Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns Pre-Release Thread

[Excidium]

There's no defending unlimited ammo. First they dumb down the magic system with cooldowns and now this...

 

[Rake]

Cooldowns in TB is different than cooldowns in RT. I don't see why this is such a problem. It's not like you will run around spamming fireballs

 

[Gozma]

There's no defending unlimited ammo. First they dumb down the magic system with cooldowns and now this...

I'll defend it - at least the "unlimited clips" version where you still have to do reloading in the tactics engine. Quartermastering clips (aside from special ammo) has probably affected a game I've played in a positive, interesting way about 1 time for every 50,000 mouseclicks/hotkey pushes. Reloading was more interesting and important in XCOM (another unlimited clips game) than in X-Com (clip quartermastering), although I guess X-Com has clip bugs so whatever.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The AP spent to reload should be more important than managing your million rounds of ammo, anyway. I don't even remember the last game I played where limited ammo was a real problem instead of "oh, time to change to my other gun".

 

[Roguey]

I welcome this gamist mechanic.

 

[Wizfall]

There's no defending unlimited ammo. First they dumb down the magic system with cooldowns and now this...

Yea go back play JA 2
JA 2 has for sure dialog trees, dialogs option, numerous stat check and expanded narrative story/background.
The combat in the demo is already one of the most sophisticated that i know for a cRPG 'fallout, arcanum, PST are atomized as well as all the bethesda game).
Dumbing down my ass.
Moreover ammo management in the Shadowrun setting is of low interest.
If i get to design a cRPG on a shoestring that would be one the thing i would have cut without an eye blink, especially considering the setting.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Disgusting race traitors. All of you. You're not even humans to me.

 

[Jaesun]

Good. Now go back to GD. Shoooo.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Good. Now go back to GD. Shoooo.

I meant in the PC Master Race sense .

It's funny how all that supposed incline turns out to be stealth decline masquerading as the return of the late half of 90s.

Even shit like Baldur's Gate had ammo. When I was in Nashkel mines my party actually managed to fire about two hundreds of arrows.

 

[Excidium]

Roguey

Do you even know what that word means? Not every nonsensical design is "gamist". It's just plain streamlining for no reason.

Cooldowns in TB is different than cooldowns in RT. I don't see why this is such a problem. It's not like you will run around spamming fireballs

No it isn't, it's the same lazy design. Shadowrun has p. cool spellcasting mechanics, I don't know why they need to infect it with cooldowns.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I am amazed how much people can whine about unlimited ammo. This game will feature Orks and Trolls that could bench-press a Chevy, but if they carry more than 100 rounds of ammo it will ruin your sense of what? Belief? Cost-benefit?

Hi,

Fallout is sci-fi. That means, everything goes, so Bethesda did an awesome job.


Fucking dumbshit using dumbshit arguments. No "anything goes" is not a valid excuse, no matter where, no matter how.

The point wasn't even about believability, but about the mechanic, which you can tell by the fact that Roguey likes it, that it's shit. You were so proud of your awesome argument, though, I guess, that you just had to vomit it up.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's funny how all that supposed incline turns out to be stealth decline masquerading as the return of the late half of 90s.

Even shit like Baldur's Gate had ammo. When I was in Nashkel mines my party actually managed to fire about two hundreds of arrows.

See? The arrows might as well be unlimited.

 

[Roguey]

Roguey

Do you even know what that word means? Not every nonsensical design is "gamist". It's just plain streamlining for no reason.

Yes, I choose to use it colloquially in its "rules that attempt to make the best game possible in spite of arbitrary attempts at simulating reality" sense. Since there's no looting in the base campaign, what does limited ammo add to this game? Nothing but busy- and guesswork. Oh sure, there's special ammo types in the P&P game, but it appears those don't exist in this adaptation.

 

[Wizfall]

I would be very much interested in knowing a good cRPG with better combat mechanics (except maybe ToEE).
Anyone ?
Yea sure HBS is evil because with their AAA budget they can't create the best combination of a strategic and cRPG games.
Something nobody have been able to manage.
But i'm sure PE will change all that with limited arrows and RTWP

 

[Jaesun]

I am still not expecting much (as in OMG HARD CORE CRPG!!!) because they never said it would be. I was pleasantly surprised with stat checks in dialogues. And the fucking guy who created the damn PnP series is also working on this. I would expect more PnP mechanics in the game but I'll have to wait and see.

