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SpellForce 3 Reforced + Soul Harvest & Fallen God standalone expansions

Lamiosa

Educated
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
90
So, Soul Harvest is one of the best written games ever, huh. I finished it yesterday night and I'm actually blown away by how the ending recontextualized everything and in such a profound way too, without it being condescending and just spelling everything out. Hear me out. Spoilers for Soul Harvest, I guess.

The game tricks you into thinking the whole plot is about stopping this entity from the end of the base game and while the characters certainly think this is what is happening, I'd argue the entity didn't lie and it really is unstoppable in the grand scheme of things (the only thing it didn't lie about). It bugged me to no end that everyone kept calling it a god, especially because there already are gods in this universe and they are nothing like it, but the more I played the more I suspected they were correct and the ending confirmed it for me.

It is a god, quite a powerful one at that, and that god's name is trauma. And it does devour worlds - your world.

Shaiogded lies about it being brought forth by greed, avarice, malice, pride and so on and I know this because none of his agents operate out of malice or greed. What all of them ultimately want is for the pain to stop, be it Isgrimm, Raith, the masked woman, Kiran or whoever else. The others call them corrupted because they can't understand the profound emotional pain they are going through, just like people irl don't understand it or how people in the past thought depression and other maladies of the soul are caused by evil spirits. Shaiogded lies to your face it's caused by your failings because trauma has the unfortunate tendency to make you think it's your fault. Of course it's pride, maybe if you weren't so prideful you would've saved your family from the disease that killed them. Of course it's selfishness, maybe if you hadn't gone out to adventure and instead stayed to help your community it wouldn't have caused a tyrant's rise to power. Of course it's inaction/cowardice, maybe if you had helped the rebels in that final battle, instead of staying home, your husband would still be alive. Maybe if I wasn't so egoistic, if I had told him I loved him more or didn't pressure him so much, he wouldn't have killed himself.

Shaiogded requires of you to collect souls, to torture and murder mages, to use ancient, barely understood magic to orchestrate a tyrant's atrocities, to betray your friends and allies and ultimately the entire world. You want the pain to stop, don't you? You would do anything to stop it or even reverse it if you had the chance.

Very good vidya gaem and one of the best representations of a god in fiction as a whole, props to the devs.
Interesting. Did Nicolas Lietzau work on this? Enderal Forgotten Stories was awesome, I always thought it was a shame he started working on spellforce, as I think it was somewhat a waste of his talent. But maybe I should try it.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
The red meadow was a nightmare mission. In a good (?) way. I had to restart it 3 times to figure out a good strategy. I don't like the fact all ranged enemies insta-target your heroes and bring them down within seconds. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have limited resurrections. They should've gotten rid of them in RTS missions and only use them in maps where you can't build an army.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
The game started taking forever to load, even getting to the main menu when starting the game takes way too long. The loading screens get stuck at 87% and it takes 5+ minutes to load if it loads at all. Soooo, yeah, if I don't find a way to fix it without reinstalling the whole game I'm going to drop it for now unfortunately.
 

ferratilis

Magister
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
2,315
The game started taking forever to load, even getting to the main menu when starting the game takes way too long. The loading screens get stuck at 87% and it takes 5+ minutes to load if it loads at all. Soooo, yeah, if I don't find a way to fix it without reinstalling the whole game I'm going to drop it for now unfortunately.
Try to set asset caching to 'always'
sRuVzct.png


Or just try verifying your files through Steam, that often helps.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
The game started taking forever to load, even getting to the main menu when starting the game takes way too long. The loading screens get stuck at 87% and it takes 5+ minutes to load if it loads at all. Soooo, yeah, if I don't find a way to fix it without reinstalling the whole game I'm going to drop it for now unfortunately.
Or just try verifying your files through Steam, that often helps.
This seems to have fixed it. I have the game on GOG, but Galaxy has the same function. I have to test it more though.
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
The red meadow was a nightmare mission. In a good (?) way. I had to restart it 3 times to figure out a good strategy. I don't like the fact all ranged enemies insta-target your heroes and bring them down within seconds.

