Information South Park: The Stick of Truth Needs 2 Million Sales to Break Even

[Pope Amole II]

We are forgetting licencing costs and/or Trey Parker and Matt Stone's cut (I don't know who owns rights to South Park, but I guess Viacom gets a piece of action, too).

This, big times. No matter how unmonocle it is, South Park is a huge, huge franchise so it's only obvious that those guys will take a lion's share of the profits here (especially since they're the ones who are doing all of the voiceover and provide considerable amount of 2D art), therefore, the game will need to sell exceptionally well for the publisher to make profits (not to mention that those numbers are probably artificially heightened - after all, they need profits so they have to aim their promotion at making profits, not breaking even).

Besides, I have little doubt that it won't sell that much - it's a famous IP, after all.

 

[Duraframe300]

We are forgetting licencing costs and/or Trey Parker and Matt Stone's cut (I don't know who owns rights to South Park, but I guess Viacom gets a piece of action, too).

Matt and Trey already worked on this with Obsidian like half a year before THQ was even involved. And then we can assume that Viacom pays a (big) part of the development itself.

The amount THQ has even invested in this project should balance out the cut by itself. They don't have to hire voice actors, a composer, South Park itself provides a lot of assets.....


The 2 Million are still insane by any measure. Or THQ has blown like 30-40Mil on marketing.

 

[sea]

We are forgetting licencing costs and/or Trey Parker and Matt Stone's cut (I don't know who owns rights to South Park, but I guess Viacom gets a piece of action, too).

I think they got UFC licence cheaply before UFC got big (it's a promotional tool for UFC, too). Didn't EA buy the UFC licence form THQ recently?

This. The game is probably quite cheap to produce relatively speaking, but I wouldn't be surprised if the South Park guys made Obsidian pay out the nose for the license. And as others have mentioned, could also be THQ's involvement with the property. A lot of that publisher back-end bloat can drain a game's profits fast when suddenly everyone on the ladder needs a cut.

 

[Duraframe300]

We are forgetting licencing costs and/or Trey Parker and Matt Stone's cut (I don't know who owns rights to South Park, but I guess Viacom gets a piece of action, too).

I think they got UFC licence cheaply before UFC got big (it's a promotional tool for UFC, too). Didn't EA buy the UFC licence form THQ recently?

This. The game is probably quite cheap to produce relatively speaking, but I wouldn't be surprised if the South Park guys made Obsidian pay out the nose for the license.

Except they are the ones who started it. Licensing Issues shouldn't be a problem for THQ and as I mentioned before, thanks to it their usual development costs should be much lower.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

The only way they'll get 2 million sales is to have a huge advertising budget - suck up to the major gaming websites, advertise it on the side of buses, put it on billboards etc. Of course that'll increase the cost overall, so it's a double-edged sword.

To break even they need two million sales to cover the massive advertising costs to get the two million sales to break even. Is there a word or term for that type of situation.

 

[Multidirectional]

To break even they need two million sales to cover the massive advertising costs to get the two million sales to break even. Is there a word or term for that type of situation.

"Catch-22". Good book, read it.

 

[Micmu]

2 mil. is a lot. If this wasn't the SP franchise, their attempt at Slam Dunk!!1 would fail miserably.
Considering how Obsidian got themselves assfucked by Batshitsda with that new vegan thing (or what it was called), it is quite possible that they'll get food scraps for project done and no profits from sales once again.

 

[DwarvenFood]

We are forgetting licencing costs and/or Trey Parker and Matt Stone's cut (I don't know who owns rights to South Park, but I guess Viacom gets a piece of action, too).

I think they got UFC licence cheaply before UFC got big (it's a promotional tool for UFC, too). Didn't EA buy the UFC licence form THQ recently?

This. The game is probably quite cheap to produce relatively speaking, but I wouldn't be surprised if the South Park guys made Obsidian pay out the nose for the license. And as others have mentioned, could also be THQ's involvement with the property. A lot of that publisher back-end bloat can drain a game's profits fast when suddenly everyone on the ladder needs a cut.

But it's not Obsidian that had to pay for the license, right, but the publisher ?

