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some Dark Ages game?

Burning Bridges

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mondblut said:
GlobalExplorer said:
Then give me sources where I can read about the history of e.g. the Nibelungen, Burgundians,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of ... f_Burgundy :smug:

And then follow down the links. No, not the WWW ones. There is a plenty of sources on both Aetius and Merovingian kings, which naturally involve Burgundian kingdom throughout its whole short lifespan. That which was prior to their arrival on the orbit of civilized world is largely speculative, yes, but that's antiquity, not dark ages.

that's some quality link there.

However I was referring to a specific time and and the historic events that are told in the Nibelungenlied. It's a good example for how a lot history of the 5th-8th century got lost, or shrouded in mystery.

other examples are King Arthur, Beowulf, and so on.

or the Wends (a slavic people in todays East Germany that my last names stems from).

And if you refer to the late first millenium northwestern slavs specifically, I suggest various germanic chronicles of the day. They detail a plenty of events involving their slavic neighbours in X-XII centuries.

From the colonization, yes, but probably not much from the timeframe 5-8th century.

Wends are my ancestory from the fathers side. I know not much, they were fishermen and lived a simple peaceful life in round wood houses, on glades. They were described by the Germans as good-natured and peaceful (the reason for their unspectacular assimilation). Seems they did not leave a big lot impression on history. But I am convinced today they make up a large part of the gene pool of East Germany. I know people with East-Prussian roots who looked and behaved very familiar, and I believe we are all descendants of those same north western slavs.

I also think this field is a treasure trove less for strategy games and for RPGs. Here is for example something about Wendish mythology: http://slavialand.org/slavicgods.htm I find it quite amazing that 1000 years ago there were people in our forest worshipping and sacrificizing to those gods.

What exactly happened with the Huns? (they disappeared from history).

It's not like anyone is absolutely certain how huns appeared in the first place. But looking at mongolian example, we can make an educated guess they weren't particularly numerous, the vast majority of their "horde" being herded up from previously submitted tribes, and unlike mongolians, it took a death of one overlord to shatter their hold. An uprising of vassal tribes after the death of Attila is a well-known fact, so it is safe to assume the surviving "true" huns just scattered to four winds, some going back east, some turning into small maraunding bands.

If that is interesting to you, the topic is covered very well in Erik Hildinger: Warriors Of The Steppe: A Military History Of Central Asia, 500 B.c. To 1700 A.d.

Hildinger believes that the Huns were simply assimilated. But again, it's not possible to say what exactly happened, for there are no definite sources.

However, Huns are definitely not connected to Hungary, that's a misnomer.
 

commie

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mondblut said:
commie said:
Are you sure? I think the French now are perfect examples of a decadent, cowardly race from an original bunch of fierce warriors! ;)

Well, at least they survived for 1500 years as a recognized kingdom alone, whereas their competitors were arbitrarily terminated by the designer in mere century or two ;)

Yeah I see what you mean :) Though I think the design of Great Invasions really had the period down right with the constant waves of tribes that would sweep over Europe then be swiftly replaced by another and another. The 'aging' system in GI is a good abstraction to show how difficult it was for nomadic marauders to try and survive as formal settled 'nations'. Rome for example can hold off this 'aging' for a time as it's a rich, established nation, centuries old. The irony for these migratory barbarians is that the very act of changing from nomadic marauders to a settled group of village folk actually weakens them pretty fatally in the long run. They become targets; a collection of weak, poor villages with no real history to tie them to the land they occupy, and thus their 'aging' is much more rapid as they lack the resources to establish themselves more permanently in the face of other marauders waiting to take their place. Only here and there towards the end of the migration period did these tribes have the breathing room needed to set down roots. For the Franks, being an established Germanic nation was an extra benefit in the move to establish themselves more permanently, but they survive more as Dutch and less as French who took the name more than the ethnicity of the Franks.
 

mondblut

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GlobalExplorer said:
that's some quality link there.

Just to pinpoint the clues to dig further. What I mean is anything that deals with the last century of roman Gaul or the rise of salic franks will have a plenty of info on burgundians, since both dealt with them a lot of times.

However I was referring to a specific time and and the historic events that are told in the Nibelungenlied. It's a good example for how a lot history of the 5th-8th century got lost, or shrouded in mystery.

And romans believed Rome was built by Aeneus who escaped the fall of Troy, but we don't call their time a "dark age" and presume it was a vacuum in history. Don't let me start on the jewish history handbook, known as "the bible". Every people of every age had its "time of legends".

From the colonization, yes, but probably not much from the timeframe 5-8th century.

Again, it's not like there is a plethora of pre-5th century information, quite the contrary, there is none. Chances are, before East Francia was fully converted and its christian hierarchy (who were the primary chroniclers of the age) finally gazed further east, nobody on the west was even aware someone still dwells beyond Elba.

I know not much, they were fishermen and lived a simple peaceful life in round wood houses, on glades. They were described by the Germans as good-natured and peaceful (the reason for their unspectacular assimilation).

lolwut? do we live on the same planet?