My favorite mission of the game, by far. The targeting is annoying, but you can turn it on its head; it's possible to camp the waves' spawn points and kill them on spawn, relying mostly on the trolls that do cleave damage set up in a kill box; the overlapping AoEs can one-shot waves. It's not quite autopilot, but you can farm Extremely Red Meadow waves indefinitely at low risk, if you're so inclined.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, you can cheese it once you know what you are doing, but it was a pretty good mission for a first playthrough. I'm almost finished with Fallen God and am going to post my more in-depth thoughts later.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
So, I just completed Fallen God and the ending didn't surprise me too much, but I'll get to that. I won't be talking a lot about the gameplay because it's literally the same as the other two and the RTS gameplay still isn't the best. Spoilers for the entirety of Fallen God.

Nicolas Lietzau knows what he is doing and he's probably one of the best writers in the industry atm. He knows how to tell a fantasy story that isn't just pure nonsense and one made up scenario after the next. I finished Soul Harvest and Fallen God not because the game is super good but because I wanted to know what happens next in the story and because I liked spending time with the characters and was invested in their struggles. That goes double for Fallen God. If Soul Harvest was about trauma, Fallen God is about oppression and prejudice and what one must do and is willing to do to free oneself of them. The story reminded me a bit of Gideon from the Bible. The Fial Darg was used very well because you know the trolls are falling into a trap by resurrecting it if you are a fan of the series and have seen what the Fial Darg are capable of and are. You just know something bad is going to happen and want to scream at the monitor for them to not do it. I initially thought this Fial Darg is the one from Breath of Winter, seeing as how BoW takes place in Urgath as well, but it isn't. They tried to keep the stranger's identity a secret, but once they revealed he is a dark elf, it was obvious he was either Raith (especially since it was the same voice actor in German) or the other dark elven Circle mage, Zahaar the Snake. It's too bad they couldn't go for a more meaningful ending, seeing as how they are both married to and seem to dislike the idea of the established SpellForce lore. But I'll get to that in a sec.

What held everything together is obviously the characters and the troll tribe. All 4 of them had things to do in the story and none of them were superfluous. I especially liked Noag, but I was constantly afraid something is going to happen to him once the Fial Darg gets sewn together, either killing him in the process or the Fial Darg killing him after that because it's evil and untrustworthy. Surprise, surprise, he had to sacrifice himself to bring it back. I don't know how much your choices matter here because what happened is that I taught Noag to value the tribe and be gentle, so he chose to sacrifice himself even though I strictly forbade it and said it was because I taught him to do anything for the tribe. It would be cool if something else happens if you had taught him to be more selfish, but I doubt it, he probably gets sacrificed by force in that case. I saved as many trolls at the end as possible, though, I think. As for whether Mugwa exists, I don't think it matters that much, Grungwar says so himself, it is not gods who destroy walls and grant freedom, it's the people who believe.

What didn't particularly work in the story is basically anything that has to do with established SpellForce lore but the writers feel the need to constantly adhere to. Both 3 parts are so far removed from the lore, they don't feel like SpellForce games at all, it's only when its lore rears its head that you are reminded this is begrudgingly supposed to be a part of a franchise. This is why the ending is, as a whole, so flaccid. Yeah, it's the great we get to experience how the trolls create Nagnag, but the Fial Darg being defeated by what is essentially a deus ex machina feels bad. Maybe they wanted to explain why and how a Fial Darg protects Raith's tomb in Shadow of the Phoenix, but they didn't have to do it in this game. The reveal that the Masked Goddess is Tiara was also a bit flat, especially because you don't do anything to earn that info, you are just told Raith went away for a bit and read it somewhere. How the trolls became more and more desperate to resurrect the Fial Darg felt quite forced. What I would've done is make the Fial Darg or Raith subtly manipulate events behind the scenes in order to orchestrate the series of unfortunate circumstances that would ensure its revival. I didn't appreciate the time adivination/manipulation that was also used in Soul Harvest. It was quite restrained in SH, but it was a regular occurrence in Fallen God and was used as a means to dump exposition whenever convenient.

I felt there was something big missing in the narrative and that's discussion about the worth of animals and their lives. When Noag asks why the slavers and hunters enslave, hurt and kill the Moonkin, Grungwar says it's because they think the Moonkin are animals as if that justifies the whole thing. Nobody ever mentions that maybe animals don't deserve to be treated like this either. They even have tamers and are very close to those cute carrion birds they use in war. I thought it was a missed opportunity, especially because the trolls are shown to revere nature and live in a symbiotic relationship with it.

