[safe-space + full autism] Units graphic representation

[Lagi]

My obviously subjective rant about graphics (GRP) in computer strategy games, where I wish to replace unit HP bars (or number in box) with changing unit graphics, to represent casualties.


In strategy games player control units, that consist of multiple soldiers. Players tend to imagine that each unit is at least dozens of creature, otherwise its silly to think that you are waging wars, conquer castles and control vast territories with only six men, which is often the outcome if looking on games by their rules.

which approach is the best?

All of them are valid.
Multiple symbolic-like figurines MoM create one of the best looking battlefield, and beautiful drawings of single creatures in HMM2, would be only mucky otherwise (also how to depict 1000x skeleton). Mixed version (W3, PG), where multiple figurine units coexist with single big monster is sensible, because it visually describe why little guys have comparable stats with monster (many of them to compensate lack of size).

I like multiple figurines in MoM, and adore single in FG as well. On the other hand I'm not in favor of single swordsman in AoW1

(enjoy the change in AoW3, if forget rules behind it*)

Multiple figurines are in fact only HP bar, and unit even with 1 figurine is perfectly capable of dealing attacks with full power. This is vexing my point of disbelief. Solution be threshold of figurines: f.ex 100%Hp = 10 figurines, 10% HP = 5 figurines. If HP drop to 0, then unit is destroyed (there could be no less than 5 figurines). So seeing visually 5 guys doing attack with full power would be acceptable.

and its pity they go for multiple in incoming FG2.

============

Besides unit GRP itself, on the main game screen units are ornamented with numbers or hp bar, plus some gems to represent active status, carry items, exp level, being poisoned and plethora of other conditions.

Instead cluttering screen with icons, different condition can be done by

modifying the GRP

• applying filter to an unit: red, green, blue
• background sprite
• increasing brightness - bless
• monochromatic (black&white colors) - sleep, blind, paralyze, polimorfed
• sprite overlay
• contour - like in MoM with enchantments

UI elements that are floating somewhere near formation is stealing attention. Instead observing units, players focus on changing number or bar.

Developers spend lots of time to animate the units, with dozens of frames (When was the last time when you dont play the game at fastest setting or skip all movement animation?), but dont bother to create few different GRP to visualize deteriorating units condition (understandable because they would have to multiply it by each step of animation - valid argument for justification of 3d GRP use).

Basic information about unit strength or HP should be encoded in GRP. By removing figurines or replacing healthy GRP with wounded. GRP should have 3 functional stage (and 4th dead animation/corpse): 100%-67% of HP, 66%-34% and 33%-1%

why only 3 stage, not 14?

the more stage the more workload for graphics to create them. More would not contribute to the player judgment.
From my gaming experience I label unit health by:

• fully ready,
• almost fully ready (99% HP or 9/10 in term of PG),
• somewhat damage but still can fight (70% HP),
• heavy casualties, should retreat them (30% HP)
• almost destroyed (3% HP)

the two steps "almost" is just annoyance and OCD, ("oh they miss 1 hp to full bar, lets just waste turn to make them no scratch & shiny"). When the unit is at the edge of grave the action should be the same: repair ASAP.

I know this tank is not working anymore, I dont find better picture.

in case where there is multiple creature in each unit, the different GRP for each unit is not required. If unit visualize by 10 men receive 34% damage then lets GRP display only 6 figurines after. All will keep verisimilitude in tact, and provide information for player.

"But with HP bar or floating number i have more precise information".

Yes, but its artificial feedback (how could you know that your 14th orc warrior is exactly 34% at max health?), and its a step in direction of spreadsheet game. Don't having full information about each game element could be part of the game (like FogOfWar).

disbelief:

if a car receive damage in RL, you dont know it because some HP bar decrease, but because there is visual dent in the hood.

put into absurd:

why even make effort to draw GRP, just put floating name in box and that's it.

And what if I love to have all the stats and icons around my troops in the center of the game screen?

My above scribble, was to introduce alternative, that I'm not seeing in games.

You can just hide info about number of soldiers and play without it

The game was design with such UI & and information for player in mind. I dont have enough will to not abuse system. Besides I still want this intel, just served in another (limited I agree) form.

P.S. I have no problem with full unit stats and information to second decimal point in side panel or pop-up window, i just dont want them on main screen in form of HUD like augmentation.