"Wends" is typically used as an umbrella term for vagrs, obodrites, rugians and other south baltic (holstein, pomerania etc) slavic tribes, and they were anything but peaceful and unspectacularly assimilated. They sacked Hamburg at one point, FFS. Their baltic piracy rivaled the norsemen's, and much of the vikings' infamy can actually be attributed to them.

However, Huns are definitely not connected to Hungary, that's a misnomer.

Naturally. Although some magyars would love to believe otherwise ;)
 

Burning Bridges

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Perhaps I mix that up with the Pruzzians. Or the present day Sorbs. Or those Wends that had remained in remote areas, until the 19th century. But I'm sure I saw it mentioned somewhere, in connection either with the colonization of Prussia, or from the 19th century and attempts to re-educate all remaining Slavs.

But I guess at this point I should better admit that I know very little about their history :salute:
 

oscar

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Trash said:
Darklands while an rpg is one of the best games on the Dark Ages

Arquebuses and Fugger bankers were common in the Dark Ages?

Though if someone whose played Teudogar could give me their impressions I'd be much obliged. I can't tell at all from the screenshots.
 
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There are none, apart from perhaps a few obscure titles from the early 80's, that cover this period apart from the game you already played. Forget about it.
 

hairrorist

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Just trying to be helpful, mate, no need to get rude. Teudogar is a strategic RPG, and since Darklands and other RPGish things had already been mentioned, I don't quite understand your need to be a dick.

So you're looking for a pure strategy game set between 500 and 900AD.

Good luck on that.
 

hairrorist

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I'd check out mods for Mount & Blade or Mount & Blade: Warband.

It does have both RPG and action elements, but it is mostly a strategy game, at least once you've gathered enough of an army to start taking towns and appointing retainers.
 

1eyedking

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I always misread mondblut's nickname as "mon butt".

How ventiturdic of me. It's apropos, at least.
 

mondblut

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Dirk Diggler said:

hairrorist said:
Actually, I think this just might fit your bill:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/ ... 589.0.html

I guess these are as best as I can get.

I played one M&B mod set in post-roman Britain, it was pretty meh. Since M&B is essentially a sandbox combat game, all the historical nuances come down to mere unit reskins. But I'll look into it, thanks. And keep hoping someday Paradox gets a sick idea to rewind the clock in CK 500 years past.
 

mondblut

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Brytenwalda appeared to be a damn fine mod, actually. Enjoying it more than native Warband so far, if only because I have to deal with the likes of Tannist Ynyr Frafdrwch maqq Gwyddno and Tywysog Ysgorda Fychen ap Ysgorda. A possibility to repair the tenseness caused by a botched attempt to grab a girl's ass and drag her into bed by winking at her 40 times is particularly fascinating, I guess irish girls dig twitching.

Too bad it doesn't include continental Europe.
 
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I think there's a mod for EU2, and I've heard about one for EU3. The EU2 mod is called 476, it seems to be what you want.

I think its a very good period for a game. The problem is how does one simulate all the movements of people, invasions and small tribal groups popping up here and there.
 

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I was just poking around for some info for the Paradox derping thread and came accross this on wikipedia:

With this expansion, it is now possible to link Paradox's principal strategic games (Europa Universalis: Rome (with Vae Victis), Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis III, Victoria and Hearts of Iron II: Doomsday (with Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon)) into one twenty-one-century long scenario lasting from 280 BC to 1964 AD

So EU: Rome with Vae Victis expansion must cover the period you are looking to play as Crusader Kings starts in 1066.
 

Malakal

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Destroid said:
I was just poking around for some info for the Paradox derping thread and came accross this on wikipedia:

With this expansion, it is now possible to link Paradox's principal strategic games (Europa Universalis: Rome (with Vae Victis), Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis III, Victoria and Hearts of Iron II: Doomsday (with Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon)) into one twenty-one-century long scenario lasting from 280 BC to 1964 AD

So EU: Rome with Vae Victis expansion must cover the period you are looking to play as Crusader Kings starts in 1066.

Nope, Dark Ages are not covered in Rome, but You can export the game anyway. And have what? 600 years? 800? Gap in the timeline.
 

mondblut

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Malakal said:
Nope, Dark Ages are not covered in Rome, but You can export the game anyway. And have what? 600 years? 800? Gap in the timeline.

Doesn't EURome end with the date of the empire founding? That would make the gap of over a millenium.

As for movements of people, well, all these tribes didn't just pop out from the thin air, they all lived somewhere in obscurity before moving on. So, providing there is a full eurasian map, everybody is starting somewhere, and then each faction AI is scripted to have a priority of expansion in historical direction. Special events may boost them when needed, much like Germany gaining Austria and Czechia as core provinces in HOI2 via historical events.

Alternately, they could indeed pop out of thin air beyond the edge of the map with a big fucking mob like the mongols do in CK and M2TW. I find it highly lame though.
 

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