Decline Sword Coast Legends - RIP n-Space!

[Volourn]

"In theory, the key to Sword Coast Legends is its dungeon master mode, in which one player can do as much as design an area filled with quests and dungeons from scratch, or as little as teleport additional monsters in on the fly while the others stomp through pre-made challenges. Where Neverwinter Nights, SCL’s great inspiration, came with a fully-fledged and exceedingly complicated modding toolset, this game has a relatively easy, in-game UI into which you can pretty much just plop whatever you like. I was able to knock together a rudimentary dungeon with a couple of functional quests and a boss in around 20 minutes; given a couple of hours I could have gone to town on purple prose and consciously hardcore challenges. It’s hard to argue with DM mode’s ease."

\aka It's dumbed down NWN DM Client/mod creator. FUCK OFF.



"The only thing this ever could have really been is a 4e game. To be 5e, development should have started this year, when most of the books and rules were set. Having it start when it did, they couldn't have laid the foundationary rules with anything solid, if they went 5e."

\NWN was worked on prior to 3E release I believe. Hell, it was being worked on prior to BG1 release. And, while it isn't exactly like pnp at least you can tell it is 3E. heck, even pathetic POR2 was obviously 3E despite its many limits. This game didn't even try to be D&D in spite of the fukkin' logo.

In a way I'm glad it's on Steam since 'm not as tempted to throw away $50 on this shit.

 

[Telengard]

Re: The refunds. Steam obviously has refunds but those who preordered from the SCL site can't get refunds. At one stage Dan/CEO had his meltdown and offered refunds anyway to those who pm'd him but it's apparently no longer possible to send him pms on that site and people are referred to the standard email address where they are turned down. There is now a massive refund thread and I think some of the most troublesome posters were given refunds anyway, but a few people (who hadn't played at all post release) have now moved on to credit card chargebacks.

Hilarious. I've always wanted this vein of hype-based marketing manipulation to die. But that one of it's first knocks is a body blow like this is something to see.

 

[Sothpaw]

I can't tell if some people asking if it's a Diablo clone are actually serious or if shitty dumbed down games are referred to as Diablo clones.

 

[Bubbles]

The best point of comparison for the single player is a linear low budget DA:O with dumbed down mechanics and plenty of cut corners.

 

[pippin]

So, Dragon Age 2?

 

[Bubbles]

Yes, but isometric and with less ambition.

 

[Frozen]

Played through tutorial only.
Words come to mind: cheap, boring, generic, nostalgia cash grab.
Visually its like NWN really not much better like something from 2004 at best and it wouldn't matter if art design isn't really poor.
VA is terrible my character has 3 lines consist of 1 word and he repeats it every time I click to move...its like RTS problem from 10-15 years.
Camera control is wacky you can zoom but not much point into it because it looks like Fable 1.
This should be some Facebook or flash mini game or FTP mmo for fat housewife's not even dumbed down NWN clone pretending to be H&S.
To me it has a vibe of Dungeon Siege 3 or D&D Daggerdale so a game i couldn't go for more after tutorial because its so fucking boring.
Could be wrong because its a small sample but I doubt i care to play more and find out.

 

[DavidBVal]

The only thing this ever could have really been is a 4e game. To be 5e, development should have started this year, when most of the books and rules were set. Having it start when it did, they couldn't have laid the foundationary rules with anything solid, if they went 5e.

NWN was released two years after 3.0 came out. 5th edition public playtesting started in May 2012, and the rules were pretty much closed by September 2013, over two years ago.

Plus, unless things have changed in the last 5 years, d&d nerds number about 250,000. One can beat that number easy with even a shitty diablows clone.

NWN sales were in the millions of copies (I think I read both NWNs combined to over 3 million) Your estimation sounds low, but even if right, not only DnD nerds play DnD games, it's not like 250K is the ceiling of how many people will play your game.

They should have targeted at least the people that bought NWN2, and for that, they needed to build a game with a correct implementation of DnD, and real creation/modding/DMing tools.

Instead they do this... thing, that will bring no sinergies with the PnP game, will push away from DnD hardcore players once more, and will sell a small fraction of what NWN2 sold. Not to mention that they created no real engine of their own. The previous engines were reused in new games, sometimes meaning increased profits.

Player base size, lack of time to implement 5E, etc can never explain this complete blunder that makes absolutely no sense from WotC perspective.

 

[sstacks]

Because. You. Just. Can't. Get. Enough:

This episode: We basically rampage through the mercenary caves (but wait, if you order now we'll include goblins!) and catch up with the angry halfling. It ain't pretty.



If you are one of those chewing your own lips off in paroxysms of anger over SCL, you might instead check out
the Serpent in the Staglands playlist?

 

[Telengard]

NWN was released two years after 3.0 came out. 5th edition public playtesting started in May 2012, and the rules were pretty much closed by September 2013, over two years ago.

NWN wasn't a party-based game, so the rules for d&d matter much less to it. To build party-based encounters, you need a solid foundation. You need more than playtesting bits and pieces to see what works, you need a functioning game ready to go. If you don't have that, then at any time, you may have to rip out whole parts of your work to fit the new design of the edition as it develops. Unless you design your game such that the real rules don't matter, and will only have the appearance of mattering.

Concurrent development is popular, such as with movie tie-ins, and d&d edition tie-ins, etc, because it creates synergy. But it also creates trash.

NWN sales were in the millions of copies (I think I read both NWNs combined to over 3 million) Your estimation sounds low, but even if right, not only DnD nerds play DnD games, it's not like 250K is the ceiling of how many people will play your game.