All in all, I thought Soul Harvest and Fallen God are one of the better written video games in recent memory even though SH3 butchers the established lore while creating its own problems/plot holes by trying to adhere to it. It's a shame the RTS gameplay is outright bad and repetitive, only the heroes salvage the gameplay. I'm not surprised it didn't work out as a multiplayer game, but it's passable for a single player game that you mostly play for the story and exploration. I would want to see more installments in this franchise, ones that focus more on the RTS gameplay and less on the heroes, as well as be more coherent within established lore. This trilogy didn't bring in anything interesting or noteworthy in terms of worldbuilding, whatever new it added was forgettable and unnecessary. The strengths of the narrative lie in the characters and themes, not the setting. Which is unfortunate because the universe of SpellForce 1 is endearing and creative for a "standard fantasy setting" filled with elves and orcs. We have Conquest of Eo, though, which disregards the more egregious schisms with the lore and we'll get DLC for it too.

Good vidya gaem if you like playing for the story and it's challenging enough on Circle Mage difficulty. Go play it.
 
Last edited:

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,070
So, I just completed Fallen God and the ending didn't surprise me too much, but I'll get to that. I won't be talking a lot about the gameplay because it's literally the same as the other two and the RTS gameplay still isn't the best. Spoilers for the entirety of Fallen God.

Nicolas Lietzau knows what he is doing and he's probably one of the best writers in the industry atm. He knows how to tell a fantasy story that isn't just pure nonsense and one made up scenario after the next. I finished Soul Harvest and Fallen God not because the game is super good but because I wanted to know what happens next in the story and because I liked spending time with the characters and was invested in their struggles. That goes double for Fallen God. If Soul Harvest was about trauma, Fallen God is about oppression and prejudice and what one must do and is willing to do to free oneself of them. The story reminded me a bit of Gideon from the Bible. The Fial Darg was used very well because you know the trolls are falling into a trap by resurrecting it if you are a fan of the series and have seen what the Fial Darg are capable of and are. You just know something bad is going to happen and want to scream at the monitor for them to not do it. I initially thought this Fial Darg is the one from Breath of Winter, seeing as how BoW takes place in Urgath as well, but it isn't. They tried to keep the stranger's identity a secret, but once they revealed he is a dark elf, it was obvious he was either Raith (especially since it was the same voice actor in German) or the other dark elven Circle mage, Zahaar the Snake. It's too bad they couldn't go for a more meaningful ending, seeing as how they are both married to and seem to dislike the idea of the established SpellForce lore. But I'll get to that in a sec.

What held everything together is obviously the characters and the troll tribe. All 4 of them had things to do in the story and none of them were superfluous. I especially liked Noag, but I was constantly afraid something is going to happen to him once the Fial Darg gets sewn together, either killing him in the process or the Fial Darg killing him after that because it's evil and untrustworthy. Surprise, surprise, he had to sacrifice himself to bring it back. I don't know how much your choices matter here because what happened is that I taught Noag to value the tribe and be gentle, so he chose to sacrifice himself even though I strictly forbade it and said it was because I taught him to do anything for the tribe. It would be cool if something else happens if you had taught him to be more selfish, but I doubt it, he probably gets sacrificed by force in that case. I saved as many trolls at the end as possible, though, I think. As for whether Mugwa exists, I don't think it matters that much, Grungwar says so himself, it is not gods who destroy walls and grant freedom, it's the people who believe.

What didn't particularly work in the story is basically anything that has to do with established SpellForce lore but the writers feel the need to constantly adhere to. Both 3 parts are so far removed from the lore, they don't feel like SpellForce games at all, it's only when its lore rears its head that you are reminded this is begrudgingly supposed to be a part of a franchise. This is why the ending is, as a whole, so flaccid. Yeah, it's the great we get to experience how the trolls create Nagnag, but the Fial Darg being defeated by what is essentially a deus ex machina feels bad. Maybe they wanted to explain why and how a Fial Darg protects Raith's tomb in Shadow of the Phoenix, but they didn't have to do it in this game. The reveal that the Masked Goddess is Tiara was also a bit flat, especially because you don't do anything to earn that info, you are just told Raith went away for a bit and read it somewhere. How the trolls became more and more desperate to resurrect the Fial Darg felt quite forced. What I would've done is make the Fial Darg or Raith subtly manipulate events behind the scenes in order to orchestrate the series of unfortunate circumstances that would ensure its revival. I didn't appreciate the time adivination/manipulation that was also used in Soul Harvest. It was quite restrained in SH, but it was a regular occurrence in Fallen God and was used as a means to dump exposition whenever convenient.

