So I've been playing Dragon Age...

[Xor]

"In BG2, every battle is a challenge for an inexperienced player. Once you learn the combat system, you can crank the difficulty up and it's still challenging. Every mage has the potential to kill your entire party if you aren't prepared. In ToB, everything can destroy you with ease if you aren't careful. Combat is much more interesting because the AI is stupid. I had to micromanage each party member, positioning them, picking targets, selecting spells and abilities, and keeping them alive. It was far more interesting than moving behind something and sometimes pressing a button."

Why bring in ME2? This is DA vs BG2. I don't know of anyone who claimed ME2 combat was sueprior to BG2. I sure as hell fuck didn't. Has anyopne claimed that? ANYONE. Please admit if you do so I can laugh at you.

I was playing a rogue, so 90% of the time I was stabbing things in the ass using shit like punisher, dual weapon sweep, etc.

 

[Grunker]

I'd love to know what difficulty Volly plays some games on.

uRspecial!-mode, no doubt.

That, or he just outsmarts us all as a tactitian with melee-strikers in BG2. Certainly possible. He does surprise from time to time!

 

[Pliskin]

"What. This never worked for me in BG2. Those fucking liches would hand me my ass if I tried to go in there with a dick in one hand and a sword in the other.

Not to mention the enemy mages who had a dozen of those can't-touch-this spells. I had to bring down every one of those force fields or whatever with my mage. It was one of those games that really made me fear the casters."

I didn't even bother with spell removing/spell resiatcne lowering spells for the most pasrt. Overrated crap when a good old fashion mass melee rape was all that was needed. Only special or boss fights required more advanced strategy.

Stop the lies, start the truths.

BG2 is one of the few games where even no-name mages can raep yr party.

 

[Malakal]

"What. This never worked for me in BG2. Those fucking liches would hand me my ass if I tried to go in there with a dick in one hand and a sword in the other.

Not to mention the enemy mages who had a dozen of those can't-touch-this spells. I had to bring down every one of those force fields or whatever with my mage. It was one of those games that really made me fear the casters."

I didn't even bother with spell removing/spell resiatcne lowering spells for the most pasrt. Overrated crap when a good old fashion mass melee rape was all that was needed. Only special or boss fights required more advanced strategy.


"In BG2, every battle is a challenge for an inexperienced player. Once you learn the combat system, you can crank the difficulty up and it's still challenging. Every mage has the potential to kill your entire party if you aren't prepared. In ToB, everything can destroy you with ease if you aren't careful. Combat is much more interesting because the AI is stupid. I had to micromanage each party member, positioning them, picking targets, selecting spells and abilities, and keeping them alive. It was far more interesting than moving behind something and sometimes pressing a button."

Why bring in ME2? This is DA vs BG2. I don't know of anyone who claimed ME2 combat was sueprior to BG2. I sure as hell fuck didn't. Has anyopne claimed that? ANYONE. Please admit if you do so I can laugh at you.

This is priceless. There are so many extremely deadly mages in BG2 its not even funny. And they are IMPOSSIBLE to beat without dispelling those protections (ie Kangaxx).
Well, ok, you might get a lucky one hit ko froma undeadslaying weapon. But that doesnt count.
Of course much difficulty comes from those encounters being prepared and scripted. But you know what? Same in DA. And its still shit. Amazing.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I'd love to know what difficulty Volly plays some games on.

Isn't that obvious? He plays on a difficulty level that's easy enough to win the game with retarded strategies as *mass melee zerg*. Same with DA where he played the consoletard version (most likely on normal aka super-easy) and assumed everyone not experiencing the game as he did was *lying*.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

This is priceless. There are so many extremely deadly mages in BG2 its not even funny. And they are IMPOSSIBLE to beat without dispelling those protections (ie Kangaxx).

Kangaxx is not the best example because 1) he doesn't use protections 2) he is immune to lvl 1-9 spells so you can hardly dispell him anyway.

 

[Serious_Business]

piece of shit game

 

[oldmanpaco]

I'd love to know what difficulty Volly plays some games on.

BG2 on standard core rules is not all that challenging. I can't remember the last time I played the game without SCSII or IA. That being said you can still die if you screw around to much before large battles with mages/liches/dragons.

 

[Grunker]

I'd love to know what difficulty Volly plays some games on.

