So Total War

[Quilty]

I would definitely recommend SS, very good balancing of units, a somewhat improved AI. It still doesn't know how to flank in battles, but compensates for that by being awesome on the campaign map: I was just playing as the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and waging war against the Kaliphate (if that is the correct spelling), and I was winning. They were almost crushed and down to three feeble provinces. I had most of my armies deep in their vast territory, since I had from the beginning been allied to the Seljuks (which are at the start of the late era campaing very powerful), who are located at the other end of my country, thinking that we had by then become pretty good buddies so I could turn my back to them while I crushed the Kaliphate. During my previous games this strategy often worked, but this time the Kaliphate suddenly assassinated my leader, one of my generals AND announced a Jihad against me, which made the Seljuks, the Kwarezmian empire and some other muslim countries go to war with me. By the time I had pulled my armies back to my capital, Jerusalem, it was already surrounded, and a huge battle ensued between me and the Seljkus, while the Kaliphate came running at my back to mop up what was left of me.

Fun stuff. :D

And mind you, I was playing on VH for battles and only on Moderate Difficulty for the campaign map. However, despite the above example, alliances in SS are usually very strong, and allies who share your religion rarely turn against you, unless they are very weak and are forced to go to war against you by your other enemies. However, while I was playing as the Teutonic order I had allied myself with Denmark from the start. I had just crushed Lithuania, and was regrouping my forces. I had a small town on an island just next to Denmark's capital, and it had been undefended for most of the game. Suddenly Poland went to war with Denmark, and Poland was winning. Denmark then declared war on me, and took that island, which was actually intelligent, since I had refused to back them up (Poland was stronger, my army was too far away to retaliate if Poland struck at me) and they were quickly losing territory to Poland and so they needed a place to regroup.

Naval invasions are another thing SS excels at, because the AI makes full use of naval invasions, and really knows how to screw you with it just when you think you're winning.

Also, keep in mind that it takes two, three, five or even more turns to recruite a good or elite unit, effectively forcing you to recruit more mercenaries, which is historically accurate. Upkeep is also very, very steep, which kinda sucks, since the AI is quite intelligent and gets far more money than you, so I often felt I was being somewhat cheated. For example, I often find myself in a situation when I had just barely created a full army, destroyed one full army that belonged to the enemy, and was recuperating, thinking that since the enemy had only two or three cities left it couldn't possibly recruit a large army quickly. Unfortunately, it got so much money on its next one or two turns that it just recruited a load of mercenaries and went after me, which can sometimes be a bit discouraging.

Hope this gives you an insight, feel free to ask about some other aspects of the game which I maybe left out.

 

[ricolikesrice]

thanks quilty, sounds good so far - will give it a try !

any special new mechanics i should know about ... read something about supply lines - is that in SS or was it another / submod for SS ?

and while we are at it, is basic SS enough or do i really need any of the submods ?

 

[Trash]

SS is the awesome while LDV just buries the core game in useless addendums choking all the fun out of it. Only play LDV when you're very much into micromanagement.

 

[Shannow]

Generals in the field need supply. Spending time in enemy country reduces moral for their armies and has other detrimental effects.
Alliances are usually so strong that you might spend a lot of time not fighting unless you attack yourself. Units are so balanced that it becomes difficult to find differences between factions. Enemy AI becomes so fearful that they only attack if they feel twice as strong as you. Experience and blacksmiths were severely nerfed. Blacksmiths are more useful for the special units that they provide than for armour and xp on units is pretty much worthless.
Enemy units are buffed even on normal battle difficulty.
The AI is provided with a stronger money cheat. That leads to scenarios like the AI only having one province left but 10-15 full army stacks in that province. Last time I played SS also had some serious settlement growth issues. Towns exploded because of all the growth enhancing buildings and castles only had growth if you put generals with >4 chivalry into them.
I also never noticed any AI improvements. In fact the AI is very predictable. Unlike vanilla it rarely tried naval invasions.

Just to give a slighty less optimistic view of SS. It has lots and lots of improvements over vanilla but many go over the top and the end product is rather boring. *shrug*

 

[Quilty]

Shannow, have you tried any other mods for M2TW? I've only ever played SS so I'd be interested in any other quality mods.

I agree that after a while SS can become boring and predictable, and the huge amounts of money the AI gets is just ridiculous at times, but for me it has been much more fun than vanilla. Also, in my experience the AI used naval invasions quite a lot, and to their advantage (i.e. they didn't invade with just two units but full stacks).

