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Silent Storm Demo

Markman

da Blitz master
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Nival released a russian demo, english should be out soon. You can get it at www.3dgamers.com . Its 211 MB, so for those of you with broadband wanting some 3D JA2 style combat, check it out. And you get to learn some russian. :)


Im downloading now, 57min left.
 

Markman

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Played through the tutorial, its pretty cool, everything is destructible. :twisted:
Gfx are amazing, ragdoll deaths, lots of blood, but theres lots of camera movement.
Gameplay is almost intentical to Jagged Alliance 2, guys can jump, climb and crawl almost anywhere and they can even carry dead guys out of sight, or even your own wounded.
Controls are simple, if you played Blitzkrieg you'll get into it w/out problem. QWER is for firing modes and ZXCV for run, stand up, etc..
Guys are divided in classes and when you get to level up you put some points into some kind of skill tree. They still advance in their primary skills by using them, like shooting, sneaking etc..
Only minor annoyance I noticed is when I open a locker I dont get the pop-up box like in JA2 to pick what I want, instead I need to hold the ALT key to highlight the items.

All in all, this game's gonna rock. 8)
 

Ibbz

Augur
Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Messages
499
If this is as good as you say, I'm sold :D

{You forgot to mention its set WW2, I woulda preferred a modern or sci fi setting, but i'll overlook it for now :) }
 

Section8

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Oct 23, 2002
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It's World War 2, but alternate timeline WW2 from what I've seen. Lot's of cool nazi drawing board designs and prototypes.
 

Greenskin13

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Dec 5, 2002
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Wow. Okay, this game sounds like it could really become a classic in the turn based market.

I'll wait till the US demo comes out, but it's got my interest.
 

Lightzout

Novice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
7
English demo out now...

Apparently the English demo is out now. I had top chase through a dozen windohs to get it from the link above. 3dgamers probably a better bet. Thanks for the tip though this looks great.
 

Markman

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Re: English demo out now...

Lightzout said:
Apparently the English demo is out now. I had top chase through a dozen windohs to get it from the link above. 3dgamers probably a better bet. Thanks for the tip though this looks great.
Its on the main page, just look at the latest demos column. Here's a direct link http://www.3dgamers.com/games/silentstorm/#filelist . Didnt see the english demo out yet.
 

protobob

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Dec 31, 2002
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Just tried the russian demo out. Impressed.

Only complaint is that it suffers from NWN camera syndrome, in that the camera doesn't want to give me the perspective that I want.

Otherwise, very very cool.
 

Jed

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Ever notice how in a lot of the NWN screenshots on the Bio page, the perspective and zoom factor used to take the screenie is often one not officially available on the camera parameters?
 

Jed

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Oh man, does this game ever look sweet. I have no idea what the hell is going on, but from the tutorial section (I think) of the demo, just the turn based system and the movement stuff is so well done. I can't wait to see if this pans out. Amazing how well it implements the climbing stuff! Why again can't a D&D game include this stuff? I agree that the camera isn't as intuitive as it could be, but the rest of the game feels like an old friend...
 

protobob

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Dec 31, 2002
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Try and see if you get a mission going. Hard to with the russian and all (trial and error).

Machine gun blasts throwing people up in the air, folks getting shot and rolling down a hill, grenades blowing up foilage...

It's good stuff.
 

protobob

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Dec 31, 2002
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Messed around with the Silent Storm config files and figured out how to change the camera (give you more angles, more zoom, etc.)

In the "..\program files\jowood\silent storm demo\cfg" there is a file called autoexec.cfg that you need to edit. (be sure to make a copy of this before you change it).

