WouldBeCreator said:
As it happens, I don't particularly like Ultima VII.
Who cares. You probably don't have the inteligence to enjoy it anyway. I just used it as a counter-example and as i have said before i may have enjoyed it if i had invested more time exploring it's gameplay. Classics games grow up on you the more you play them. Too bad you missed my point like the patetic talking anus you are.
WouldBeCreator said:
But your Daggerfall : Fallout comparison is the dumbest thing I've read on a forum often plagued by idiots, so it was worth calling out.
Please spare me the objective arguments just give me the superficial and idiotic ass opinions.
WouldBeCreator said:
Daggerfall is a sprawling first-person action-based hack n' slash RPG
So combat is action instead of turn-base. Big deal. Turn-base helps but it is not essential to role-playing. Dialog for example and thief gameplay doesn't need turn-base.
WouldBeCreator said:
with most of its content randomly, haphazardly generated,
Wrong Daggerfall mixes custom made content with pre-generated and later hand tweeked content. The idea was to make a realistic land size and realistic size cities. In some cities you find hand-tweeked places. You just have to look for them.
Hey and don't forget Daggerfall map had more than 20 kingdoms. Each one with hundreds of cities of small towns. They were planed to have town sieges as world events, kingdoms attacking each other and plagues. Ok so this doesn't mater but it shows some of the bold features they were trying to innovate.
WouldBeCreator said:
with no meaningful character interaction,
I'm sure you didn't even tried to play the guilds or the commoners quests. It's true that in comparision to Fallout and Planescape nothing beats those games. It's not as good as Ultima 7 either. Is this a suprise? But character reaction is adequate with everything a decent crpg needs to have. Reputation reactions per kingdom/faction/guild/person, quest reactions, rumors, class reactions, etc
WouldBeCreator said:
Your opinion and just a mater of preference. So completely irrlevant to judge Daggerfall objectively.
WouldBeCreator said:
Youre fucking kiding right? Thats actualy one of the few points were it beats Fallout. How much lore do you read in Fallout? You get about half a douzen video tapes with descriptions of the past plus the stories npcs tell you. Daggerfall has about 40 books describing history, lineage, politics, scholarship, secret societies. The strong point of Fallout is character interaction and role-playing. It's a shame that they never had the opurtunity to develop the seting in Fallout.
On the other side Fallout has most of it's setting in the game itself, on the people conversations, the art, the places, the quests, etc. It's very well done i admit that but the amount of content that is described in Daggerfall books is much more elaborated.
WouldBeCreator said:
Sold as akin to a FPS, it was hocked by people at a LAN gaming spot I occasionally played at in pre-Internet days as "like Quake with magic," which, will idiotic, sheds a little light on how "focused" it was at the RPG crowd.
What does the way it was sold means when you have the game to judge to yourself. They also delivered the Bethony demo were you can play an entire island with douzens of cities, dungeons, guilds, shops and twons people quests. So don't know what you want to imply with this dumbfuckery.
WouldBeCreator said:
Fallout is a small, carefully hand-crafted third person turn-based RPG. The dialogue is sharp, the characters are memorable. Quests are designed to be solved in multiple ways. Combat is optional.
I agree with all this but Daggerfall had the merit of innovating and creating role-playing mechanics without actualy following turn-base and classic isometric seting.
Daggerfall chargen for example is the best chargen for any 3d crpg and comparable to Fallout in quality. While you have perks in Fallout you have advantages and disadvantages in Daggerfall. Both systems come from GURPS and Daggerfall mixes GURPS with D&D classes while Fallout is more similar to GURPS. On the other side Daggerfall lets the player build a biography that has impact in the future on character reactions, initial loot, spells and other stuff.
Also combat is optional in Daggerfall if you ignore the main-quest. You can keep leveling by playing a thief or a scholar.
WouldBeCreator said:
Daggerfall shares more in common with Diablo, frankly, since they share a common root in Nethack.
No it follows the classic tradition in dungeon crawling and in this mater is completely different than Diablo. The game has small rooms, huge central room hubs with a certain theme, caves, traps, treasure rooms, air pits for climbing, all the stuff needed to support different classes but with traditional gameplay balance more familiar to games like Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder. You need to rest a lot and you +5 levels per huge dungeon maximum.
WouldBeCreator said:
As for the contention that Daggerfall permits roleplaying, I suppose that's true if what you want to roleplay is a guy who likes to join clubs and kill rats in people's basements. You've got a lot of choice of clubs and basements, though, so it takes all kinds.
There are many quests that are more elaborate than just killing rats however you will also find many quests as simply as those. You are free to refuse or even abandon them in the middle with a cost in reputation. You probably don't realize that Daggerfall rp mechanics works differently than team turnbase in Baldurs Gate or multiple solution quests in Fallout. Which makes me think if you ever bother yourself trying or just wanted to go trough the main quest playing the game and fighting things like a Neverwinter Nights players do.
In Daggerfall they used guilds and templated quests. You can efectively role-play one of the trinity of classes: thief, mage, warrior plus the extra assassin with special quests for them. Don't expect to find multiple solutions to problems if you take a thieves guild quest. You must choose the guilds that can offer quests suitable to your character or try the commoners who offer a mix of them all. You don't actualy join the thieves guild. They come to you after you robe some people by pickpocketing them. The same with the assassins but you have to kill inocents. To become an hunter you need to be a vampire first and that doesn't happen just like that. But you already know all this don't you since you played Daggerfall.
WouldBeCreator said:
My recollection is that I got about halfway through Daggerfall. I ultimately quit when I jumped down a hole, saved over my game, and subsequently discovered I had no way out (lacking levitation). (Which does establish I'm an idiot, I suppose.)
There are such things as patches and control keys to teleport you to the last standing position. Also you have 6 different save slots. LOL