 

[Trash]

The real combat submod for third age has a beta released. It's a great improvement over the basic mod so far. More units, better AI, more interesting battles, stronger good and evil alliances and the like. Defenite improvement and the best fun I've had with a TW game in ages.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=259833

On SS, the AI was predictable in that it hardly ever attacked unless it felt confident it could beat you. Then it will not hesitate to backstab you. This did make sure that leaving strong garrisons is vital, and that every time you see an allied stack appear in your territory you will go paranoid. You'll however also know that as long as you keep a big stack near that they will most likely not do anything. SS is good and fun, just not perfect. Still, playing as the Kingdom of Jeruzalem and getting a Jihad on your ass is pretty damn intense.

BTW you can elect not to implement that supply part of the mod. I never did because it feels tacked on, does not affect the AI and is just no fun.

 

[ricolikesrice]

...

thanks for the different oppinion shannow, will still give SS a try though - the short form of the name alone already turns me on. :twisted:

but if someone knows a mod that doesnt change anything about the game except for majorly improving the campaign AI (better battle AI is also a plus), that might already do it for me. my memory is telling (maybe fooling) me unmodded MTW2 campaign AI wasnt quite as bad as Empire campaign AI is, but far from good still.

 

[Quilty]

Re: ...

but if someone knows a mod that doesnt change anything about the game except for majorly improving the campaign AI (better battle AI is also a plus), that might already do it for me. my memory is telling (maybe fooling) me unmodded MTW2 campaign AI wasnt quite as bad as Empire campaign AI is, but far from good still.

That's exactly what I'm looking for right now. I like the setting and the general gameplay and especially the graphics of M2TW (yeah, I know, graphicwhore, but hey, to me nothing beats Knights of Jerusalem heavy cavalry charging down a desert in all their prim and proper shiny glroy ) so much that I feel I need to get even more enjoyment out of it with more mods.

@Trash: I have never been interested in LOTR, so how hard would you say it would be for someone who only saw LOTR movies to get into the spirit of the game? Also, could you please describe its battle AI a bit? Does it use any slightly more complex tactics, like flanking?

 

[oldmanpaco]

SS is the awesome while LDV just buries the core game in useless addendums choking all the fun out of it. Only play LDV when you're very much into micromanagement.

I don't know if that is completely fair. SS is good but not altogether difficult. I find the money/building limitations of DLV challenging. It’s not really micro-managing as much as just paying attention to make sure you don't run out of cash and military/government points.

The one thing that is a little to harsh is rebellious noble mechanic. I could use a little less of that.

 

[Shannow]

Nah, most other conversion mods for TWE2 I read about seemed rather unfinished or had elements that sounded stupid. I played SS somewhere around version 4.0 and had lots of fun with it. Version 6.0/6.1 seemed like a large step back from that (in the fun department). At the moment I have a vanilla game with HRE running. There is more backstabbing, challenge and action going on than in SS. Enemy stacks aren't always full and sometimes unit composition is sub-optimal but at least it isn't predictable. France and Milan are constantly trying to take Sardinia and Corsica from me the way the AI in SS hardly ever bothered with Cypres and never with all the Greek islands I took. The only thing that I miss are stong gates. Vanilla's gates are made of paper

Anyway, if you guys find some other awsome mod, be sure to let us know

 

[Trash]

Re: ...

@Trash: I have never been interested in LOTR, so how hard would you say it would be for someone who only saw LOTR movies to get into the spirit of the game? Also, could you please describe its battle AI a bit? Does it use any slightly more complex tactics, like flanking?

Campaign AI seems to be performing a-ok at the moment. The evil factions are however overpowered because of their immense manpower and because they keep better alliances. (Though I do enjoy the challenge and think it fits the setting) Battle AI is a very mixed bag. It's basically MTW2 vanilla, with so much tinkering in the units that stuff like unit cohesion has become rather iffy. However with the real combat mod it sometimes does do some interesting stuff. Unit balance was also dreadfull in the vanilla mod untill the real combat mod fixed them. Darth is also busy with the campaign and battle AI, so you can expect some drastic improvements in later versions.

Yet, despite all its flaws, for some reason I'm utterly enjoying it. Don't even give a shit about the setting really.

 

[poocolator]

I was actually tempted enough to re-watch the movies. Praise the almighty torrent!!

 

[Quilty]

I've been playing Deus Lo Vult for the past few days, and so far it's been quite good. I am impressed by the battle AI. It makes some attempts at flanking, it doesn't rush if its reinforcements are nearby but rather waits for them to catch up, and it's overall satisfying to play against it. One thing I really like about this mod is that at the beginning of the campaign you can set the parameters: whether or not you want the AI to get more money, troops, which events you want and so on.

However, it has startet to freeze up on me quite frequently on the campaign map. Every half and hour, and sometimes every 15 minutes. Annoying, really, and yes, I do have the patch installed. Apart from this, I recommend it.

 

[Quilty]

I've been playing Deus Lo Vult for the past few days, and so far it's been quite good. I am impressed by the battle AI. It makes some attempts at flanking, it doesn't rush if its reinforcements are nearby but rather waits for them to catch up, and it's overall satisfying to play against it. One thing I really like about this mod is that at the beginning of the campaign you can set the parameters: whether or not you want the AI to get more money, troops, which events you want and so on.