This section configures the camera:

//============================================================================
// User config
mission_camera_limits 35 10 65 -1.35 -0.75
mission_camera_softlimits 35 18 50 -1.4 -0.7
mission_camera_zoom_speed 0.3
mission_camera_pitch_speed 5
mission_camera_yaw_speed 1.5
mission_camera_scroll_speed 1.4
//mission_camera_scroll_acceleration 100

Main two to look at are

mission_camera_limits 35 10 65 -1.35 -0.75
mission_camera_softlimits 35 18 50 -1.4 -0.7

If you've noticed, the camera seems to 'bounce' at extremes. This bounce happens when you take the camera to the limit, it then bounces back to the soft limit.

a) 35/35 = Not sure what this does
b) 10/18 = How far you can zoom in. 0 lets you zoom in all the way.
c) 65/50 = How far you can zoom out. This is a good setting, zooming too far out slows down the game and chops up the graphics.
d) -1.34/-1.4 = The top limit of the viewing angle. -1.5 is straight down. Past that you start seeing things upside down.
e) -0.75/-0.7 = The bottom limit of the viewing angle. 0 lets you take it to street level.

Due to the fact the camera avoids clipping objects, you can't ever really get a good, zoomed in eye level look at your character. But you can still get a pretty interesting perspective.

Due to the way fog works, you will want to turn it off, otherwise once you get down to street level you can't see anything.

In the same directory find you will find a file called config.cfg. To change the fog, find the line that reads:

setvar gfx_fog = 1.00

and change it to:

setvar gfx_fog = 0.00

to turn off the fog.
 

Flarnet

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 6, 2003
Messages
106
Ok here are some opinions, most of which have probably been said already.

1. The game kicks ass. It has almost unlimited potential, and the things standing in the way for it to reach gaming nirvana are relatively small and easily fixable things.

2. The voice comments are not only completely and utterly awful, they happen way too often and have far too little variety. This is what happens when you don't use placeholders and implement the dialog at the last minute.

3. The grenade throwing is a big joke. It's like... joke of the year material. If there was a "biggest joke in game design"-award, Silent Storm would be disqualified due to blatant rigging of the contest with their grenade throwing. When my boss speaks, every single piece of spit that propels out of his mouth travels A LOT further than the professional grenadiers can throw their grenades in Silent Storm.
Listen developers, if the grenades are too powerful in the game you can lower the damage they cause. How about that eh? That way we can avoid situations like standing on top of a pool table and not being able to reach the floor.

4. The game needs some line of sight feedback. Doing a simple trace from the shooter to the target with a warning if there is cover should be easy. This includes warning for friendly fire. Look at Age of Wonders for a simple yet effective graphical solution.
A first person view mode would of course have been even better. The game has amazing graphics and even if a fp mode would strain said graphics some, the tactical and immersion benefits would be enormous.

5. The camera controls are just too... numerous. I find myself spinning the camera FAR too much. Scroll, spin, tilt, zoom <----- at least one could be cut out. Imagine Commandos 2 where instead of 4 predefined viewing angles you can spin continuously.

6. I may be missing something here but, isn't sneaking/stealth without feedback a rather pointless idea? In games I usually play where you employ stealth as a tactic you have some sort of indication of how close you are to being discovered.
Example:
Two enemies are standing under a streetlight in a dark alley.
Stealth tactic:
You put your scout into stealth mode and go prone. You approach them carefully. At distance X they notice you and the game goes TB with either them or you getting the first shot.
Non-stealth tactic:
Your soldier is in crouch position and approaches them. At distance Y they notice you and the game goes TB with either them or you getting the first shot.
I mean…. what is the actual difference here? Sure, there is a difference in how close they get to the target before they are discovered, but that is all - there is no change in the tactics I employ. Had there been a "cover" indicator I would be able to place my scout at the closest possible distance and do a first strike from that position. THAT would be stealth tactics.

7. In JA2 there were some wonderful shortcut keys to display cover, line-of-sight and range to target. I miss them.

8. Headshots are pathetic. Not grenade-pathetic but pretty darn useless. This I suspect has something to do with the fact that it's not THAT much harder to hit the head compared to the torso. Hello? How about making the headshots really deadly and very very (two full rounds to aim with good sniper) hard to score? Mmmkay.

