Review RPG Codex Review: Dead State

[Zombra]

Have they said anything about a balance patch? Are there difficulty levels?

No difficulty levels and no word about a balance patch that I'm aware of. I haven't been on their forums at all lately, but last time I was there I remember seeing a thread title something like How to Rebalance Dead State, so I'm sure they're at least marginally aware it's an issue. Hoping they'll see the review

In my opinion there kind of has to be a balance patch coming eventually, because it will make such a huge difference to the game's legacy. And really not much needs to be done, just number tweaking. Of course there are some systemic and scripting bugs still to be addressed too, so maybe balance isn't priority 1 yet, but I think (hope) it's inevitable.

Looking forward to see your thoughts on balancing.

Thanks, my notes are at home, will post tonight.

 

[tuluse]

Variable AP systems are extremely ftl. Unlike Dead State, Dragonfall and even DMS don't have a reverse difficulty curve and have far more combat actions from which to choose.

Though SR probably would ultimately be better if it either moved to a move-and-action or a static AP system.

Reverse difficulty curve is more due to content then system, no?

Also, with Shadowrun do you mean not gaining the 3rd AP at someone point in the game or not having any abilities to get more AP or both?

 

[Western]

I felt the review was pretty fair, I couldn't get over the midgame slump and balancing issues personally. Also I think the combat is a bit lacklustre. To make it more entertaining all they needed was to copy some mechanics from AOD, basically being able to target body parts coupled with some gratuitous Fallout style animations would have gone a long way, making zombies more resistant to damage except via head shots/attacks and making them (particularly being swarmed by them, that should be a huge risk even in great armour) and infection more of a risk might have helped as well.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Fantastically ambitious game - sadly too ambitious to be pulled off in a complete fashion by such a small studio. Should note that almost all the quest bugs arise from the game being open world, story driven but with events progressing with in game time instead of player advancement. It would take a massive project to implement enough soft content gates to prevent all players from stumbling across certain areas 'too early' or to give full feedback for player actions (expect some quests to get muddled because you took out the 'miniboss and his goons' before they rock up at the shelter gates and give you a reason to go to war against them), given how big the game is.

Review doesn't do justice to how complex the 'inter-NPC mechanics' can become later in the game. One particular combination of events can lead to three quite useful shelter members being murdered by another NPC in one spree. A genuine flawed gem.

 

[Zombra]

Went ahead and posted my rebalance thoughts in a separate thread. Enjoy.

 

[agris]

Thanks for the write-up Zombra. I'm a supporter and your review plus the megathread have convinced me that I'm going to wait for a balance / difficulty patch before properly playing. The 7 days whet my whistle, I don't want my excitement deadened by an overly easy game.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Prepare for a merge.

Anyway, weren't they originally planning on all zombie bites to have a chance of infection? What if they did THAT?

 

[Zombra]

Prepare for a merge.

I could live with that. I just liked the idea of the Plan being the first post in a thread to make it easier for the devs to find
But if that's not how it's done here, so be it.

Anyway, weren't they originally planning on all zombie bites to have a chance of infection? What if they did THAT?

I don't remember whether they were planning it, but that would be an excellent step towards fixing the game's problems. It would still be just one step, though.

Review doesn't do justice to how complex the 'inter-NPC mechanics' can become later in the game. One particular combination of events can lead to three quite useful shelter members being murdered by another NPC in one spree.

That sounds awesome. Wish I'd seen it. Maybe in a replay in a few years

 

[oscar]

Worst PC portraits of any RPG I've ever played (not portraits on the whole as NPC ones are fine).

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Just dropped $100 on the Underworld KS, and my wife might pull a Lysistrata if I spend any more money on computer games this month, but this review has convinced me to pick up Dead State in the near future. I'm sad to hear that the game is so easy, hopefully Brian and Annie (or some enterprising modder) will rectify this in short order; nothing kills my enthusiasm for a game like realizing I'm just 'going through the motions'.
Regardless: Many s to Zombra for the concise, well-written, and easy-to-read review.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Review sounds suspiciously a lot like 'well uhm yes this is kind of generic/bad/mediocre with some glints of good stuff but but but but but BUT I LIKED IT ANYWAY GOT A PROBLEM?' which doesn't make me too confident about the game's quality, particularly when also combined with the constant stream of info I was getting from a bro who played the game, and whose impressions were mostly completely opposite regarding almost everything.

Glad that I never picked this up.

 

[Grunker]

Review sounds suspiciously a lot like 'well uhm yes this is kind of generic/bad/mediocre with some glints of good stuff but but but but but BUT I LIKED IT ANYWAY GOT A PROBLEM?'

