dongle said:
You know what? The heavier handed the moderation got, the worse the forums got. I never saw a flamewar develop that wasn't directly related to a banning or a thread deletion. The more warnings, bans, and deletions dished out the more it spiraled out of control. Can't you see you're encouraging it, not solving anything? You're not winning.
Tons of good modders left in droves, some were banned. Do you think the loss is worth it?
With all due respect, I believe you have the events backwards. Atleast judging from the time I've been there, to me it seemed things first got worse, and then the warnings and bans increased, not the other way around.
And I'm sure you don't really believe what you said at first there;
"I never saw a flamewar develop that wasn't directly related to a banning or a thread deletion."
If you look over the forums, on a day to day basis, you'll see flamewars erupt over all sorts of silly things; someone not liking someone else's character, something being said that was meant as a joke but perceived to be something different. Someone saying console A beats console B. etc etc.
Do you think the ESF is a better place now then when you joined up, and (relatively) free discussion was allowed?
I think the forums were quite different then compared to now. But I'm sure the same can be said when you compare 2002 to now. Back when I joined there were loads of spammers, trolls and the likes already there. Such people are there now aswell.
Forums change, take Bethesda, they went from a forum for two relatively unknown large games, and some smaller games, being TES I and II and redgaurd and such, to a forum also for Morrowind and Oblivion, which sold millions of copies, even to "mainstream" gamers. Between the time that I joined and now they've gotten over 7 times as many members. Going along with that number, I think it's safe to say the number of active members has also increased by such a number, and likely the number of trolls and spammers aswell.
So I'd contribute such change not to strict moderation, but rather to a giant increase in members.
Ever thought of the third option? Just letting them fucking discuss it, and not banning anyone?
It's a discussion forum. Let folks actually discuss stuff, and everything you view as a "problem" will sort itself right out. Those "uncontrollable flamewars" will fizzle out in a page. By deleting them you just insure ten more pop up.
I've never been against discussing things, I'm really always open to discussions and always enjoy them, but there's a large difference in a discussion say like this one, and two people calling eachother names because they don't agree with one another.
I'm personally very much against swearing and namecalling and such, both on the forums and in real life, and really don't see the need for some people to swear to get their point across.
You suggest simply letting someone go at it and do nothing, well I'm sure such things could very well happen on fan owned forums, but can you imagine the publicity for Bethesda if reporters stumble across the official ES forums and find nothing but people calling eachother all sorts of things. Bad publicity to say the least. not to mention in violation of their ESRB rating methinks.
Monica21 said:
Sorry Alexander, but dongle (and I) have both been around the ESF far longer than you, so we have more experience to draw on. Everything dongle said is correct. Over-moderation leads to pissed-off members, and the forums have done nothing but gone downhill, especially since Oblivion's release
Ah, If I came across as meaning you haven't seen much more of the forums then I have I must appologise for that. I realise you've both joined those forums far before me, and have seen loads more.
So obviously the things I say are simply what I've found during the time I've been there, or lurked there. But again, as I mentioned in response to Dongle, I'd say a perceived downfall might sooner be caused by the giant increase in members, then in a real increase in strictness when moderating. Atleast in my opinion.
Aries said:
The thing I'm concerned about is that Bethsodft actually thinks it has the right to decide how content on another site (than their own) is moderated and what content on other forums than their own should be allowed.
The fact still remains that the STG forums as well as the STG site are paid for by ONE man only. It is not Bethsoft that pays STG's monthly or annual fee for webhosting
the STG website. And therefore, ot me, Bethsoftr can have absolutely no say in how
the staff, or the moderators choose to moderate a site which isn't under the control of Bethsoft.
And herein lies my problem...
Any site is obviously free to conduct business as it sees fit, but what sense is there in allowing links to sites on your forum which do the exact thing not allowed on your forum?
As to if I care what's said about me on another site, ofcourse I care, so would Bethesda, if I read sites saying what a bleeping bleep bleephead I am, that's not going to make my day I can assure you.
Freedom of speech? Yup, but not on a privately owned forum. You knew that when you signed up to TESF. Despite that though, As I've said before, I don't think anyone's been banned before for simply giving their opinion on something.