 

[Curious_Tongue]

RIP Obsidian

Obsidian should get paid regardless of sales. Only risk to Obsidian is getting into bed with a near bankrupt publisher.

 

[Duraframe300]

But it's not Obsidian that had to pay for the license, right, but the publisher ?

It's neither.

Again the South Park guys THEMSELVES contacted Obsidian with "Hey we want to make a game". Then began making it and not until a while later THQ joined. THEY reached out to a publisher. Not the other way around.

It can't have cost much for THQ otherwise they are fucking idiots.

 

[Marsal]

But it's not Obsidian that had to pay for the license, right, but the publisher ?

It's neither.

Again the South Park guys THEMSELVES contacted Obsidian with "Hey we want to make a game". Then began making it and not until a while later THQ joined. THEY reached out to a publisher. Not the other way around.

It can't have cost much for THQ otherwise they are fucking idiots.

I don't know if you are arguing semantics, but licenses will be paid one way or the other. Maybe the deal is for x% of profits to go to Viacom and/or Matt & Trey. Maybe it's a lump sum. The fact that Obsidian or THQ were not project initiators has nothing to do with that.

 

[Duraframe300]

I don't know if you are arguing semantics, but licenses will be paid one way or the other. Maybe the deal is for x% of profits to go to Viacom and/or Matt & Trey. Maybe it's a lump sum. The fact that Obsidian or THQ were not project initiators has nothing to do with that.

It has a LOT to do with that. Since in this particular case this means that THQ was in a better position than it usually is regarding the license fee deal. This was a passion project for Matt and Trey(And they usually do a fucking lot to make them reality. South Park Movie, Team America and The Book of Mormon (their musical) are all proof of that).

If THQ actually accepted a license deal under these conditions that would have THIS much of an influence they would be utterly retarded. Something's shady about this whole deal and its on THQ's side.

 

[Marsal]

I don't know if you are arguing semantics, but licenses will be paid one way or the other. Maybe the deal is for x% of profits to go to Viacom and/or Matt & Trey. Maybe it's a lump sum. The fact that Obsidian or THQ were not project initiators has nothing to do with that.

It has a LOT to do with that. Since in this particular case this means that THQ was in a better position than it usually is regarding the license fee deal. This was a passion project for Matt and Trey(And they usually do a fucking lot to make them reality. South Park Movie, Team America and The Book of Mormon (their musical) are all proof of that).

If THQ actually accepted a license deal under these conditions that would have THIS much of an influence they would be utterly retarded. Something's shady about this whole deal and its on THQ's side.

Why is it hard for you to understand that IP holders need to get a cut of the pie? Passion project or not for Matt & Trey, it's all business for Viacom.

As for THQ, they're not in the best negotiating position right now, with all of the losses, are they?

 

[Duraframe300]

Why is it hard for you to understand that IP holders need to get a cut of the pie? Passion project or not for Matt & Trey, it's all business for Viacom.

As for THQ, they're not in the best negotiating position right now, with all of the losses, are they?

Yes, they get a cut. I'm not arguing that. I argue the height of that cut. And do you really think in such a situation (as I described above= the cut alone would be enough to explain these 2 Mil Units?).

And THQ's financial situation shouldn't matter. They have to make back the invested amount to "break even". And that invested amount can't seriously be that high for various reasons.

Including that some of the major elements of develoments costs (VO-Budget, Asset Creation) are practically non-existent here thanks to the sp studios providing a lot of these things. Not to mention Viacom or SP Studios or Matt and Trey or whoever at least providing part of the budget. It's not even using an overly expensive engine. It's Obsidian's who's been confirmed to be very cost efficent to work with.



So, where's all that money that THQ apparently invested in this to be made back by selling 2 Mil copies? Where? Something's incredibly shady here.

 

[Infinitron]

And do you really think in such a situation (as I described above= the cut alone would be enough to explain these 2 Mil Units?).

Possibly yes. Licensing can be a real bitch that way. In his Matt Chat interview, Brian Fargo explained how Baldur's Gate failed to save Interplay from financial decline because of the % that had to be paid to WotC. Otherwise, it would have been the "breakout hit" that could have kept the company alive.

