynseed a bit and in it read a joke made me think of you!

What do you call a mace between two slices of bread? A club sandwich.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Stick around fella.

 

[Demo.Graph]

Tactical games are all about learning game's exploits for 100 hours, min-maxing units, grinding for another 100 hours and then killing everything on map with a single unit, doing 9999 damage.

Seriously? My collection of tactics is just:
Hit hard.
Run towards target and hit hard.

"Hit first, hit hard, keep on hitting"?

You're doxxed, matey.

 

[karoliner]

The DLC is in July if everything goes well.

Symphony of War 1.05 is Live!
Quality of life and gameplay

Please follow our Twitch channel for live dev streams:
https://www.twitch.tv/dancingdragongames
Please join our Discord channel:
https://discord.gg/EJ4AFKFmrs

Hello everyone!

As we continue to work on the Legends DLC expansion content, we have decided to release a slew of Quality of Life, graphics, and gameplay changes and bug fixes in the interim! Thank you again for everyone who has followed SoW's progression and we are excited to release new content for you soon!

---

Overview
-New, high-quality portraits are available for all story characters
-Many story characters can now be disbanded from their default squads after Chapter 6 - you are now a lot more freed up in regards to building them into other squads if you prefer
-Font spacing and readability fixes
-Other minor QoL/fixes

Portraits
-New portraits are default enabled for all saves
-A toggle has been added to the options menu to use “classic” portrait style

Text/Fonts
-Minor translation fixes
-Korean Hangul input should now properly include the “final” consonant when constructing a composite character
-Adjusted scaling, fixed spacing widths for all Asian languages and updated the font(s) to use a more clearly readable variant

Localization
-The Korean translation has been updated - Credit: Discord user Ludrik

Gameplay
-Many story characters that were previously locked as leaders until late game have been unlocked after chapter 6
-Enemy 2+ range squads should no longer have a "blind spot" where they fail to acquire a target despite one being in range after moving
-Starting and growth of AGI for the Militia class has been increased
-Light Cavalry charge attacks are now properly aligned with the Light melee volley, rather than in the same volley as heavy cavalry charge
-Spear wielding infantry troops have been given some damage resistance to melee cavalry attacks
-Required deployments will still be placed in their own squad and locked as leaders for any missions they are *required* in
-Rebalanced “pity” units given in certain chapters to fill out squads. Tier 2 units are now included for a bit more immediate benefit, but their overall quality is lower
-Chapters 13 and 29, which have been affectionately deemed "playable cutscenes", can now be skipped as such (you will be accelerated to victory and given Faction XP as if you completed the mission normally on this turn where appropriate)

UX/UI
-You can now select what sprite your squad is represented as on the tactical map using the "Map Sprite" option in Squad Operations
-You can now change the sprite that displays on tactical maps to be something other than the leader's class
-Added a new leader icon indicator for leaders that cannot currently have their squads be disbanded
-You can now cycle-sort reserve units by various stats. (Xbox layout - Y button. Keyboard: G button. Mouse - Click Sort on the reserves menu)
-Moved the equipped indicator to under the item so both can be visible at the same time
-You can now new + previous unit in unit status with arrow keys/controller L+R when selecting a unit in Squad View
-All gauges will now round up a pixel rather than down a pixel when displaying (HP bars will always show 1 pixel if the character is not incapacitated)
-Improved the accuracy of the HP gauge in battle HUD (the gauge no longer draws under opaque parts of the frame, which was hiding the first and last few pixels)
-Bronze Tokens can now only be "bought" in Exchange in multiples of 2 like Iron (since increments of 1 never create a valid exchange anyways)

Minor issues and bug fixes
-Using “Skip All” after Chapter 30 no longer softlocks
-Donar's Treatise of War now works as described
-Ace of Spades now works as described
-Fixed squads entering the map after it has started having the wrong movement preview associated until they move/are interacted with
-Failure state for the challenge mission in Chapter 20D now functions properly
-Cavalry second move will no longer glitch when moving into a trigger region that forces end turn

---

Legends DLC:
July 2023 (we hope) we will be launching a major content pack for Symphony of War, including new chapters added to the main story, new artifacts, traits, classes, characters, game modes, and more!

Please follow our Twitch channel for live dev streams:
https://www.twitch.tv/dancingdragongames
Please join our Discord channel:
https://discord.gg/EJ4AFKFmrs
Thank you for your interest, support, and feedback as we continue to make Symphony of War all it deserves to be!

Sincerely,

Phil

 

[karoliner]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2432430/Symphony_of_War_The_Nephilim_Saga__Legends/

 

[Dhaze]

Genoese crossbowman!

 

[Maxie]

beaten the game on Captain. p good I like that it's rather terse presentation-wise and most of the time you actually engage in combat rather than walk around some dumbass hub doing busywork. perhaps non-human enemies could use more variation. using standard classes even in the final duel with zanatos was kinda lame. can't say i paid too much attention to the writing, perhaps some convos were too in your face or kinda brandon sanderson-type cringe. tech trees were plenty of fun but tying them to reputation is a dubious choice. plenty of min-maxing potential for all the wackos out there, with minimal math i've managed to make an army of 150+ units, probably three merc squads were actually plot character-tier, the rest were mostly for padding/objectives.

 

[Sarathiour]

The game is definitely not very hard, and the addition of extra challenges in the DLC will probably be welcomed. I'm on chapter 25+ on warlord, and between all the heal and resurrections, I probably lost less than five none trash unit, and it did not prevent me from getting S rank on every mission so far. I except the rest of the game to be even easier, the Nephilim power you get tipped even more an already unbalanced scale, the opposite faction superior number aren't enough to keep on with the bullshit I'm putting them trough, and I did not even min-max.
If you start the game knowing already all the mechanism, you could probably get ten or fifteen min-maxed squad.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

DLC is out.

 

[Jermu]

is game still too easy? made me skip this before because of that.

 

[Sarathiour]

There is allegedly a few more difficulty mode, but its obviously a bit soon to tell.
The best way to ramp up difficulty is probably self-imposed challenge, the base game obviously offer too much option and therefore is very lenient. You're also kinda limited in how much you can ramp things up because there is only a few hard counter to unit, for example most knight can charge spearmen and equivlanet pretty safely, they're just not as effective against them.

 

[Vyadhis]

I love Matsuno games like Tactics Ogre and FFT, love Fire Emblem pre-3ds era...so will I enjoy this? How's it rate compared to Tactics Ogre or Fire Emblem 4?

 

[Sarathiour]

Honestly, read the whole thread.

Lot of decent concept for TC, but the games is clearly on the easy side. If the whole dating sim element of the nu-emblem is one of the things that irks you, it's barely present here.

 

[Pocgels]

I love Matsuno games like Tactics Ogre and FFT, love Fire Emblem pre-3ds era...so will I enjoy this? How's it rate compared to Tactics Ogre or Fire Emblem 4?

You'll probably like it. The sense of scale is a lot more similar to those older games than the new fire emblems.

I believe in the original vision of the game, they imagined the permadeath of your generic units to stop the player from getting too powerful and thus making the game too easy, but since they let you resurrect and a lot of people turned off permadeath anyways, that balance aspect basically fell on its face.