However, it has startet to freeze up on me quite frequently on the campaign map. Every half and hour, and sometimes every 15 minutes. Annoying, really, and yes, I do have the patch installed. Apart from this, I recommend it.

EDIT: the problem went away after I shut down my download manager. Hurr durr etc.

 

[Trash]

Seems they're finally past beta phase with Empire. The game really has been the most buggy and clearly rushed of the TW games to date. Glad to see they kept on patching it though. The patch looks like it finally finishes all of the last really irritating niggles and the new units will finally flesh out the factions. What's funny is how they keep calling them free units when it is pretty clear they just didn't make the initial release due to time constraints. All the playable factions apart from the British had almost the exact same unit types. Still, the game formula is a heap of fun so I'm really looking forward to playing this once again.

Hi guys,

Update 1.3 will be released for Empire: Total War on 22nd June 2009. Ahead of its release, here are the major features coming to the update:


We’ve worked on implementing the multi-threading in the game for multi-core processors and made many optimisations that will also help increase performance on single core machines.

Players will see huge benefits through increased frame rates particularly in land and naval battles.

14 Free Units have been included in this patch, adding a large amount of diversity to the playable factions and the armies the player will face. These units replace ‘generic’ equivalents giving each faction a unique identity on the battlefield. Here is a description of each free unit available in the update:


Prussian Grenadiers

Wearing a distinctive brass fronted mitre cap, the Prussian Grenadiers are an explosive force to be reckoned with on the battlefield.


Spanish Guardias de infateria

These elite guard infantry are charged with protecting the monarch and are a potent force on the battlefield.


Swedish lifeguard horse

This cavalry regiment forms part of the monarchs’ household guard. Superbly drilled, they act as a shock force on the battlefield.


Holland Horse Guard

Armed with heavy cavalry sabres, these disciplined cavalrymen represent the elite of the army.


Prussian Garde Du Corp

The Prussian Garde Du Corp are a replacement for the Prussian standard Household cavalry. These heavy horse shock troops are best used to break enemy lines and overrun enemy positions. With a strong charge and fearsome attack, these riders make short work of those who would oppose a Prussian monarch.


Prussian Life guard

The Prussian life guards are equipped similarly to line infantrymen. However their uniforms are altogether more splendid, marking them out as a superior force, in arrogance if nothing else. They do a good job as garrison troops and are dedicated to the crown.
Russian Grenadiers

This new Russian unit is great for assaults and their grenades pack a mighty punch!

Spanish Guardias De Corp

The Spanish Guardias De Corp replace household cavalry for Spain. With almost unbreakable morale, on the charge they are almost unstoppable.


Spanish Grenadiers

These are a replacement for the standard Spanish Grenadiers with a distinctive bearskin hat to mark them out as exemplary on the battlefield.

Swedish ‘Lifeguards of foot’

These are a highly trained replacement for the standard Swedish guard. They are often used as a force in a system that defends a monarchy and can be relied upon for utter loyalty and deadly accuracy in the field. Their professionalism is reflected in their fearsome battle reputation.

Holland Guard

The Holland Guards from the United Provinces are superior line infantry units. Carrying smoothbore muskets, they were traditionally chosen to protect the royal family and have an incredibly high morale, often making them the last troops to break in a fight.

Scots

The Scots are a Highland ex-patriate infantry used by the United Provinces, renowned for their deadly charge.

Swiss Infantry

Very disciplined infantry of the United Provinces with quick reload and excellent marksmanship.

Mamelukes

Mamelukes are fearless light horsemen, deadly when deployed against a broken or unsupported enemy.

Additionally the Spanish nation has had a new uniform design to better reflect its historical look.

Audio:

Sound loading has been made asynchronous, so heavy disc access is reduced to a minimum. This makes loading times faster and reduces any instances of ’stuttering’. Unit group sounds have also been improved, for more realistic group movement. The primary sound library (Miles DLL) has been updated to stop occasional clicking. And we’ve added more sound variation for unit deaths and musket fire.

Campaign:

- Several crash bug fixes in saves, movement, agents and logic.

- Various optimisations have been made to AI and path systems to reduce the campaign map turn times.

- When the pirates are destroyed and re-emerge they now maintain a status of at war with all and are unable to enter into diplomatic negotiations.

- Added small ships on domestic trade routes from the trade nodes to home regions moving in the correct direction, i.e. with the flow of trade.

- The AI should now no longer repeatedly sign a diplomatic agreement and then break it the next turn. Treaties are more valuable and adhered to.

- We’ve fixed some border trade agreements allowing greater numbers of bordering factions to properly trade with one another.

- Movement arrows now reflect the range of the selected units, not the whole army/navy.