 

[Norfleet]

Multiple figurines are in fact only HP bar, and unit even with 1 figurine is perfectly capable of dealing attacks with full power. This is vexing my point of disbelief. Solution be threshold of figurines: f.ex 100%Hp = 10 figurines, 10% HP = 5 figurines. If HP drop to 0, then unit is destroyed (there could be no less than 5 figurines). So seeing visually 5 guys doing attack with full power would be acceptable.

Honestly, it should be vexing, period, regardless of whether it's multiple figures per unit. Why does ANY unit attack at 100% strength when it is nearly dead? Just picture a battleship that's at 5% health. Half the ship is on fire, most of the turrets are out of action, and the ship is listing badly to one side. Should it be attacking at 100% strength, just because it's a one-figure unit? The number of figurines should be entirely secondary.

Besides, you know what's WORSE?

Picture a unit of 10 mans where 8 of them have died, leaving the unit with 2 mans. I cast heal on this unit and...6 of the mans come back to life, even though they're lying dead on the field from some other battle! How does that work? Have the remaining 2 mans been hauling their corpses around with them the entire time? With absolutely no movement penalty?

 

[DraQ]

Is simulating near-future tech space warships down to individual penetrations of individual armour layers, spallation, projectiles ricocheting inside the hull, and subsystem damage down to and including reaction from escaping propellant from burst tankage autistic enough for you guys?
Oh, have I mentioned you can design your own ships, your own parts and that most game mechanics is just physics with plugged in material science?

This ship took some heavy damage (from nuclear strike, in fact), but is still operational (partly because I fucking designed it), albeit barely, largely hollowed out and incandescent.

Damaged subsystems, multiple radiators and turrets missing, hull pocked with hypervelocity impact bullet holes - and this is the winning party (see below)

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

which approach is the best?

All of them are valid.

Easy to say when you left out the obviously greatest option.

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

Animated little guys (who are actually giants when you consider the map scale) are a scourge of strategy games visual presentation. They should go back to and stay in the tactical games which is their natural habitat.

 

[Lagi]

I was not realized, that self-styling me as autistic was an understatement.

... Why does ANY unit attack at 100% strength when it is nearly dead?..

I completely agree. With receiving damage should come deteriorating fighting capabilities. Otherwise HP bloat feel as strange layer to be peel off before you can one-shot kill enemy. Welcome system where each hit directly hinder victim (otherwise its not "hit").
C-evo has the feature of unit Strength being scaled with current HP [ 23%HP = 23% Str].

Besides, you know what's WORSE?

Picture a unit of 10 mans where 8 of them have died, leaving the unit with 2 mans. I cast heal on this unit and...6 of the mans come back to life, even though they're lying dead on the field from some other battle! How does that work? Have the remaining 2 mans been hauling their corpses around with them the entire time? With absolutely no movement penalty?

I feel you.
Its a little like chuging red potions to restore one condition to 100%. Player dont know how lame it is, untill their foe dont use this hoax (whaaat? i spend hours to reduce his HP, and now his full?! [rage-quit]). I also experience it in Battle of Wesnoth when enemy player level up their troops (they also become fully healed).

.. autistic enough for you guys?

too much.

Animated little guys (who are actually giants when you consider the map scale) are a scourge of strategy games visual presentation...

. After my initial fascination of ASCI roguelikes, i want simple GRP to quickly imagine what is what (without reading wall of text for each unit).
War in the East flood of counters with single value (CV). I guess asking if there is QoL of moving multiple token at once, would be a blunder. I was playing Operational art of War, but its probably childsplay compare to it.

i underestimate spergs powers;

why even make effort to draw GRP, just put floating name in box and that's it.

 

[what am i doing]

3D modeled units and projectile simulation for hit detection, SupCom/TA style.

 

[Norfleet]

if a car receive damage in RL, you dont know it because some HP bar decrease, but because there is visual dent in the hood.

Which have no effect whatsoever on its performance, until it receives the 515th dent, whereupon it blows up like it's in a Michael Bay movie.

 

[whydoibother]

I think the older Civilization games had that, where your Scout for example is 3 dudes with sticks, and as they fight a wolf one of them dies, so they are now 2 dudes with sticks, until they heal up.
And there is a mod for Civilization V and Civilization VI that makes the units seem more numerous and individually smaller on the map, though I can't recall if they display casualties properly.
I do enjoy it, obviously there is no "immersion" here, you aren't immersed in being an invisible divine hand moving empires through an acelerated history if mankind, but it does tell a better story and it does portray scale better.

 

[Elephantman]