9. Why is the hardware cursor butt-fucking-ugly? I know there are limitations, but it doesn't have to be THIS bad.

10. The "invert x-axis camera turning" (or whatever the exact name is) setting doesn't stick. This is very irritating as you have to click that every time you start the game to get it to behave like 3dsm.


Other than that the game just reeks of grandeur. I'm especially looking forward to lot's of indoor semi-obstructed outdoor levels (like the Allies level). JA2 had FAR too much flat outdoor combat that turned into a "I'll try to snipe you before you grenade me and vice versa"-fest. If only there was a first person mode to do perfect grenade bouncing off walls. Mmm... Well there is always an expansion pack. No wait, people don't do expansion packs anymore, they do full-priced stand-alone expansions that inherently fucks fans in the ass by providing the same content at twice the price. Ooups, rambling again.
 

Section8

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2. The voice comments are not only completely and utterly awful, they happen way too often and have far too little variety. This is what happens when you don't use placeholders and implement the dialog at the last minute.

Definitely agreed, I find that the only comments I don't wince at are the ones like "Helbenhagy" and other gems that I don't understand. Most of the others are just too cheesy for my liking, and the stereotyping doesn't help much either. If there's an Aussie in the final game (and I'm assuming there will be) it will probably be a painful experience listening to him/her. That said, the most annoying voice over in Silent Storm is miles ahead of the most tolerable VO in any Bioware game.

3. The grenade throwing is a big joke.

I'm still a little undecided on this one. The range is exceptionally short, but considering the weapons I don't think it's too bad. I've been barely scratched by full auto bursts at similar ranges to max grenade range, and nearly every throw made by either myself or the AI has resulted in at least one outright kill, and up to four. I also find myself using grenades in a tactically different manner to weapons. I rarely throw them at a target out in the open, instead using them to take out a heavily entrenched foe, or against material targets.

6. I may be missing something here but, isn't sneaking/stealth without feedback a rather pointless idea? In games I usually play where you employ stealth as a tactic you have some sort of indication of how close you are to being discovered.

It is a little irritating. I remember having an agument with a Deus Ex fan who claimed that Deus Ex's stealth was superior to that of Thief, purely because the light jewel meant you could effectively gauge how well hidden you were which isn't realistic. I don't see how a stealth meter is any different to a measure of VPs or APs. It's an important factor, and I agree that it would be nice to have an effective measure of stealth.

However, I find that stealth seems to be more of a way of masking sound, meaning as long as you aren't sneaking within an enemies line of sight you should remain pretty well hidden.

8. Headshots are pathetic. Not grenade-pathetic but pretty darn useless. This I suspect has something to do with the fact that it's not THAT much harder to hit the head compared to the torso. Hello? How about making the headshots really deadly and very very (two full rounds to aim with good sniper) hard to score? Mmmkay.

I don't necessarily agree with this, next time you think you've scored a headshot, take a close look at the enemy you've hit and look for the bullet wound. I haven't really looked that closely myself to be honest, but when I've got an honest to god headshot it's done a lot of damage. I'll have a look myself, because I have a feeling that low-medium damage headshots might actually be hitting the upper torso.
 

Vicious Love

Novice
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Messages
4
I'm a big fan of everything to which JoWood have signed their name thus far, and I have to say I'm pretty damn disappointed with their latest offering.
The following scenarios have recurred time and again every single time I tried out the demo, on all three difficulty levels:

Allies mission - Ubersneaky scout "Elf" sneaks up to within 1 cell of an enemy(IE, either physically touching him, or a single space behind him, which equates to about 30 centimeters, half a meter at most). Undetected, she either waits a full turn, or uses what AP she has left(Having spent less than 6 AP getting behind her foe), either by emptying half a clip of ammo into the unwitting foe's back, or by throwing no less than four knives at him before he even has a chance to turn around.
Two thirds of the time, either one of the knives misses, bringing the enemy to critical condition, but no worse, or only 3 or 4 of the shots connect, bringing him to heavily wounded or healthier. EIther scenario is invariably followed by said enemy turning around and making a soup strainer out of Elf, either killing her or redbarring her health.