I felt there was something big missing in the narrative and that's discussion about the worth of animals and their lives. When Noag asks why the slavers and hunters enslave, hurt and kill the Moonkin, Grungwar says it's because they think the Moonkin are animals as if that justifies the whole thing. Nobody ever mentions that maybe animals don't deserve to be treated like this either. They even have tamers and are very close to those cute carrion birds they use in war. I thought it was a missed opportunity, especially because the trolls are shown to revere nature and live in a symbiotic relationship with it.

All in all, I thought Soul Harvest and Fallen God are one of the better written video games in recent memory even though SH3 butchers the established lore while creating its own problems/plot holes by trying to adhere to it. It's a shame the RTS gameplay is outright bad and repetitive, only the heroes salvage the gameplay. I'm not surprised it didn't work out as a multiplayer game, but it's passable for a single player game that you mostly play for the story and exploration. I would want to see more installments in this franchise, ones that focus more on the RTS gameplay and less on the heroes, as well as be more coherent within established lore. This trilogy didn't bring in anything interesting or noteworthy in terms of worldbuilding, whatever new it added was forgettable and unnecessary. The strengths of the narrative lie in the characters and themes, not the setting. Which is unfortunate because the universe of SpellForce 1 is endearing and creative for a "standard fantasy setting" filled with elves and orcs. We have Conquest of Eo, though, which disregards the more egregious schisms with the lore and we'll get DLC for it too.

Good vidya gaem if you like playing for the story and it's challenging enough on Circle Mage difficulty. Go play it.
Rts gameplay is very much WC3 so I got no clue why you say it is bad. I enjoyed it. It is very classic, it focuses more in efficient building of units and multitasking and less on gimicks like Starcraft 2 campaign did.
And MP/skirmish is a bit faster WC3.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
It tries to be WC3, but fails in the details. The units in SF3 feel interchangeable and the best strategy is always to mass as many units as possible and A-click your way to victory. The only micro you have to do is the heroes.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,037
Location
Platypus Planet
I beat SF3 without using units. The heroes are OP enough if you build them that way. I'd say this is even more optimal and easy since you can just rush the enemy base immediately before they get a chance to build up.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
I didn't find that possible on the hardest difficulty in Reforced. Unless you build them all as tanks maybe? But even tanks were quite squishy. The problem is that ranged units immediately target your heroes and splatter them in seconds. On top of that, the enemies already had big armies in the expansions at the start of missions, including titans. Heroes are OP, though.
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
Oh, btw, I managed to fall down a rabbit hole when it comes to the development of this game. Turns out Nicolas Lietzau hates SpellForce and its fans, so that explains why SF3 is so disjointed from established SF lore. There are also instances of mass bans of critics and bug reports. The game also managed to fry some people's systems because of its lack of optimization. It's quite the ride.
 

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
1,975
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
It would be cool if something else happens if you had taught him to be more selfish, but I doubt it, he probably gets sacrificed by force in that case.
Fallen God has two different endings that match two mutually exclusive final missions, depending on Noah character development. I have played them both and there are two ending cinematics with different fates of four main characters.
Shaman hosts Fial Darg in the alternative ending and becomes end boss.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,070
It tries to be WC3, but fails in the details. The units in SF3 feel interchangeable and the best strategy is always to mass as many units as possible and A-click your way to victory. The only micro you have to do is the heroes.
That is not my experience in skirmish vs Hard AI. You need to micro everything at least a bit. And from MP matches I have seen, people do some micro with non heroes, at least to target down high value units.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,025
Pathfinder: Wrath
Whatever micro you need to do isn't enough and the skill ceiling is very low. If it was as good as WC3, it would've picked up steam as a multiplayer game in an RTS drought.
 

goregasm

Scholar
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
150
Have had it since launch, played it a bit then, up right around when you start the rts portion. Put it down for whatever reason.

Gave it a go again last night starting with the old hlaa-whatever mission with just not geralt and archer guy.

Been on a rtwp kick lately so it's a bit jarring not having it, controls out of the box are wonky as fuck, but not un enjoyable thus far, always had this on on my list of playthroughs, never played the OGs but mixing my 2 favorite genres always piqued my interest.
 

Robber Baron

Savant
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
938
Damn the RTS part is really no fun allowed even on easiest difficulty
On a controller at least
 

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