So was Civ4 dumbed down?

[poocolator]

First: It seems like we can have much better discussions as a forum about strategy games than RPGs. Why is that?

It's because people on RPGCodex get butthurt over RPG's more than over strategy games.

 

[MetalCraze]

First: It seems like we can have much better discussions as a forum about strategy games than RPGs. Why is that?

That's because RPG discussion is full of ESF/Gamespot faggots who will always start shitting in the topic if you, god forbid, dare to call the current "best game evar" game they circlejerk about - "dumbed down". And also because they are mentally incapable of discussing anything else except current best game evars.

 

[Grunker]

First: It seems like we can have much better discussions as a forum about strategy games than RPGs. Why is that?

Second: Civ IV is a really high quality game. I wouldn't call it dumbed down at all, actually, just changed. Streamlined might be the right word for it. Most of the changes they made were for the better, and there are a lot of good mods that make the game really worth the time and money. Plus, it's Sid Meier, so it has that "one more turn" effect like a mother fucker.

As for the first: I think Skyway provided the answer without knowing it. It's because there's so much fucking butthurt on both sides. People obviously care too much for a game, or are so butthurt that others care for it they tend to be fucking dicks. Someone says something good about a Bio game, Skyway or other acts like a retarded lunatic, cue Volourn, and then the shitstorm has begun.

Anyway, I agree completely with the second point. It's pretty much one of the most streamlined games I've ever played, and I hear it's veritably heaven to mod for. I find myself enjoying it more than any previous Civ game, and I've been a diehard fan since the first. The auto-options for missionaries, workers and executives are really good.

As far as expansions go, Warlords was definetely lacking, but Beyond the Sword was probably the best expansion since Test of Time.

It's kindda sad they removed the whole "customize your palace/throne room"-thing, though.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor]

Just play TAM, or STFU.

http://tam.ancient.eu.com/

I don't want to even try a mod where the head coder is Albanian, especially a mod about ancient Mediterranean cultures. As civilized as that particular Albanian may be, I'm certain he's managed to weasel some "Illyrian" shit into the final product, tainting it. King Zog would be proud.

Where did you get that he's Albanian (I don't know what nationality he is)?

But yes you are right...

Merging this mod with Rhye's and Fall (minor countries, new civs entering/leaving) would be perfect.

 

[poocolator]

The head coder's name is Shqype or something, which is their autonym.

Albanian: Shqipëri/Shqipëria

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor]

I am having fun playing the Jew super race. The very turn I discovered/founded and converted to Judaism was the day the Assyrians launched a surprise attack (first war ever). They sent 10 units (w catapults) vs the 2 spearmen + archer in my isolated southernmost city, which also happened to be where the religion was founded/holy city.

10 turns later I had razed an Assyrian city (with my first Great General) and forced them to pay tribute without even losing the holy city.

It was luck but felt like destiny unfolding.

The Assyrians are now comrade Jews, and essentially my vassals, who I am helping against heathen Babylon.

 

[Gold]

It's kindda sad they removed the whole "customize your palace/throne room"-thing, though.

Yeah it is a silly thing but I miss this too.

I used to play Civ 2 until my eyes felt like they wanted to jump out of my head and go on a vacation. Civ 4 didn't give me that same feeling, but overall the only thing I couldn't stand was the resource requirement brought on by an almost needless 3D engine. Even with a decent newish rig the largest maps near the end game make my computer choke.

I also have a feeling that the Strategy section doesn't attract as many people as the General Gaming/RPG/Discussion sections do, so the quality of posters is increased.

 

[Qkieu]

Ok, I am to lazy to read entire topic.

Immortal/Deity player here and a big fan of entire series, I was basically raised on it (the super bad polish localization of Civ I FTW! :D ). Skyway, if You still have some questions about Civ IV just write me a PM.

The short answer is that You should MOST DEFINETLY try out Civ IV.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor]

Just read the first post. It's so laughably wrong.

No surprise to see butthurt Paradox Interactive fan Garfunkel jump on the hate wagon.

The only good point is the lack of ZOC's/attacks of opportunity. I do not know why they took that out.

 

[Grunker]

It's kindda sad they removed the whole "customize your palace/throne room"-thing, though.

Yeah it is a silly thing but I miss this too.

I used to play Civ 2 until my eyes felt like they wanted to jump out of my head and go on a vacation. Civ 4 didn't give me that same feeling, but overall the only thing I couldn't stand was the resource requirement brought on by an almost needless 3D engine. Even with a decent newish rig the largest maps near the end game make my computer choke.

I also have a feeling that the Strategy section doesn't attract as many people as the General Gaming/RPG/Discussion sections do, so the quality of posters is increased.

Well, I find the game to be just as addictive (moreso even, now that tedious jobs such as late-game worker-management is handled by the game itself). But you're right about the ressource requirement. You couldn't get much better than my rig 4 or 5 months ago, and with 18 civs on a Huge map I have to wait 45-60 seconds each turn.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor]

Turn the settings down to 1024x768 and medium textures for some improvement.

But it still crawls on any FFH map larger than small. That's with 4 Gb RAM and a 512 MB on my graphics card.