Sounds like your Shadowrun review

 

[Zombra]

Review sounds suspiciously a lot like 'well uhm yes this is kind of generic/bad/mediocre with some glints of good stuff but but but but but BUT I LIKED IT ANYWAY GOT A PROBLEM?' which doesn't make me too confident about the game's quality

You don't have to be suspicious - with a few small corrections, you pretty much got the message. Instead of bad/mediocre with glints of good, I'd say it's a good game smothered by some serious flaws, which I hope I was clear about. (And I definitely would not describe the game as "generic".) I didn't intend people to run out and buy it thinking it's a dazzling, polished experience. So nurture those doubts! On the other hand, for people who are willing to overlook the flaws to check out the structure and the story ... in other words, those who want to "like it anyway" ... it's worth the $ and time.

... particularly when also combined with the constant stream of info I was getting from a bro who played the game, and whose impressions were mostly completely opposite regarding almost everything.

Huh! I'd be curious to hear about that.

Glad that I never picked this up.

Yep, seems like a bad fit for now. Check back in a year though to see if DB or maybe modders have fixed the balance. I'm serious about the foundation being sound.

 

[lightbane]

I played the demo and I agree with your thoughts, it's a rough gem that needs to be polished, hence why I'll wait for a while until there's a price reduction and/or more patches before buying it. By the way, some comments from my playtrough:

-There IS an iron-man/survival mode according to the manual, but I didn't try it how it works.
-The interaction with some npcs is weird: There are "neutral" characters who are supposed to be non-hostile and make you feel bad if you attack them for their stuff, but in my experience they're a wasted opportunity, since they'll shoot you the moment you get too close (even if you couldn't spot them right until you stumble upon their faces, triggering their hostility thanks to the fog of war limiting your sight) and there's no interaction possible with them except to introduce them to your sledgehammer/your weapon of choice (I was looking forward to engaging into some sort of rudimentary barter system ala Fallout, but no luck here), then the game punishes you for doing the "morally wrong" thing (even if they attacked you first!).
-Bleeding and Poisoned weapons don't seem to be too useful, apparently everyone in Dead State world is some kind of mutant with regeneration powers, which ensures that open wounds close themselves after some time (aka 2/3 turns or whenever combat ends, whatever happens first), which is again a waste of an opportunity.
-There should be some way to distinguish between containers/chests/whatever which have been already looted and those which haven't, this option would speed up gameplay a lot.

In any case, I found the game interesting, but for now I'll wait until there are more patches/it has a better price before getting it.

 

[Lhynn]

Decent review, good info in it, i just wish it was more engaging, i felt like just jumping to the conclusion after the first paragraph.
All in all good job.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

This is such a shitty, overly apologetic review.

Just came here to say this.

 

[Zombra]

-There IS an iron-man/survival mode according to the manual, but I didn't try it how it works.

Yeah, I've seen posts around saying "When is hardcore mode going to be done?" so I think that's not enabled yet. I guess it's possible that it's right there in Options and I never saw it

-The interaction with some npcs is weird: There are "neutral" characters who are supposed to be non-hostile and make you feel bad if you attack them for their stuff, but in my experience they're a wasted opportunity, since they'll shoot you the moment you get too close and there's no interaction possible with them except to introduce them to your sledgehammer/your weapon of choice (I was looking forward to engaging into some sort of rudimentary barter system ala Fallout, but no luck here), then the game punishes you for doing the "morally wrong" thing (even if they attacked you first!).

That's intentional, and I like those parts. Not everyone wants to strike up a conversation with you, and those characters do generally yell at you to "back off" or whatnot. If you decide to go barging into their house anyway, is it really their fault if a fight starts? It's interesting when the best option for an encounter is to simply avoid it.

-There should be some way to distinguish between containers/chests/whatever which have been already looted and those which haven't, this option would speed up gameplay a lot.

I would love that too. I think the little loot indicator should just disappear once a container is empty. I almost mentioned that in the review but eh, small potatoes.

Decent review, good info in it, i just wish it was more engaging, i felt like just jumping to the conclusion after the first paragraph.

Yeah, it was a little dry, but informative I hope. Mostly I tried to keep it clearly paragraphed out and to the point. After I wrote it I read one of Vault Dweller's wacky reviews filled with lies and was like, whoa. Bearing something like that in mind as an option, not sure what approach I'd take if I ever did another one.

 

[StaticSpine]

Zombra Cheers

 

[Infinitron]

Zombra Your approach to writing the review was fine. That particular "Vault Dweller approach" is best saved for mocking bloated AAA type stuff.

