So when did most people give up on BioWare?

[Shannow]

Darkness Over Daggerford is probably the best thing to come out of NWN (SP at least), and even this one has its problems, mainly that the underlying engine still sucks ass and has not a single redeeming value.

Son, I am disappoint Everybody knows that DoD is worse that the OC... You're still a bro, though *brofist*

OT:
Never was a Bioware "fan". I liked BG and I liked BG2 even more. NWN was a huge letdown, but after HotU and various user made modules I did manage to have a lot of fun with it anyway.
KotOR made me realize that I could never expect anything more than "decent" from Bioware ever again (Not that I consider KotOR as "decent", it is shit.). DA:O then managed to get close to decent only to be stabbed in the back by DA2. Then DA2 turned the blade and took a shit on the corpse. DA2 made me realize that whatever potential Bioware had retained was dead and all that was left were retards. DA2 killed all expectations of even a halfway decent game out of Bio, so I voted DA2.

 

[Excidium]

Then came that walking piece of that was Mass (Gears of) Effect 2. Any trace of RPG-ness was removed, it had shit planet scanning and shit ammo, and broken as shit continuity from the first game.

 

[ElectricOtter]

KotOR was the derp, especially after the travesty that was the NWN OC. However, Jade Empire was the turd that completely extinguished any hope I had remaining for Bioware. Mass Effect only solidified that further. DA:O was thoroughly mediocre, but yet was a tantalizing glimpse of incline. DA2 is the very definition of banal shit boring.


(On a related note, why does the Codex love ME2 so much? Never played much of it, but doesn't just go full out shooter with some faint semblance of RPG mechanics?)

 

[Excidium]

(On a related note, why does the Codex love ME2 so much? Never played much of it, but doesn't just go full out shooter with some faint semblance of RPG mechanics?)

Yes. ME2 offers much improved mole popping and EXTREME SHEPARD dialogue options. It's the better game. The people that complain the loss of "RPG mechanics" (whatever the fuck they took for RPG mechanics in the first game) are just dumb.

 

[Jaesun]

(On a related note, why does the Codex love ME2 so much? Never played much of it, but doesn't just go full out shooter with some faint semblance of RPG mechanics?)

The Codex does not like Mass Effect 2. Along with System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are not cRPG's.

 

[Excidium]

(On a related note, why does the Codex love ME2 so much? Never played much of it, but doesn't just go full out shooter with some faint semblance of RPG mechanics?)

The Codex does not like Mass Effect 2. Along with System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are not cRPG's.

B-b-but you upgrade your powers and store your weapons in an inventory!

 

[Grunker]

Sceptic, have you played The Hex Coda?

 

[Apollion]

The Codex does not like Mass Effect 2. Along with System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are not cRPG's.

RPG or not, all three games rocked. A good argument could be made for the System Shock series as well, to me they felt vaguely like the Ultima Underworld games with guns. Or is somebody gonna tell me the UU games weren't rpgs either. Is hybrid a dirty word around here?

 

[Zarniwoop]

(On a related note, why does the Codex love ME2 so much? Never played much of it, but doesn't just go full out shooter with some faint semblance of RPG mechanics?)

The Codex does not like Mass Effect 2. Along with System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are not cRPG's.

Difference is, SS2 and Deus Ex never claimed to be RPG's in the first place. SS2 was always a first-person shooter. Only recently did retarded gaming journalists start calling it "RPG".

Mass Effect 1 and 2 were marketed as RPG's from the start. Look at any of those "Greatest RPG ever" lists and you'll likely find ME 1 or probably its "special" little brother ME2 on there. EXTREME crate-ducking, collar-grabbing, no-one-remembering-the-massive-reaper-battle-that-just-took-place RPG action.

 

[Sacculina]

Along with System Shock 2 and Deus Ex are not cRPG's.

Vampire: The Masquerade--Bloodlines is ranked #4 in 2010's Codex Top RPGs list. I’m fine with that. If Bloodlines were excluded because it doesn't conform to an accepted definition of an RPG, then the genre is worse off for it, and that definition only limits what it could accomplish and the direction it could take.

Then why reject the LGS school of RPGs (Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Arx Fatalis) just because player skills are required? You can't play Bloodlines without them either.

 

[mondblut]

Vampire: The Masquerade--Bloodlines is ranked #4 in 2010's Codex Top RPGs list.

Even the Kodex is full of ignorant, misguided, delusiounal newfags.

...and that definition only limits what it could accomplish and the direction it could take.

Thank god Bethesda and Bioware disregard definitions and proudly take directions. You should hail them.

You can't play Bloodlines without them either.

And that's why Bloodlines is a shitty FPS with some decent CYOA elements tackled upon.

 

[Wyrmlord]

@Keeper Deven
Because you risk calling them bad games once you discuss them in comparison to MM series, Wizardry, Gold Box, Fallout, ToEE,.etc.

