KickStarter Spaceshock - Sci-Fi Turn Based Dungeon Crawl

[Metro]

many RT blobbers?

er...Dungeon Master, Legend of Ishar, Eye of Beholder, Abandoned Places, Black Crypt...jeez. Do I have to spell everything for you ?

Clearly we don't need Divinity Original Sin, the new Torment, Wasteland 2, etc. etc. since we have all of those older titles.

 

[DraQ]

Jesus Christ, DraQ, could you limit your aspie approach to declaring why SS2 backstory sucks ass and not try to analyze a genre you have less than passing knowledge of?

So where am I wrong again?

I've played LoL1 and I've seen DM being played on YT.
Why are you so neurotypically butthurt?

 

[evdk]

Divinity Original Sin, the new Torment, Wasteland 2

Those are supposed to be turn based, faggot.

Halp, reading comprehension.
Myšlenka je, že rada "hraj pořád dokola staré DM klony" je podobně vychytralá jako "kašli na nová tahová erpégéčka, hraj dokola Fallout."
But I've mentioned that already, which you ignored.

Jesus Christ, DraQ, could you limit your aspie approach to declaring why SS2 backstory sucks ass and not try to analyze a genre you have less than passing knowledge of?

So where am I wrong again?

I've played LoL1 and I've seen DM being played on YT.
Why are you so neurotypically butthurt?

I am just puzzled that you wasted two paragraphs at proving how the RT approach to blobbers doesn't work in spite of it working perfectly in DM. Yes, even without 100+ hotkeys.

 

[Metro]

Divinity Original Sin, the new Torment, Wasteland 2

Those are supposed to be turn based.

Edited out the 'faggot' part, did we? Their mechanics are irrelevant to my point which was to mock you by saying we don't need any more games of a particular genre since there were already a dozen or so good ones made a decade ago. You are fast becoming one of the bigger shit posters on the Codex, keep it up.

 

[evdk]

Myšlenka je, že rada "hraj pořád dokola staré DM klony" je podobně vychytralá jako "kašli na nová tahová erpégéčka, hraj dokola Fallout."

Já myslím, že nová tahová rpg jsou přínosem a klikací souboje v reálném čase otravné.

Which is a completely different argument. "RT blobbers suck and nobody should waste their time making them" != "why make more RT blobbers when some were already made in 1989"
The other argument is ultimately self defeating btw because why should Fargo bother making W2 when you can already play the original?

 

[Lady_Error]

Anyone who is against more shitty RT blobbers like Grimrock cannot be a shitposter.

 

[Metro]

Grimrock is fine. To call it 'shitty' is just a desperate attempt at scoring some Kodex Kool Kreds.

 

[Jasede]

It's certainly not as good in my book as LoL or DM but it's a competently made game that knows what it wants to do and does it satisfactorily.

 

[Metro]

Exactly. And while stuff like LoL, DM, and EoB were a decade old they were also made with sizeable dev teams and publisher backing. Grimrock was made by... what... four or five people?

 

[Blaine]

I'm not enamored with the real-time aspect, but that doesn't automatically make them bad games.

 

[Jaesun]

You are fast becoming one of the bigger shit posters on the Codex, keep it up.

Your troll-fu is weak.

He is correct though. Have a problem with the truth?

 

[Zed]

I'm alright with realtime combat., but I hope they add some hotkeys.

There's the new M&M game on the way, so people who wants this game to become that game... can just wait instead.

 

[Lady_Error]

Grimrock is fine. To call it 'shitty' is just a desperate attempt at scoring some Kodex Kool Kreds.

No, I call it shitty because I didn't like it. Shocking, isn't it?

Also, Grimrock is pretty much the worst offender when it comes to the mambo combat in RT games. So there's that. Bad combat equals bad game, especially since it does not have a real story or anything else than combat really.

 

[Jasede]

It has dungeon exploring, mapping, resource-management and puzzle-solving. Quality RPG features in my book!

And you know, some of my favorite games have bad combat: PS:T, Arcanum, Bloodlines, New Vegas-
But that's only if you consider RT blobber combat bad. I don't; I think it's a traditional feature. I think it's kind of fun to waltz. I like to have a good balance of RT and TB games.

 

[Lady_Error]

PS:T combat is heaven compared to (badly done) RT blobbers. There are RT blobbers that I love, like Eye of the Beholder II. But that one has actually an interesting story and different tile-sets and NPC's. Without that it is just sterile.

