mister lamat
Scholar
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 570
then you've got a great quality for making statements that wholly obfuscate and run counter-intuitive to what you're actually saying.
carry on.
carry on.
I think you have a great quality for wholly misunderstanding entire conversations. Since I can't be bothered to explain it all to you, I'll just recommend that you reread the posts, and also suggest that if you don't "get it" then you should stay out of it.mister lamat said:then you've got a great quality for making statements that wholly obfuscate and run counter-intuitive to what you're actually saying.
carry on.
You win!OccupatedVoid said:
No, I watched it happen.Alexander said:With all due respect, I believe you have the events backwards.
And did the heavy handed moderation help, or hurt?Alexander said:Atleast judging from the time I've been there, to me it seemed things first got worse, and then the warnings and bans increased, not the other way around.
Yes, I meant exactly that, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.Alexander said:And I'm sure you don't really believe what you said at first there;
"I never saw a flamewar develop that wasn't directly related to a banning or a thread deletion."
Ok, grant you that one. Bethesda's current efforts at dumbing-down and mainstreaming what used to be a classic RPG series attracts a lot of clueless morons to your forums. Thanks for setting me straight there.Alexander said:Forums change, take Bethesda, they went from a forum for two relatively unknown large games, and some smaller games, being TES I and II and redgaurd and such, to a forum also for Morrowind and Oblivion, which sold millions of copies, even to "mainstream" gamers.
How so? You say yourself the "trolls and spammers" were there when you joined, and are still there now. Ok, you say the total number is more, but the same relative number. So what? You're admitting that the heavy-handed moderation does nothing, save to piss off your own customers. Is that a sound strategy?Alexander said:So I'd contribute such change not to strict moderation, but rather to a giant increase in members.
Ah, see now you're letting your ESF moderator training show.Alexander said:You suggest simply letting someone go at it and do nothing, well I'm sure such things could very well happen on fan owned forums, but can you imagine the publicity for Bethesda if reporters stumble across the official ES forums and find nothing but people calling eachother all sorts of things. Bad publicity to say the least. not to mention in violation of their ESRB rating methinks.
Yes, yes, of course we realize it's your forum, and you can run it however you like. No arguments.Alexander said:Freedom of speech? Yup, but not on a privately owned forum. You knew that when you signed up to TESF.
Alexander said:Example; just about every thread dealing with platform X versus platform Y has turned bad. People had to be warned, sometimes even banned for things they said in there. And this happened, ten, a hundred times. If 100 such threads get locked due to violations of a rule, what's saying nr 101 won't turn into exactly the same thing, a flamewar?
dongle said:And did the heavy handed moderation help, or hurt?
You're more likely to find an interesting discussion there now?
Yes, I meant exactly that, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.
OK, I'll grant what you call "a flamewar" would start up on it's own. If you simply can't bear a forum where folks hold differing opinions, then fine, ban 'em all. What I saw was a disagreement that would last a page, or two, tops. With the heavy-handed moderation in place these would be posted, and re-posted, endlessly. By shutting down arguments mid-stream you make them all the worse, and longer lasting. Just let them have a head of stem and they'll wear themselves out.
I never saw a scene that got truly out of control on the ESF that wasn't due to the initial argument being cut off mid-sentence by a banning or deletion.
Ah, see now you're letting your ESF moderator training show.
What is the place? A forum where your customers can go to exchange ideas and enrich their experience using your products? Or a marketing vehicle to show reporters what a loyal ardent fan base you have? You've just shown me that your job as a moderator there is to prune the forums into a marketing tool for Pete. What possible reason would I have to visit a place like that?
I also suspect that when Pete gets wind of the fact that you're letting the cat out of the bag ESF moderators will be banned from posting on the Codex, same as the Bethesda devs were.
Here's a hint; Word of mouth marketing is pure gold. However you cannot bludgeon your customers into it. You're failing miserably at it.
Yes, yes, of course we realize it's your forum, and you can run it however you like. No arguments.