BG2 on standard core rules is not all that challenging. I can't remember the last time I played the game without SCSII or IA. That being said you can still die if you screw around to much before large battles with mages/liches/dragons.

We weren't debating the general difficulty. We were debating how Volly was able to take out the bulk of the BG2 mages with melee-strikers and no dispelling.

 

[Black_Willow]

I'd love to know what difficulty Volly plays some games on.

BG2 on standard core rules is not all that challenging. I can't remember the last time I played the game without SCSII or IA. That being said you can still die if you screw around to much before large battles with mages/liches/dragons.

We weren't debating the general difficulty. We were debating how Volly was able to take out the bulk of the BG2 mages with melee-strikers and no dispelling.

Carsomir

 

[Grunker]

I'd love to know what difficulty Volly plays some games on.

BG2 on standard core rules is not all that challenging. I can't remember the last time I played the game without SCSII or IA. That being said you can still die if you screw around to much before large battles with mages/liches/dragons.

We weren't debating the general difficulty. We were debating how Volly was able to take out the bulk of the BG2 mages with melee-strikers and no dispelling.

Carsomir

Carsomyr only casts Dispel Magic, which won't work against the bulk of the defense spells used by later mages. To get it, you must be able to take out Firkraag, which means you've completed enough to begin combating exactly those mages.

 

[oldmanpaco]

I'd love to know what difficulty Volly plays some games on.

BG2 on standard core rules is not all that challenging. I can't remember the last time I played the game without SCSII or IA. That being said you can still die if you screw around to much before large battles with mages/liches/dragons.

We weren't debating the general difficulty. We were debating how Volly was able to take out the bulk of the BG2 mages with melee-strikers and no dispelling.

Carsomir

Carsomyr only casts Dispel Magic, which won't work against the bulk of the defense spells used by later mages. To get it, you must be able to take out Firkraag, which means you've completed enough to begin combating exactly those mages.

What I was implying is that the mage AI is not all that great before enhancement. They tend to cast stupid spells and not respond correctly to the situation.

 

[Volourn]

"And they are IMPOSSIBLE to beat without dispelling those protections (ie Kangaxx). "

WUT? You are an idiot. Please don't intervere in disucssions when you are obviously ignorant. Kangaxx doesn't require 'strategy'. He requires 'items'. You need two items to beat Kangaxx and when you have those two it is auto win at that. L A M E

There are fun and challenging battles in BG2 btw but most are not. Most don't require much thinking in comparison in DA which highly encourages to use your characters' talents in every battle. Very few battles in DA could be beat by simple melee zerging.

This is a fuckin' fact jack, and don't try to make a fuckin' cumback!

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

No, you don't need 2 items to beat Kangaxx.

 

[relootz]

Volourn does have a point. Taking Kangaxx as example for a good ennemy is stupid, because clearly he isnt one. He lives outside of the normal game rules and casts imprisonement all the time. I think a good enemy is one that confirms to the rules that the PC has to use. You can boost his magic resistance and give him uber items, but DO NOT give him infinite level 10 spells. That is just ridiculous.

BG2 is a far better game then DA though, you only need to look at the villians too see that. Irenicus is a great main villian with an awesome voice actor, and lets not even start about the excellent combat encounters compared to DA where you get a flood of the same creatures thrown at you.

 

[Droog White Smile]

I played WoW for four years

Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Volourn does have a point. Taking Kangaxx as example for a good ennemy is stupid, because clearly he isnt one. He lives outside of the normal game rules and casts imprisonement all the time. I think a good enemy is one that confirms to the rules that the PC has to use. You can boost his magic resistance and give him uber items, but DO NOT give him infinite level 10 spells. That is just ridiculous.

BG2 is a far better game then DA though, you only need to look at the villians too see that. Irenicus is a great main villian with an awesome voice actor, and lets not even start about the excellent combat encounters compared to DA where you get a flood of the same creatures thrown at you.

Demiliches have the Trap the Soul ability, that's how the game rules are. But they can cast it only a limited times per day not spam it non-stop. Otoh I somehow doubt that Kangaxx would be easier if he'd actually use the full array of spells a lvl35 undead Archmage should have at his disposal.

 

[Shannow]

No, you don't need 2 items to beat Kangaxx.

