Squad-Level Tactical Games - Ideas/Criticisms

[Burning Bridges]

What about in a far future sci-fi universe? More dark, WH40K type - hive city type environments. Is that at all enticing? What would you caution or encourage about that particular setting?

I would absolutely love to see a turn based science fiction game.

In particular retro future would get me extremely excited. The kind of fictional universe of the 50s/60s where Venus is still a steamy jungle planet with dangerous creatures, and technology goes a different, simpler, more doable path.

But mainstream science fiction as we know if from todays TV/cinema is a huge boner breaker for me.

 

[Father Walker]

Oh yeah, tactical-pulp-sci-fi game would be awesome.

 

[Burning Bridges]

You'll find them and many others by doing google image search for retro + future.

for example here: http://izismile.com/2010/02/25/retro_visions_of_the_future_120_pics.html

 

[PorkaMorka]

Dude, just quit it. Your shtick wasn't funny the day you started, it hasn't become any funnier. Get some lube for that hurt butt of yours or confine yourself into GD.

I was hoping Running Fox would come back and defend himself but his criticisms of JA2 and X-Com are valid.

Most games have fundamentally shitty AI, but some games compensate for it better than others.

Take Steel Panthers for an example. You may have noticed that the AI performs rather poorly in generated campaigns, because the AI deployment is rather haphazard.

When you just line up two forces and let them fight, the side controlled by the AI is at a big disadvantage, especially when turn limits are generous enough to allow the player to manipulate the AI at his leisure.

But a carefully designed, hand built scenario can take a large number of responsibilities off of the AI and place them on the scenario designer. Rather than a haphazard random deployment, each AI unit is hand placed by a human in the best possible spot. The scenario designer knows the limitations of the AI, so he can take these into account when designing the map and give each unit quite limited responsibilities that he knows the AI can handle.

You're not really fighting the AI anymore at this point, you're unraveling a puzzle built by a human.

Panzer General games represent a very successful implementation of the puzzle map idea. The strict time limits and limitations on healing your units along with the carefully hand built scenarios place the focus squarely on tactics; the art of deploying and maneuvering your forces. Especially with modded e-files that reduce the ability to trivialize the game through exploiting poor balance in the headquarters screen.

On the other hand, X-Com and JA2 don't really give the AI anywhere near this level of support. AI deployment isn't totally random, but these games are much closer to the "line up two forces and make them fight" model, not the puzzle map model. As a result the AI plays has a lot of responsibilities to handle. Since the AI is dumb, it handles these responsibilities very poorly. You'll need to avoid a huge list of exploits to get a satisfying game.

Closer to software toys indeed. (They're still games though.)

 

[Burning Bridges]

Bollocks

Hand placing enemies would make JA2 more challenging but it's greatest strength - replayability - would go to hell.

You should present your idea to the 1.13 douchebags, they may actually like it.

 

[Raghar]

Take Steel Panthers for an example. You may have noticed that the AI performs rather poorly in generated campaigns, because the AI deployment is rather haphazard.

When you just line up two forces and let them fight, the side controlled by the AI is at a big disadvantage, especially when turn limits are generous enough to allow the player to manipulate the AI at his leisure.

Analyzing terrain is trivial. You identify axis of threat and place stuff into preferred positions. The trouble is when you place stuff into preferred positions your opponent would simply do an artillery barrage into suspicious locations and you are screwed by an accidental artillery hit.

Considering that game actually tries to use units from a period when tactic was drastically different at the end when compared with beginning, AI for that game is somehow of a problem, the placement is trivial but can run into problems caused by too high discretization of space, and it requires detailed knowledge of military stuff. Of course detailed knowledge is not taught

 

[Burning Bridges]

Now what has this thread come to?

The OP got a lot of information for free and in return should give us a link to the project.

 

[Riel]

"Incubation, an overlooked but charming turn based game. It features character progression and diverse level variety."

Couldn't agree more, Incubation is for me the best squad tactical based game ever. Simple but flexible sytem!! Allows for quick and interesting gameplay.

Look at Slay (not squad based): rules couldn't be simpler but that game is fun (http://www.windowsgames.co.uk/slay.html)

So if I have to advise something is keep it simple and flexible, do not make thee rules for three different situation if one çgood rule can work for them all.