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Shadowrun Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

Jason Liang

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What's up with The Trial? I barely managed to beat it, the two companions who are left after the elf betrays us are basically useless and the AI constantly destroyed my drones. I had to scrape the last of my resources to get to the penthouse and then had to reload spree my way to the U-Bahn without fighting anyone. They pit you against armed and armored to the teeth security forces that take forever to die and are also super accurate and spam grenades. Is this intentional or did I go do it at a too low "level"?

You should do the Trial immediately since it unlocks sub-missions in your main missions (including the Humanis mission).

Your companions are not useless at all, the Mage is your main damage dealer/ buffer/ healer and the Dwarf has a nacrojet pistol. If you go for the fight route, you have to find cover, focus fire and take down the security one at a time. It's actually a well balanced mission, but you definitely need to max out your companions' capabilities. A samurai/ mage/ rigger/ adept should be able to handle the fighting, a talker can find a shortcut to the ground, and a decker can shortcut all the way to the exit. I don't remember Dragonfall having any joke fights like Hong Hong does. Even the prelude mission is respectable. You have some nice/ nasty fights up ahead.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
The necrojet pistol didn't do anything when I tried it, so I didn't use it at all after that. Drones are immune to buffs, so whoop-di-doo. They were destroyed pretty fast anyway, so my char was also useless at that point. The mage couldn't do much damage because of the 5ish armor the security forces have, so he could only brush them with weak DoTs. Keep in my that I'm playing on Very Hard, so the enemies might be buffed.
 

Jason Liang

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I assumed already that you were playing on the hardest difficulty with AI ungimped. You have to make use of the Dwarf, and her best use is her Narcojet Pistol stun. If you have to do all the fights (Penthouse floor, Ground Floor, outside) it's a very difficult fight but still possible for a combat-oriented samurai/ mage/ adept. If you have talk skills, you can avoid the guard fights on the penthouse floor and shortcut directly outside- the outside fight is the easiest, as iirc those guards don't dodge at all. You shouldn't have to "reload spam" to beat it. I remember having a hard time combat route with rigger as well, but I was able to make it outside at least before my Drone died, and once you're outside your allies can handle the last fight by themselves.

Also I'm not sure if you are aware but your starting resources depends on the skills you have (this is true for all 3 games). So if you put points into the right skills, you can start out with more equipment/ stuff to liquidate into nuyen than typical. For example if you have at least 1 point in Drone Control, you get both the D-Class combat drone and a cyberjack. It's helpful to put 1 point into Adept to get a free Killing Hands which you can sell for 700 nuyen (or so).1 point in Conjuring gives you a free Haste spell to sell.

If you're playing on the hardest difficulty, you should raise Adept Skill to at least 2 for Magic Resistance. Also, raising Sorcery to 2 for Aim and Heal is also useful (or take Bear Totem for more healing).

There are a couple of missions like the Trial that have battles which are much harder for a non-combat PC since you don't get your usual companions.

Also another common piece of advice for Dragonfall is to take the Security etiquette, especially if you want to avoid tough fights.
 
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Cross

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Oct 14, 2017
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I'd call Dragonfall polished mediocrity, but that would be overlooking all the ways it lacks in polish, like all the times I had to restart a mission due to game breaking glitches, like being stuck in the combat state after all enemies were defeated while not being able to exit the area or otherwise continue, and the atrocious interface designed for phones. The aggressive streamlining makes for an experience that's without any glaring flaws (unlike many other cRPG's), but also kind of forgettable. It's an okay RPG with some occasional high points (and some lows, particularly in the writing department), but certainly not anything remotely close to top 10 material.
 
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Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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It's easily in my Top 10 RPGs of all time.
:prosper:

So you disagree with me liking this game. That's powerful.

No I don't. I really like it myself. No way in hell the shallowness of the core systems and lack of much meaningful interaction with the story can pull this into the top RPGs though. At its base it's still mainly a Flash game. Just one that comes with an incredible story and atmosphere.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Not to mention that there aren't really all that many cyberpunk RPGs out there, so the novelty alone is worth it. None of the nu-Shadowruns are mindblowing, but they are mobile games at heart and it shows. They are very limited in terms of interacting with the world, but they still offer meaningful stat checks, something the new AA RPGs don't, so I'd say it has that over them. I enjoyed them without any glaring issues that detract from the overall experience, also something you can't say about the new wave of AA RPGs. If HBS ever return to Shadowrun, I'd like to see them expand the gameplay, maybe change the engine if this one is too limited.
 

Jason Liang

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It might not be top 10 but it's close, depending on whether you exclude some games from the category like JA2, SC2, Dark Souls and NWN modules.

Dragonfall: DC > BG1:EE

And then whatever your pet peeve is. I can't stand Arcanum and the Fallouts with their crap combat.