Still I think it will be an enjoyable game in one of my favorite settings. <3

 

[Excidium]

There's no defending unlimited ammo. First they dumb down the magic system with cooldowns and now this...

Yea go back play JA 2
JA 2 has for sure dialog trees, dialogs option, numerous stat check and expanded narrative story/background.
The combat in the demo is already one of the most sophisticated that i know for a cRPG 'fallout, arcanum, PST are atomized as well as all the bethesda game).
Dumbing down my ass.

Who the fuck is talking about JA2? Also, all those CRPGs you mentioned have mediocre combat, being better isn't worth of praise, it's expected. And the magic system they have shown IS dumbed down.

Moreover ammo management in the Shadowrun setting is of low interest.

Yeah, yeah, but it's only an issue when it bogs down the game, which is no problem in a video game where the computer tracks shit for you. Ammo management at least makes automatic fire less of a no-brainer.

 

[Wizfall]

I am still not expecting much (as in OMG HARD CORE CRPG!!!) because they never said it would be. I was pleasantly surprised with stat checks in dialogues. And the fucking guy who created the damn PnP series is also working on this. I would expect more PnP mechanics in the game but I'll have to wait and see.

Still I think it will be an enjoyable game in one of my favorite settings. <3

Exactly.
For me i see the it as a successor of the SNES but with TB combat and as much cRPG element as possible.
My main initial interest is the story and the setting and having a good time for what it is (which seem already way more than what i was expecting).
Excidium I talk about JA 2 because i don't know any true cRPG with better combat system and you talk about dumbing down...
Automatic fire is a no brainer when ammo is a s common as food and you don't have a weight management system.

 

[Excidium]

I'm talking about dumbing down from the source material.

 

[evdk]

I'm talking about dumbing down from the source material.

All cRPGs based on a TT source have done that. With the possible exception of ToEE.

 

[Jaesun]

Yeah even the gold box games. (though it still retains quite a good bit of 1ed AD&D) It is just a different play style. Some things just do not come out well in a video game as they do in a PnP session.

 

[Wizfall]

I'm talking about dumbing down from the source material.

Got not problem with that that if the result is more sophisticated than anything we have.
And honestly i think the PnP magic system would have been way more complicated/costly to implement.

 

[Excidium]

TOEE is guilty too. It doesn't have grappling, for example (except for the giant frogs). But KotC does.

I'm talking about dumbing down from the source material.

Got not problem with that that if the result is more sophisticated than anything we have.
And honestly i think the PnP magic system would have been way more complicated/costly to implement.

All the pnp mechanics are p. simple to implement with coding, it's all about adding modifiers and rolling dice.

Yeah even the gold box games. (though it still retains quite a good bit of 1ed AD&D) It is just a different play style. Some things just do not come out well in a video game as they do in a PnP session.

Oh, come on. Are you comparing the first proper D&D CRPG, from 1988 to something made now? Besides the older Shadowrun editions seem like a clusterfuck of rules but it's nowhere near as byzantine as first edition AD&D. I think it was designed in a way to make understanding the combat rules impossible.

 

[evdk]

TOEE is guilty too. It doesn't have grappling, for example (except for the giant frogs). But KotC does.

Figured there would be something, grappling was actually my bet.

All the pnp mechanics are p. simple to implement with coding, it's all about adding modifiers and rolling dice.

Metaplanes?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I would be very much interested in knowing a good cRPG with better combat mechanics (except maybe ToEE).
Anyone ?
Yea sure HBS is evil because with their AAA budget they can't create the best combination of a strategic and cRPG games.
Something nobody have been able to manage.

Mainly because usually you get good mechanics either by emulating reality (JA2) or by spending lots and lots of work on the system (D&D and ToEE). RPGs developers usually do neither of the things because realism is "bad" and they don't buy an interesting system that was already worked on a lot.
As for the other games with good systems - JA2, ADOM, Silent Storm/Red Hammer, Knights of the Chalice (D20).

See? The arrows might as well be unlimited.

They couldn't. I ran out of ammo several times and had to scavenge from fallen enemies. Not to mention that I ended up having several special fire arrows for special use.

 

[Wizfall]

JA 2, Silent storm are not true cRPG but tactical game.
It's not comparable...dialog tree for example ?
KotC same thing i think.
You are all wrong, SR is more cRPG like Fallout dude, not a tactical game.The story and the setting.
And please don't argue about the beauty of arrow management in BG....