 

[Duraframe300]

Possibly yes. Licensing can be a real bitch that way. In his Matt Chat interview, Brian Fargo explained how Baldur's Gate failed to save Interplay from financial decline because of the % that had to be paid to WotC. Otherwise, it would have been the "breakout hit" that could have kept the company alive.

That's not even remotly the same licensing situation (and in no way connected to what I wrote above or did suddenly WOTC start Baldur's Gate and sought Interplay as a publisher.). Not to mention a completly different market back then. Also that still leaves out the big question.

What has THQ actually invested in this?

 

[Infinitron]

Possibly yes. Licensing can be a real bitch that way. In his Matt Chat interview, Brian Fargo explained how Baldur's Gate failed to save Interplay from financial decline because of the % that had to be paid to WotC. Otherwise, it would have been the "breakout hit" that could have kept the company alive.

That's not even remotly the same licensing situation (and in no way connected to what I wrote above or did suddenly WOTC start Baldur's Gate and sought Interplay as a publisher.). Not to mention a completly different market back then.

That's why I said "possibly". You're being way too confident here.

 

[Spectacle]

Whoever pays for the licence, I bet this is a fixed-contract gig for Obsidian like they had for New Vegas. Obsidian gets a set amount with a possible bonus if certain arbitrary conditions are met, but otherwise they let the publisher and/or IP owner worry about profits.

 

[Marsal]

That's not even remotly the same licensing situation (and in no way connected to what I wrote above or did suddenly WOTC start Baldur's Gate and sought Interplay as a publisher.). Not to mention a completly different market back then. Also that still leaves out the big question.

What has THQ actually invested in this?

THQ are hired help, just like Obsidian. They got chosen because they were the cheapest option (most likely). Obsidian makes the game Matt & Trey want, THQ markets and distributes it. It wouldn't surprise me if THQ had no development investment at all. They don't rake in profits. Neither does Obsidian.

Why do they do it? Guaranteed profit. It may be only a couple of million, but there is a chance the game sells well and they earn a couple of million extra. Why the hell not when they're already circling the drain?

 

[Duraframe300]

I'm confident that there's more to this because of two things:

- 2 Mil. is a ridiculus high number even for a license. The only games I've heard of that justify needing such high sales because of license are higly produced sport games.

- It would make sense if it's combined with lots of additional costs for THQ. But they aren't here. As mentioned Asset Creation and VO budget, two of the biggest moneysinks in modern game development, are a non-issue as they are beeing provided on the South Park side. Not to mention even with already done assets from the show. There's also no big engine licensing fees. (Obsidian's own engine + cost efficent. Also removes additional costs engine support would bring)

- Even the biggest moneysink (salary's) isn't (fully) on THQ's side. As mentioned the SP guys are paid by their own side and at least till THQ came in the work was paid by Viacom.


I don't doubt THQ has to pay a substantial cut to Viacom. (Which is only fair). But even then they shouldn't have been in a position where they would have accepted a contract as bad as this. Like even if they only made $15 a copy this still amounts to $30Mil.


So, my only two conclusions are that A: They went insane with the Marketing budget. B: There's something shady going on here.


p.S People shouldn't worry about Obsidian in this whole thing. Regarding them, it probably depends way more on what they contracted with Matt and Trey. THQ is pretty irrelevant this time as they are replaceable if worst comes to worst.

 

[Infinitron]

Is it possible that THQ have to sell 2 mill to earn a bonus? Is there such a thing as distribution royalty?

 

[Duraframe300]

Is it possible that THQ have to sell 2 mill to earn a bonus? Is there such a thing as distribution royalty?

That's one possiblity that there's somehow a threshold at the two million that yields high. In that case a high focus on marketing also makes sense.

 

[Stabwound]

South Park the tv show barely gets 2 million viewers per episode. They're fucked.

 

[Marsal]

So, my only two conclusions are that A: They went insane with the Marketing budget. B: There's something shady going on here.

Bro, I think you're right. Something IS fishy here. They must be laundering mob money!

 

[Duraframe300]

South Park the tv show barely gets 2 million viewers per episode. They're fucked.

Good point. But, that's according to Nielsen numbers and excluding the internet. It's not a good number if you want to guess a potential userbase.