You don't need them as in there are more tactics that work against Kangaxx. But if you have a scroll of protection from magic (there are 2 in BG2, IIRC, but I never used this "tactic" so I'm not sure) + the mace of disruption there is little more involved than whacking away. Then you can say "lol wut, I soloed Kangaxx, roflcopter".
So Kangaxx really was the worst example to bring up.
And Volly, the "DA which highly encourages to use your characters' talents in every battle" just comes from auto-regen. If the game were designed to force you to do some resource management, especially for non-mages, you'd see a lot less skill usage.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

You don't need them as in there are more tactics that work against Kangaxx. But if you have a scroll of protection from magic (there are 2 in BG2, IIRC, but I never used this "tactic" so I'm not sure) + the mace of disruption there is little more involved than whacking away. Then you can say "lol wut, I soloed Kangaxx, roflcopter".

That's one of the main weaknesses of BG2, that Bio felt obliged to include a cheater item for every situation that would be a challenge. Scrolls of Pro Magic/Pro Undead, the shield that reflects beholder rays, the cape that reflects spells etc. Again SCS2 is highly recommended because it removes such items and Liches are no longer dumb enough to just stand around doing nothing while they're mysteriously taking damage out of nowhere (Pro Undead scroll).
Also Mages are no longer oblivious to the spell Protection from Magical weapons, so bashing a Mage a bit with Carsomyr or the Staff of Magi won't cut it anymore.

 

[Serious_Business]

Shut the fuck up faggots. BG2 was a shitty game as so is DA. This is the worst debate ever

 

[relootz]

Volourn does have a point. Taking Kangaxx as example for a good ennemy is stupid, because clearly he isnt one. He lives outside of the normal game rules and casts imprisonement all the time. I think a good enemy is one that confirms to the rules that the PC has to use. You can boost his magic resistance and give him uber items, but DO NOT give him infinite level 10 spells. That is just ridiculous.

BG2 is a far better game then DA though, you only need to look at the villians too see that. Irenicus is a great main villian with an awesome voice actor, and lets not even start about the excellent combat encounters compared to DA where you get a flood of the same creatures thrown at you.

Demiliches have the Trap the Soul ability, that's how the game rules are. But they can cast it only a limited times per day not spam it non-stop. Otoh I somehow doubt that Kangaxx would be easier if he'd actually use the full array of spells a lvl35 undead Archmage should have at his disposal.

So make him a level 40 mage but stick to the rules for a level 40! How hard can this be ?

Why do games have to go outside the game rules to make an enemy challenging?

 

[Grunker]

Volourn does have a point. Taking Kangaxx as example for a good ennemy is stupid, because clearly he isnt one. He lives outside of the normal game rules and casts imprisonement all the time. I think a good enemy is one that confirms to the rules that the PC has to use. You can boost his magic resistance and give him uber items, but DO NOT give him infinite level 10 spells. That is just ridiculous.

BG2 is a far better game then DA though, you only need to look at the villians too see that. Irenicus is a great main villian with an awesome voice actor, and lets not even start about the excellent combat encounters compared to DA where you get a flood of the same creatures thrown at you.

Demiliches have the Trap the Soul ability, that's how the game rules are. But they can cast it only a limited times per day not spam it non-stop. Otoh I somehow doubt that Kangaxx would be easier if he'd actually use the full array of spells a lvl35 undead Archmage should have at his disposal.

So make him a level 40 mage but stick to the rules for a level 40! How hard can this be ?

Why do games have to go outside the game rules to make an enemy challenging?

Because there aren't actually rules for level 35 mages in AD&D? Because it's pretty fucking stupid to code a shitload of extra spells and abilities for two opponents in the entire game?

It's called prioritizing. BG2 actually sticks pretty close to the AD&D rules, considering the RtwP-implementation and the huge amount of content.

 

[Andhaira]

BG2 was the capstone to the golden era of crpg's.
Plz see my most successful thread on this matter.

 

[JarlFrank]

BG2 was the capstone to the golden era of crpg's.
Plz see my most successful thread on this matter.

Your most successful thread was about Fallout 1 and 2, though.

 

[Mattresses]

Sorry, DA is superior to BG2 in every meaningful way. Your choices actually matyter,

I'm playing as a mage, and I betrayed that little shit, Jowan, and yet when I met him again in Redcliffe he cried to me about how sorry he was for betraying me. And then I killed him. All the other choices in the game seem to amount to 'kill the guy/fuck morrigan' or 'don't kill the guy/fuck the other ones', except it doesn't matter, because you can fuck them all, anyway. C&C, dudes.