Axis mission - Ubersneaky Italian psycopath "Not Elf" lies down beside train tracks and hides. In broad daylight. 2 or more enemies wander by. Not Elf opens fire with silenced AUTOMATIC from 2 meters away, at the very most. One enemy seriously wounded. Enemies respond to this point blank threat, not by kicking Not Elf in the face, a few inches from their boots, but by crouching and looking alert, possibly taking a step or two in a random direction. Not Elf empties magazine, finally bringing one adversary down, reloads(The WWII equivalent of rinsing) and repeats. Enemies never catch on.


Lame, lame, LAME. Besides which, when I spend 2 or more turns drawing a bead on a stationary subgoonling from a convenient sniper's roost at a perfectly manageable distance, I EXPECT TO BRING HIM DOWN IN ONE SHOT, not three or more. This holds even truer for high powered rifles fired from concealment at point blank.
Also, as pointed out above, grenades are downright pathetic. Which is to say, within range, they're infinitely more effective than firearms, for some reason, but said range leaves plenty to be desired.


Now, were this game somehow revolutionary, or at least innovative, I'd be willing to let this apalling lack of realism slide. However, when a game does no more than polish up an older title(Jagged Alliance, ferinstance) with spiffy 3D graphics and a few hours of voice acting, you expect it to at least get it right. I mean, Jagged Alliance's damage/stealth system had plenty of holes in it, but I do believe this latest incarnation has actually worsened a few of them, rather than learning from past mistakes.
I suppose this is my way of saying JoWood should stick to Gothic III.
 

DrattedTin

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
426
Jowood doesn't develope anything. They're a publisher like Infogrames (or Atari, for you modernists).
 

Astromarine

Erudite
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
2,213
Location
Switzerland
One thing. Level is a VERY IMPORTANT thing in the game. If you search the Nival forums for a level hack and raise your sniper, try again that one-shot thing. You'll be surprised.

As for the scouts not killing people with full clips, do you know you can aim shots at the head or other body parts? try the keypad number keys. I know that shooting the arms increases the possibility of the enemies dropping their weapons, which helps a lot.
 

Vicious Love

Novice
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Messages
4
Thanks for the tip. No dice, however.
I've tried point blank headshots, which had a smaller chance of hitting in spite of my character striking from ambush directly behind the target, and have been disappointed by the resulting damage.
I suppose said shots may have missed the head and hit the upper torso, as suggested above, but when I can't count on a scout to hit the back of the head of an immobile, unwitting target a few centimeters away, even on easy difficulty... Suffice to say that restructures my perception of the tactical parameters. And also hits me with a brick of lame, in a sock of lame.
Besides which, half a clip of ammo to the back of the chest should kill, even if half the bullets inexplicably miss. It should at least bring a guy down to zero AP for ONE ROUND, so I can finish unloading the clip while he delivers a dying monologue, instead of calmly turning about and splattering me while making some hilarious comment about geese. Oh, them crazy sturmtruppen.
Honestly, if you've no intention of incorporating realism into the game, take it out of WWII, nazi flying power armor human zeppelin prototypes or no. I wouldn't mind needing three squadmates on full auto heavy plasma to bring down a muton commander before he retaliates, but a muton's shoes are far, far too big for some random vermakt type to fill.
Ever played the Shadowrun CRPG? Armed, nonmagical combat consisted of two or more combatants standing in place, repeatedly firing their weapons at one another, hitting and missing at random, until one of them scored a dozen or so hits. Meh.


Incidentally, nice Gaiman quote.
 

Vicious Love

Novice
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Messages
4
Oh, yeah, and thanks for the distinction, Tin.

Forgot to mention, I suppose that sniper level thingie makes sense, although it does get a bit ridiculous for even a low level sniper to miss the head of a stationary, unaware target a spitting distance away after taking aim for so long("So long" being the time it takes to empty a few clips of machine gun ammo or run 200 meters or so, since I'm not all that sure how long a turn is supposed to be).
 

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