 

[naossano]

They should really have to put difficulty setting.
And tell the people that can't win because they took a too hard difficulty setting to stop whining about it.
(i wouldn't pick it at first attempt)

 

[Absinthe]

Wow there is some serious dicksucking going on in this review. of editorial standards.

UI: When you have to list "does the job" as some kind of plus and say "once you get used to crap, it doesn't seem so painful anymore" but in nicer words, you are producing some serious manure. The fact that there is a manual does not excuse the character generation screen from being uninformative trash either. UI is fucking lousy, admit it.

RPG Elements: Eh, by your own account you were stomping dudes without consideration in combat, maxing almost all your skills and everything, and navigating all the challenges and crises with minimal morale losses or antagonism. At that stage it doesn't sound like there's a lot of decision-making going into character builds.

Graphics and Sounds: "Not AAA but surprisingly good." Go fuck yourself. You mean "hovering on the decent side of mediocre, but lower your standards a lot (it's an indie!) and this seems great." There is no fucking reason to say that shit other than desperately trying to like Dead State. Say it's functional and move the fuck on.

Combat: "Well-designed. Too easy."

You mean "shit" right? Because that's what "too easy" sounds like to me. You also mentioned the lack of tactical options to intentionally make noise and draw attention.

Non-Combat Gameplay: You mean, it is fucking trivial, like the rest of the game, because you get all the shit you want too easily.

Pacing: Dull it is.

Writing, Story, Atmosphere: I can't see how this ranges from "fair to excellent" given the purportedly mediocre writing at start and the distinct lack of danger ruining the atmosphere of a zombie survival game.

Technical: "Everyone who says it's a buggy mess is full of shit. It only has a bunch of gamebreaking bugs, a bunch more scripting errors breaking some quests and other shit, animation glitches, and the like." Are you high? That sounds like a "buggy mess" to me.

Balance: Agreed. It sucks.

Bottom line: "Should you buy it? I want to say yes to immediately put money in DoubleBear's coffers." That certainly sums up your motivations in this review.

This is such a shitty, overly apologetic review.

Perfect first response to my first official Codex content!

Just because we talk shit doesn't mean it's cool to be shit. We talk shit because we give our unvarnished opinion, not because that's what the cool kids do.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Huh, I wasn't aware it was a competition. My bad.

What makes Banner Saga's better designed? I never played it because it seemed pretty dull. Blackguards' "complex and obtuse" doesn't sound better at all; nor does D:OS' "complex and unbalanced" sound better than DS' "simple and unbalanced". It sounds like you like complexity for the sake of complexity - in that case, when you read that my review says DS is less complex, you should be able to take away the information that you might not like it as well as something more complex. So ... thanks for reading.

Infinitron at least change the thread title to Zombra reviews dead state.

 

[Roguey]

Reverse difficulty curve is more due to content then system, no?

There's a lot of push/pull here. As Josh would say, it's much harder to balance high-level content because of all the possible character permutations, in which case addressing problems with the system is the path of least resistance unless you're fine with a lot of bad/suboptimal builds/players getting brickwalled.

Also, with Shadowrun do you mean not gaining the 3rd AP at someone point in the game or not having any abilities to get more AP or both?

Both. D&D-style move-and-action (minus anything that allows you to have more actions in any given turn) or Underrail/other-games-I'm-sure-style fixed action points would both make balancing easier.

 

[Lurker King]

Good review, Zombra. Double Bear and Iron Tower Studio should be praised to heavens. They accomplished a lot for a meager budget of 300 thou and change. You should have mentioned that there is a lot of falloutish moments in writing and opportunities to behave like a completely asshole in dialogues. Dead State really shines in this part.


Some criticism

Zones packed with zombies + turn-based combat = infinite boredom. The zombies should be more challenging (as you mentioned) but also fast. Zombies should be able to run.

The survivors at the shelter are always frozen, like statues. Even if you assign someone to a specific job, like farming, you will not see a NPC working at the rooftop garden or the greenhouse. The same applies to zombies, that are always frozen. Some players complained about this, but I bet that this due to a limitation of the engine, Torque. I know this because one location of AoD has the same problem. I thought that Unity was an alternative, but I already heard some comments about cities in PoE being too empty. If all modern game engines are like this, we are in trouble. This needs to be reconsidered. In this department, the Infinite Engine still looks great in comparison.

 

[Infinitron]

I wish we hadn't already added Dead State to our Steam curator so I could do it now and cause even more butthurt