What I'm saying is the way you've chosen to run it makes for incredibly repetitive, moronic, boring, discussions. A place I used to enjoy, but now holds no interest whatever for me. Plenty of modders I know, some of whom are present here, feel the same way. Is the place ricer or poorer for that? Are your products the richer or poorer for that?
Hardcode said:Why don't you moderators learn how to moderate a forum properly? Why close threads that are starting to flame up, instead of simply deleting those posts and leave the good discussion in? Why don't you delete the spam posts? Why don't you delete the off topic posts? Is it too much work? Tough. I was a moderator at a very, very busy forum that was based on a professional matter. We moderators worked really hard, and we always deleted the shit content of posts so that the good discussion was all that remained. And yes, the volume was similar to the ESF. The problem is that instead of putting water on the fire, the ESF mods just demolish the house.
Wait, wait, HardCode is an ESF refuge?!? :shock:HardCode said:Well, Alexander, keep in mind that I respect you for all of the helpful posts you have made in your pre-moderating days (I hardly go to TESF anymore), so take this the right way ...
The more I think about this, the more fucking ridiculous it sounds.Alexander said:You suggest simply letting someone go at it and do nothing, well I'm sure such things could very well happen on fan owned forums, but can you imagine the publicity for Bethesda if reporters stumble across the official ES forums and find nothing but people calling eachother all sorts of things. Bad publicity to say the least.
Ok, you've completely lost me there.Alexander said:I'm still not so sure the moderating there did get so heavy handed. Looking at myself and others there I really think we're sooner too lenient then we are too strict.
[conspiracy]Or is he?[/conspiracy]JarlFrank said:Alexander is not an Bethesda official.
Sure it's possible, Alexander. I did it all the time. I remember having a few rotten apples in an otherwise good thread and deleting the posts or just the inflammatory content. No reason for a few people to ruin it for everyone. When the original rules about inappropriate content were defined, I used to delete links and PM members that it wasn't okay. I hardly ever gave warnings unless it was repeat behavior because the rules were still fairly new.Alexander said:For you and others who really think this, I so wish you'd be able to look over a moderators shoulder just one day, or maybe just look into the trash section one day. And then I'm sure you'll see you're mistaken.
If at all possible I don't think there's a single mod who wouldn't rather delete the inappropriate content and then let the thread go again, unfortunately that's not always possible.
OccupatedVoid said:BTW: summer is just an alt of KC
dongle said:No, you're worried about a reporter visiting the ESF and finding past customers who hate your products. Your pruning the forums to make Bethesda's fan base look better to the gaming press. You said so yourself. That's your job. Now you say you were never told that as a moderator, it's only of your own volition?
Monica21 said:Sure it's possible, Alexander. I did it all the time. I remember having a few rotten apples in an otherwise good thread and deleting the posts or just the inflammatory content. No reason for a few people to ruin it for everyone. When the original rules about inappropriate content were defined, I used to delete links and PM members that it wasn't okay. I hardly ever gave warnings unless it was repeat behavior because the rules were still fairly new.
You can do exactly what HardCode suggested. It takes more time, but it's definitely do-able.
I put it rightup there with Oblivion is larger than Morrowind, when it has been objectively demonstrated via cell mapping, and subjectively demonstrated just by playing the game.Admiral jimbob said:First, Oblivion has more dialogue and books then our previous games, so I don’t see a shift there.
No it bloody didn't. More dialogue is a flat-out lie. More books, maybe, but... how many were new books? 20 of them? 25?
enchanted_eyeball said:raising the thread from dead.
2 Questions (one for the beth forums and one for for the sake of staying on topic)
1. Did anyone ever find out, why threads on the beth forums gets locked up after 250 posts (or something like that) ?
a. I heard it's to keep the "bandwidth" or the forum speedy, although I administered a large forum for 2 years and there is absolutely no correlation between long-threads vs. bandwidth/speed of the forum if we go by technical analysis.
b. Some idiotic idea invented by "rumors" ?
2. Shivering Isles will have mudcrabs also? If they don't then what will the people speak about 99% of the time instead?