 

[The Dude]

So, for those in the know, what modmods are essential for FFH? It's a fucking jungle out there and some of the usability stuff and AI improvements sounds rad, but I don't really want poorly designed extra races that some modder thought would add to the experience.

 

[ricolikesrice]

i havent played BASE FFH2 in a long while but as far as i know the Ai improvements* have been merged in the mainmod by now so nothing is really "essential" so i d recommend playing it unmodded for a while to get the game .... later you can still try out "Orbis" or "Fall Further PLUS / Rise from Erebus" which are both fantastic in their own way.

i dont really like most new civs either (aside from the scions of patria) but well you dont have to play with/against them. what i like about Rise from Erebus especially is the way it changes some of the rather boring civs from base FFH to be more interesting. Doviello / Malakim for instance are pretty uninspired in vanilla FFH but awesome in RoE thanks to many new unique units and mechanics. Bannor get interesting chain of command mechanics. There s ton of new and changed mechanics to make each civ even more unique, so i basically cant play base FFH2 anymore but if you are new to all this, i wouldnt jump into one of the modmods just yet before you are more familiar with the game.

*mind you the AI is still not really great, once you know the in- and outs- of this game you ll have an easy time even on the highest difficulty level unless you got a really shitty starting position. but it takes a while to get there and its ton of fun still.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Well basically everything Skyway wrote is true. You can wrangle the meaning of words around but he wasn't wrong in what he wrote - even if his conclusion in the end was wrong.

Many of the automated options are nice but there's a real risk of getting the game to play itself, somewhat like MoO3 was. Solution? Don't automate everything - and the expansions have really made it shine.

As far as FFH goes, I like to play it "vanilla" (can you call it vanilla when it's already a mod for a game), so no idea about the extra-mods for it - but it's not like it really needs them.

 

[poocolator]

Or at least give more options in automating units and cities, so that they aren't completely autonomous.

 

[MetalCraze]

The short answer is that You should MOST DEFINETLY try out Civ IV.

It ended with me going back to Alpha Centauri

BTW AC also has strength tied to health (except it is called "power" here) + various perks, except besides that AC also has other stats so Civ4 is a step back from that considering that it tries to copy better sides of AC so hard (like more complex types of government and more or less "specialized" units)

But I will rather start with FFH

Someone says something good about a Bio game, Skyway or other acts like a retarded lunatic, cue Volourn, and then the shitstorm has begun.

Indeed - this exactly proves my point above - when butthurt fanboys call a disagreeing side - "retards" and "lunatics", considering that those are the only "arguments" they can provide to actual arguments, comparisons and whatnot from "retards" and "lunatics".

 

[Qkieu]

It ended with me going back to Alpha Centauri

Any particular reasons (well, apart those thingies from Your original post You didn't like)? Or just an overall impression?

 

[MetalCraze]

Rather it just made me remember that there is this AC so I got an urge to just compare something, just to launch it for an hour.

And then I was lost

 

[Damned Registrations]

But I will rather start with FFH

Huh? Did you try it? Not sure what this means.

I just started playing it again the last couple days. Just lost a game because some fuckass elves on the other side of the world got a culture victory while I was trying to carve my way to them. Being an evil race kinda sucks; all the good civs automatically hate your guts and declare war at the drop of a hat, and the evil civs will declare war at random for no real reason even if they were completely friendly one turn ago.

Plus the Hyborem are shit compared to the Mercurians in terms of usefulness to summon.

 

[MetalCraze]

Huh? Did you try it? Not sure what this means.

That means that I will dedicate a full playthrough to FFH (which seems to be liked even by people who dislike Civ4) instead of a vanilla game.

and the evil civs will declare war at random for no real reason even if they were completely friendly one turn ago

Welcome to Civ4 (and Civ3 - same lead designer)
The exactly same thing even happens with Colonization 2 considering it's basically a mod for Civ4, looks like some things can't be changed.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor]

So are you having fun with FFH?

The main problem is I think promotions are overpowered in that mod, you can partly fix it by reduce XP gain rate.

 

[Damned Registrations]

They only really become overwhelming on hero units. Mostly the drill upgrades, because the computer doesn't account for the fact that beyond a certain point, their units aren't just at 99% chance to die, they're at 99% chance to die without dealing any damage. If they would mass units immune to first strikes as a response, it wouldn't be so bad.

Then again, maybe it's just my shitty luck. I swear I lose units half the time at supposed 95% odds if they're high level/valuable.

 

[Turisas]

That means that I will dedicate a full playthrough to FFH (which seems to be liked even by people who dislike Civ4) instead of a vanilla game.

Do consider giving the Rise of Mankind a try as well - I was so bored with the vanilla BtS that I gave RoM a try only after a friend of mine practically forced me to. Thought I'd just play for an evening or two and then drop the game again, but all the new additions and changes kept me hooked in one game with the English for a week; I rarely get addicted but it sucked all the free hours I had.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor]

You can also play with "no building requirements for units" or "no minimum levels", to help the AI. Apparently the AI will rarely get cavalry because it doesn't know to get stables, or get archmages (converted from a level 4 mage) because it can't keep it's mages alive long enough.

No tech brokering is necessary too.

 

[Tails]

Ok, so I'm trying out Civilization 2: Test of Time and I get way to often crashes, on patch 1.1. Is this normal under XP?