- AI will no longer counter-offer and ask for more money than the player has available.

- Fixed commerce raiding taking money from blockaded trade routes.

- Fixed navies getting stuck when forced to retreat from ports (tactial retreat).

- Fixed rare inability to attack certain ports.

- Fixed middle mouse button camera drag stopping working occasionally.

- Made emergent factions be at war with the faction they emerged against if that faction is human.

- Fixed various movement extent crashes.

- Changed background income for minor factions.

- Fixed diplomatic relations with emergent factions.

- Tactical withdrawal will now always leave armies on the landmass containing the settlement of a region.

- Changed war score system to make the AI more likely to accept peace.

- Fixed crash when embarking and disembarking armies at ports.

- Fixed trade ships not being correctly registered in trade nodes after splitting forces.

- Fixed government change diplomatic effect.

- Improved commerce raiding display on trade screen.

- Faction specific text is now used in diplomacy.

- Prevent players cancelling the movement of fleeing agents.

Balance changes


Units

- Charge bonus generally increased across the board for all units and melee defence reduced.

- Greater diversification of stats between different unit types designed to emphasise differences and improve balance.

- Redone costs for all units for multiplayer to improve game balance which better reflects the actual battlefield worth of each unit.

- Mob formation added in for Native American, irregular and some skirmisher units.

- Spot distance for light infantry, skirmishers, irregulars, light cavalry and missile cavalry increased allowing them to spot hidden units at longer distances.

- Russian line infantry stats have been boosted to allow them to compete more with other faction’s line infantry.

- Movement speed of all unit types reduced by 10%.

- Ammo for light infantry increased to 20, line to 15.

Land battle morale

- Charge morale bonus reduced from 10 to 4.

- Recent casualties, extended casualties and total casualties morale penalties increased slightly for higher percentages.

- Rear and flank exposed morale penalties increased.


Fatigue

- Fatigue penalty for melee reduced from 18 per tick to 10.

- Running fatigue penalty for heavy and light cavalry reduced from -3/-2 to -2/-1.

Artillery Changes
- Calibration area for cannons and howitzers reduced. Accuracy of non-round shot shot types reduced to compensate.

- Muzzle velocity of round shot for cannons increased to make them fire lower and bounce more, accuracy also increased.

- Lethality of shrapnel pieces reduced to match canister shot, range also reduced to 350.

- Load time for special shot types for howitzers increased slightly, and range reduced to 350.

- Calibration area for mortars increased, accuracy of round shot increased to compensate. Reload time increased slightly.

- Accuracy of 18 lbr horse guard artillery restored to 65.

Hit points of gun trains increased to 50, all guns and caissons to 25.


Thanks,

Mark O’Connell

 

[MetalCraze]

Looks like this Enhanced Edition of Empire: TW will finally be worth a playthrough.

 

[silver crowaxe]

- Various optimisations have been made to AI and path systems to reduce the campaign map turn times.

Hopefully this means that the game will be playable in the late era.

 

[Tigranes]

Has the land battle AI been un-fucked from the previous patch? Do naval invasions actually work now?

One day, I'll come back to this game...

 

[oldmanpaco]

I'll come back to this game when EBIII is realeased in 2017.

 

[Shannow]

I said, I'd wait a year before I pick it up. If they keep this pace I might already be playing it by x-mas.
Any promising mods in the tube or finished?

 

[Quilty]

I said, I'd wait a year before I pick it up. If they keep this pace I might already be playing it by x-mas.
Any promising mods in the tube or finished?

I've only tried DarthMod, and it definitely did its best to improve the game, but it couldn't do much since some of the stuff is still hardcoded. Some of this has now been unlocked, so maybe it'll get better.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Oh god $25 on Steam can I resist AM I STRONG ENOUGH

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Wow... seems to fixed a lot of the complaints... might pop this back in soon.

 

[sheek]

Total War: Middle Earth

It seems to be a pretty well-made mod, with focus on detail. Only thing that they haven't really changed are the voice-overs, so you'll have Italian dwarves and german goblins.

There are about four or five of these mods out there...

Site called chamber of records something lists all LOTR games and has a TW section.

I tried the most completed one, choosing the Elves (the faction to the west of the Shire) and it quickly became ridiculous. 20 man archer units cutting down literally thousands of orcs. I invaded the Goblin fortress in the misty mountains. A few hundred elves is all you can realistically muster, and again I slaughtered tens of thousands of orcs in their own stronghold, before running out of time (stupid feature). Next campaign turn I had to start again and the orc force had magically regenerated.

The AI was totally insane as well, Dwarves declaring war on me for no reason, etc.

 

[Forest Dweller]

What about reinforcements in Empire? Has that been fixed yet? (in patch or mod, I don't care) I'm not playing until it's handled like it was in Rome and Medieval 2.