Except they are not bad games, and they are good games on very different merits.

Deus Ex is much better at its core focus - open-ended levels with many tactical options towards objectives - than Fallout is at its core focus - turn-based combat and interaction with the environment to find solutions. A direct comparison between character creation of Deus Ex and character creation of Fallout would unfairly skewer Deus Ex.

In order to not be misleading about merits, we call Deus Ex a very solid FPS.

 

[Sacculina]

Thank god Bethesda and Bioware disregard definitions and proudly take directions.

I just remembered that Emil Pagliarulo is an LGS alumnus. I retract my objection.

 

[Gord]

The real reason is that for a vocal minority an crpg has to be turn-based, party-based, been produced before 2000 (better make that 1992) and as a bonus devoid of anything resembling a story.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Videogame stories are usually just an excuse for you to trudge around the world killing things for their possessions and / or XP, anyway.

 

[ZbojLamignat]

I was still rather gullible when BG came around and expected a good game due to all the hype. It proved to be overrated to fuck and I never even finished it.

I still tried BG2 and, surprise, surprise, it actually turned out to be a huge incline over the first one and I enjoyed it. Nothing AAAwesome or 10/10 GOTY, but a good game.

ToB was a turd with one enjoyable dungeon - Watcher's Keep.

Then came NWN and... gdg328u48u2e26ta18949824789kklklllllj...

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[Sacculina]

Deus Ex is a pretty lousy FPS, though. As to Bloodlines, does it make the list due to the love for Troika, who never fell anywhere as low as Bethesda or BioWare? It's a great game, and I like it more than the RPG it displaced. But that RPG was Baldur's Gate 2.

 

[Gord]

NWN is some kind of anomaly in the development of Bioware.
It's got neither romances (well, with the exception of the Aribeth stuff in HotU, I guess) nor does it have wanna-be hollywood-movie cutscenes.

 

[Rainer]

And that's why Bloodlines is a shitty FPS with some decent CYOA elements tackled upon.

does your dick touch your ass? because you should definitely go fuck yourself.

 

[Sacculina]

NWN is some kind of anomaly in the development of Bioware.
It's got neither romances (well, with the exception of the Aribeth stuff in HotU, I guess) nor does it have wanna-be hollywood-movie cutscenes.

Aribeth was the male love interest in the OC too (she gives a ring to males only, IIRC). I think the female love interest was the spymaster.

 

[Infinitron]

You forgot the drow chick and the Tiefling dude from HotU

 

[Gord]

Aribeth was the male love interest in the OC too (she gives a ring to males only, IIRC). I think the female love interest was the spymaster.

Ah, yes, I remember now. It was just hinted at though, nothing as painful as in later games, so no real "romance".

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Aribeth was the male love interest in the OC too (she gives a ring to males only, IIRC). I think the female love interest was the spymaster.

Heh, I just realized something about both the Spymaster and that male apprentice in the Academy (you can ask out one apprentice before the attack happens).

 

[hakuroshi]

Jade Empire
Never had much faithin Bioware from the beginning, but as dndfag liked BG series and NWN. Hardly enjoyed them as an RPGs, but toying with computerised dnd and forgotten realms was nice. KOTOR was mildly interesting because it had SW in it. But after JE any interest was lost.
I did play both Mass Effect and liked them for female renegade Shepard, but that was a retatded fun.

 

[DraQ]

Baldur's Gate didn't have an open world. The player is arbitrarily locked you out from any part of the world that would break the linear story progression, including the big city that the game is named after.

Close enough. Yeah, Cloakwood is bullshit, but I can handle the big city being locked off due to the story progression - as was said, at least they gave a reasonable excuse (though sneaking through the sewers or something would be cool). The rest of it, though, is pretty good as far as open-ended exploration goes.

Except "exploration" is not much fun if it consists entirely of "wipe the blackness off the map", "constantly scan entire screen with your cursor to find stashes of phat lewt cleverly disguised as single pixels" and "herd the retards" minigames rather than, you know, actual exploration, that is poking around in unlikely places, following subtle clues and finding cleverly hidden stuff.

For game to have good exploration it has to be FPP - 3D or fake 3D as in old crawlers. TPP may do in a pinch, but following camera precludes really cramped environments and the character model obscures what is usually the most interesting part of the screen. Iso with fog of war is absolutely atrocious for the purposes of exploration.

I don't know, maybe there were a lot of good bits just over the horizon, but I'd have to grind a lot to get there and ... ugh.

Well the game does incline markedly after you return to Candlekeep, but it's late in the game and before that it's mostly made of distilled boredom.

MDK2 (meh)

This game demonstrates why you should never try hard to be funny. Prequel was excellent, though - presumably due to not being made by biowhore.

I'm glad they removed the trekking, I hate walking simulators, that's the worst thing about games like Morrowind.

Trekking is good - in the right context.

It works flawlessly in games like Morrowind or Stalker, but in BG? Not so much.