I could probably come up with 10 better crpgs than DF: DC, but not 15, especially if you just factor a single playthrough.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Finished Dragonfall. It felt shorter than Hong Kong. Aaaaand I doomed the world. Oops. I just wanted to see if there's a non-violent option for the end fight. The answer is yes, but the world is fucked. Anyway, it was fun while it lasted, nothing mind-blowing and certainly not "one of the top RPGs of all time" material, but I enjoyed it and will replay the "trilogy" one day, maybe try not to fuck up the world next time.
 
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imweasel

Guest
I had to force myself to finish Hong Kong and still haven't played the extended edition. Dead Man's Switch and Dragonfall are leaps and bounds better.
 

Jason Liang

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Yeah I think you shouldn't have played them out of order. I'd rather be blown away by Dragonfall and disappointed by Hong Kong than be impressed by Hong Kong and underwhelmed by Dragonfall.
 

cvv

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Yeah Hong Kong is bad. The game is drab, by-the-numbers, going through the motions, without any innovation or a shred of the original magic. It's the Dark Souls 3 of the series.
 
Self-Ejected

vivec

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Oct 20, 2014
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Do the bonuses from the outfits actually work? What will I gain, if anything, if I buy this - https://shadowrun.gamepedia.com/Industrious_line_jumpsuit ? Or is it better to just buy more armor and +HP outfits?

It's better to buy the business suit during one of the lodge mission for +2 CHA and 5 AR. It lets me pass a lot of checks. Even with a Troll.
And man this game is amazing, at some point I saw even the cybernetic eye laser makes an appearance in dialogue as well as Ki skill. Definitely a game setting that is limited by its engine.

I don't think it the engine really. It's the scope. Were the game longer it would be much better. The designers simply have put in a lot of effort to incorporate the abilities in the interactions. If there is a place to criticize the game, its the magic. Feels pretty limited. Otherwise, a fantastic game with restricted abilities.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Finished Dragonfall. It felt shorter than Hong Kong. Aaaaand I doomed the world. Oops. I just wanted to see if there's a non-violent option for the end fight.
There is a non-violent option to this encounter that doesn't result in the end of the world, it's just harder to get. And not siding with him (fight or no fight) doesn't end the game right there, there's more stuff afterwards.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
"Impressed" is a strong word, I'm more pleasantly surprised that they could incorporate as much as they could, including multiple solutions, stat checks and game-wide activities that affect the ending, like the Green Winters DVDs and the research into the Yama Kings. That's not to say they are incredible games or that I'm blown away by them, nevermind the order in which I played them. I think it was the correct order, however, Hong Kong is indeed worse than Dragonfall, so I managed to squeeze as much enjoyment out of this series as I could, as opposed to constantly comparing HK to Dragonfall. My opinion wouldn't be different had I played Dragonfall first. The writing in Dragonfall isn't as strong as people make it out to be, though I couldn't predict the twist at the end, which is good. They also managed to keep up the mystery of what is going on until the end. I'd say Eiger was technically the best written of them all, she had a mini-arc she goes through that is logical and is all based on her as a person. Dietrich's character ends at the Humanis compound and he's simply an extension of his idol after that. Glory starts out great and mesmerizing, but "the Devil made me do it" thing ruined it. Blitz is ...Blitz, I guess, he's almost a non-entity, but he's fun to have around on runs. All of them are plagued by the "Bioware syndrome" where you peel layers of their past, that is the wrong approach as far as I'm concerned. The characters need to do stuff NOW, their past needs to affect the PRESENT, their missions aren't enough, they are too passive. Glory should still be in that cult, Dietrich should still front a punk band, etc.

The Kreuzbasar's denizens did their job well, making the hub feel alive, especially Kim/Simmy, she also goes through an arc that makes sense. There really isn't all that much to say about Dragonfall now that I think about it, the combat is the same so I won't go into that. DF is competent and it does its job well, but nobody is going to lose sleep over it and I think it's overrated here. This is not because I played HK first, I wasn't comparing the two at all and I said it's better than HK, so there's that. All the nu-Shadowruns are popcorn games, something light to fill the time, but won't start cults around them. It needs more, they feel limited and don't really use the setting as much as they could. They are still good for what they are, the best mobile games I've played ever and I think they are must-plays if you are into RPGs at all, I'm even going to recommend them to a friend of mine who is still in the shallow end of the pool of gaming as a baby's first turn-based RPG. That's more praise than I can give the other AA RPGs recently, as they aren't must-plays at all, so yeah. I don't regret playing them and I will play them again in the future.
 
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Turbo normie

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Nov 10, 2017
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Sigil
Lacrymas said:
I'd say Eiger was technically the best written of them all...

I do agree ! Eiger is really the character of this game. She helped me a lot to endure Blitz.

I'd like to replay it but the combats are dreadful and I had the stupidity to play chaman which is boring as fuck. :negative:
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,048
Pathfinder: Wrath
Look what I found casually perusing the abyss that is the internet -



That 80's style, lol. Pretty boring, though, I expected some badly choreographed fights, but nothing actually happens.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,048
Pathfinder: Wrath
They are all wearing less material than a ragcloth is made of, lol, except that blonde chick with the trench coat which is somehow full length, yet covers nothing.
 

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