 

[Jasede]

EotB II really is amazing.

 

[Metro]

You are fast becoming one of the bigger shit posters on the Codex, keep it up.

Your troll-fu is weak.

He is correct though. Have a problem with the truth?

The Serpent of Order has spoken.

Grimrock is fine. To call it 'shitty' is just a desperate attempt at scoring some Kodex Kool Kreds.

No, I call it shitty because I didn't like it. Shocking, isn't it?

You not liking it doesn't make it a shitty game. Shocking? No. Stupid? Yes.

Also, Grimrock is pretty much the worst offender when it comes to the mambo combat in RT games. So there's that. Bad combat equals bad game, especially since it does not have a real story or anything else than combat really.

Your memory of Eye of the Beholder 1 is pretty weak then. Plenty of 'combat mambo' in that one and the story was limited to: 'Adventurers, go kill the evil Beholder in the sewers!' Again, we're talking about a team of a few people who made Grimrock versus Westwood studios.

Anyone who expected the same kind of depth from an indie game versus any old SSI games/games backed by a major publisher is kidding themselves.

 

[Jaesun]

Your memory of the Eye of the Beholder 1 is pretty weak then. Plenty of 'combat mambo' in that one and the story was limited to: 'Adventurers, go kill the evil Beholder in the sewers!'

Yes you could "combat mambo" in Eye of the Beholder 1, but you were not forced to. You could still melee most (not all) of the encounters. Just like in Dungeon Master.

 

[Metro]

In one-on-one situations, yes. The same arguably applies to Grimrock on normal difficulty (I don't recall if EoB had difficulty levels) with the exception of one or two mobs. If you were in an open room in EoB and were facing multiple monsters you pretty much had to dance.

 

[Jaesun]

If you were in an open room in EoB and were facing multiple monsters you pretty much had to dance.

No. Just move to a defensible (front facing) position.

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

If you were in an open room in EoB and were facing multiple monsters you pretty much had to dance.

No. Just move to a defensible (front facing) position.

That would work most of the time, yes, but it'd also make most such encounters several times harder; so much so in fact you'd have to be very firm in your beliefs not to succumb to the lure of the lowbrow dance moves. Most people I knew who played real-time blobbers back then (and I knew quite a few) used a combination of different tactics based on how difficult an encounter in question was: standing in place for trash mobs, backing down a corridor one step at a time for moderate threats and full-on strafe dancing extravaganza for situations where you were either vastly outnumbered, or faced very tough opponents (Chaos, Dran Draggore, beholders hurling disintegrate spell that can one-shot your un-ressurectable elvish spellcasters, etc.). I agree that Grimrock went quite a bit overboard with this, especially on the higher difficulty setting, but it actually didn't bother me that much (less so than in the Ravenloft games, due to their relatively clumsy movement system). From the point of view of a real-time blobber fan, it was a pretty fine game overall, although sadly no Dungeon Master.

Also, Jaesun, I understand you really don't like the sidestepping mini-game and you have every right not to and to explain why, but please, appearing in every single Grimrock-related thread there is, each time with several variations on "combat mambo this" and "combat mambo that" is just plain Skyway-style obnoxious and unworthy of an old-timer CRPG gentleman enthusiast. As evdk justly pointed out (a tip of my hat to him for fighting the good fight with his words on behalf of all of us DM fans), we're not exactly drowning in this type of games, while alternatives abound.

 

[Gozma]

I think there probably should be some kind of incentive not to do the "hop in and out of melee" thing in a RT step blobber, because it's just too optimal. There's no reason not to do it. Same for kiting. Maybe some kind of system where it cuts into your XP (like it stops a combo gauge or something). You can still have the sidestepping stuff in big "arena" fights once in a while (balanced so that if you don't do it, you will lose) because I honestly think it can be kinda fun - like circle strafing with an etch-a-sketch - just not for slowly backing down a corridor against every enemy in the game.

 

[DraQ]

I am just puzzled that you wasted two paragraphs at proving how the RT approach to blobbers doesn't work in spite of it working perfectly in DM. Yes, even without 100+ hotkeys.

Everything being slowed down enough to be controllable by a cumbersome puttplug interface != works perfectly.

 

[evdk]

Can't argue with your superior YouTube deduction skills

 

[DraQ]

Can't argue with your superior YouTube deduction skills

Like I said, I've played LoL1.