They should have targeted at least the people that bought NWN2, and for that, they needed to build a game with a correct implementation of DnD, and real creation/modding/DMing tools.

Instead they do this... thing, that will bring no sinergies with the PnP game, will push away from DnD hardcore players once more, and will sell a small fraction of what NWN2 sold. Not to mention that they created no real engine of their own. The previous engines were reused in new games, sometimes meaning increased profits.

Player base size, lack of time to implement 5E, etc can never explain this complete blunder that makes absolutely no sense from WotC perspective.

Your traditional crpg sells 50,000 - 500,000, with only a few stand-outs going out either end (most of them by Bioware). So, even by current Steamspy numbers, SCL's already in traditional RPG sales territory, and the numbers aren't even fully updated yet. Even with a d&d logo slapped on, sales of a traditional crpg only rise to 250,000 expected, 500,000 top range. SCL'll match that easy, since they're making a console game. Console sales will slip them over into that territory no matter what PC sales do. Because, when it comes down to it, the only thing the Kickstarters have proved is the sales numbers that the industry stated all along about crpgs are correct.

In contrast, Bioware's sales baseline is 2 million. And as these are ex-Bioware devs making yet another DAO clone, their sales plan is all-but guaranteed to have been to carve off a fraction of that audience. Even if they only manage 10%, they'll beat the sales of most every traditional crpg ever made.

 

[Delterius]

So it's between you, Delterius and Bubbles

Incidentally, my day is gloriously free so who knows? This could be the beginning of the best scl review ever written.

wink wink nudge nudge

 

[Hobo Elf]

Incidentally, my day is gloriously free so who knows? This could be the beginning of the best scl review ever written.

wink wink nudge nudge

I'm unemployed. You can't beat that.

 

[Morblot]

Roll for it with a die. It's the only way!

 

[Delterius]

I'm unemployed. You can't beat that.

And I am a college student.

 

[Hobo Elf]

And I am a college student.

That's unfortunate for you.

 

[Delterius]

My stash of marijuana can multiply my effective playtime by ten.

 

[Hobo Elf]

My stash of marijuana can multiply my effective playtime by ten.

It'll also degenerate your writing capabilities. Weed humor is the worst.

 

[Delterius]

That explains the dragon age review.

 

[DavidBVal]

NWN wasn't a party-based game, so the rules for d&d matter much less to it.

But they implemented the rules anyways, so hardly a relevant point. NWN, criticism aside, it is a decent implementation of most of the ruleset, released in a couple years after the 3.0ed, and they even had time to develop in that timeframe the Aurora engine, which was later used to produce lots of games, up to The Witcher many years later.

Concurrent development is popular, such as with movie tie-ins, and d&d edition tie-ins, etc, because it creates synergy. But it also creates trash.

Would you say NWN and 3.0 was concurrent development?

I see your point. Yes, I agree October 2015 is a bit early for a 5th ed game done right, but it would have been doable, as was in the past, if the project had been done with the right priorities in mind. And as you say yourself, the important release is consoles, and that won't happen until 2016, so they could have simply released then.

 

[ArchAngel]

Even if it was based on 4e they still failed. The game is nothing like 4e either.

 

[Shin]

http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/10/20/review-sword-coast-legends/172818/

The characters bring to life Sword Coast Legend, including the player themselves. This is an RPG with a bevvy of choices for the player to make. Some of them are obvious ones, in terms of what kind of character players want to assume, while many are morally ambigous and have pretty lasting effects. This type of gameplay keeps the player, not just engaged in the plot, but also feeling truly connected to their character and the compatriots in tow. Much of this is thanks to a solid writing team. While the lore may not be as rich as Pillars of Eternity for the average player who doesn’t know much about Dungeons & Dragons, there is still a good amount of history crammed into the game–though it does assume folks know the D&D Forgotten Realms world. So for those that don’t know it, the world-building may seem adequate but never deeper than that. So, being a fan of the franchise will add to the experience, hands down.

SCS is basically every D&D fan's wet dream!

The dialogue, for instance, has numerous reply options that the player can use to further deduce information from NPCs. Being able to successfully intimidate someone due to our decision to poor attribute points into the right category felt satisfying. Knowing that, had certain scores of ours not been leveled up appropriately we wouldn’t have been able to get information from the NPC in said manner, was a neat and gratifying feeling. In the end, when there is the ability to choose one’s actions and reactions based off of certain attribute points, it’s a wholly fun experience, and one that N-Space and Digital Extremes has gotten perfectly right when it comes to making Legends feel like something of a tabletop simulator.

Holy shit! AoD killer confirmed!

 

[Hobo Elf]

Either that's a joke review or the guy playing SCL is playing an RPG for the first time in his entire life. Or they're just plain retarded.

 

[Black]

Or it's a "sponsored" review.

 

[ArchAngel]

Either that's a joke review or the guy playing SCL is playing an RPG for the first time in his entire life. Or they're just plain retarded.

That is the same site owned by a guy that once came to rpgwatch because they also linked him and when asked about if he played Vampire Bloodlines he admitted he never heard about the game...

Also even RPGWatch told him to go away after you look at site and see they review phones games.... nothing is less hardcore than phone games.

 

[Delterius]

That is the same site owned by a guy that once came to rpgwatch because they also linked him and when asked about if he played Vampire Bloodlines he admitted he never heard about the game...

That's quite interesting. Do you know the guy's username? I'd like to see this watchshaming myself.