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- Jan 28, 2011
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Hmm, I didn't know established publishers needed "+ arguments" to have access to Steam. Then again, they forced dtp to use Greenlight so who knows how this stuff works.
Well there are no ethics when it comes to Kickstarter. They allow people to scam backers, and they have no power after the money is transferred to do anything anyways. They themselves break their own rule against supporting and endorsing other Kickstarters. They get a percentage of every Kickstarter so they are actually complicit in those scams by keeping them up after they are reported. Kickstarter is a joke.Chill, bro.I wrote a long ass reply but it got deleted. I'll have to illustrate its content instead:
The way I see it, this discussion is mostly about KS. Or the ethics of KS, to be more specific. The game in question serves merely as a specific example illustrating some issues, and nobody is getting worked up over it.
Homo homini lupus. Sigh.
I'd second that.Actually wolves are a lot more 'humane'(oh the irony) to each other.
Is multiplayer a '+ argument'?As said before: It's not needed. But it helps to bring games on such platforms cause it is a + argument.
Yep.This seems a bit dubious to me. I've seen plenty of games that were released "ahead of time" on GOG and other distributors while they wait to be authorized on Steam.
More like, it's not like Valve cares that much. A game like Skyrim, I'd understand. It's gonna be selling like hotcakes, so why miss on all that excitement. An indie game? I doubt they give a damn especially if the argument that they account for 80-90% sales anyway.It's not like Valve can't afford to be magnanimous.
Most definitely.Is multiplayer a '+ argument'?As said before: It's not needed. But it helps to bring games on such platforms cause it is a + argument.
CrashOberbreit can you please answer some question?
This is the second Kickstarter published by bitComposer, is this a strategy of the company?
Do bitComposer have signed other deals with other projects?
If yes, can you name them?
Can you confirm that the implementation of the multi-player in Expeditions:Conquistador is not due to the deal signed with bitComposer?
Not really. SP, MP. Doesn't matter that much.Is multiplayer a '+ argument'?As said before: It's not needed. But it helps to bring games on such platforms cause it is a + argument.
That's not a problem. That's arrogant plebs trying to bite off more they can chew.the problem is kcikstarter is not really viable if you dont have a brian fargo or sawyer on board , they probably needed a lot more than the 80k, but theres no way they could have honestly asked it and received it .
Well, some people can do awesome stuff with so little money. But that'd need to be allround-multi-talents. However you are still right.What kind of game can you make on a 25-50k budget and how are you going to "get noticed from that". If you can make a decent game on 25k it means that you can make it without 25k (i.e. you have a full time job and work on the game part-time and 25k, minus expenses, won't help you switch to full time work and get more people).
A place where you get anywhere from 50,000 to 4+ mil is not a joke, but it needs proper rules, accountability, and monitoring.Well there are no ethics when it comes to Kickstarter. They allow people to scam backers, and they have no power after the money is transferred to do anything anyways. They themselves break their own rule against supporting and endorsing other Kickstarters. They get a percentage of every Kickstarter so they are actually complicit in those scams by keeping them up after they are reported. Kickstarter is a joke.Chill, bro.I wrote a long ass reply but it got deleted. I'll have to illustrate its content instead:
The way I see it, this discussion is mostly about KS. Or the ethics of KS, to be more specific. The game in question serves merely as a specific example illustrating some issues, and nobody is getting worked up over it.
That's not a problem. That's arrogant plebs trying to bite off more they can chew.the problem is kcikstarter is not really viable if you dont have a brian fargo or sawyer on board , they probably needed a lot more than the 80k, but theres no way they could have honestly asked it and received it .
You can't get more than 80k? Then make a smaller product that costs less than 80k. Make money from that. Get noticed from that. Use newly acquired funds and publicity to create a more ambitious game. Rinse. Repeat.
I have no recollections of such a wondrous event. I do recall people complaining about the graphics (business as usual), difficulty, and calling it vaporware....not so long ago VD was called a demi god for making age of decadence...
It's hard to do a full featured game in your free time. With little money it's hard too but easier of course. But what people often do realize that if someone is asking 50k at Kickstarter, it doesn't mean that this 50k is all that will be invested into the game. As I said before, we invested much more into our game before coming to KS and asking for 50k. And now we are putting more again. Our original estimates were pretty accurate in terms of art that needed to be done, but we were really bad estimating the length of development, and that's what is the bulk of the budget. We are somewhat lucky that the costs of development are not so high here. I bet it's tougher for both Giana guys and Logic Artists.Well, some people can do awesome stuff with so little money. But that'd need to be allround-multi-talents. However you are still right.
Yup, my sentiment exactly! For non-US teams it seems even harder.I don't see any problem with only established stars can raise 1 million+ potato on KS. But I do wish it was easier for relative unknowns to get say, 100-200K. That's enough to keep a frugal team working for a year, and make a small game to build their skills and reputation.
No , its true, i am blessed with an exceptional memory , i ve read some comments like this "VD will achieve codex demigod status with age of decadence" some time ago before the combat demo even , now i cant find you the exact posts, must be somewhere between the complaints, it will take too much time.I have no recollections of such a wondrous event. I do recall people complaining about the graphics (business as usual), difficulty, and calling it vaporware....not so long ago VD was called a demi god for making age of decadence...
Well well. Sometimes not so much is needed cause just a special amount of money is needed finalize a game which already has investors (which I see quite often on KS these days. Please note that investors are not necessarily Publishers).I don't see any problem with only established stars can raise 1 million+ potato on KS. But I do wish it was easier for relative unknowns to get say, 100-200K. That's enough to keep a frugal team working for a year, and make a small game to build their skills and reputation.
I wasn't aware that KotC was an iphone or mobile app.So you want them to slave on iphone and mobile apps, till they get enough money to fund a game catering to your needs ?
Did VD ask for 80k? Did he even ask for any money? When AoD ran into problems did they need to run to someone else?VD was called a demi god for making age of decadence.
No. Fuck off. Everybody deserves the same amount of respect, no more, no less.you should be a bit nicer with the few developpers posting here
Let's talk about solutions, not problems. Yes, Kickstarter is not ideal. But what would you do instead? Take money back when projects miss their deadline? Yes, there are some delays and it seems they are almost inevitable in game development (Giana Sisters seems to be the only project so far that came out at a promised date), and there are just a few true failures like Haunts - that's very sorry it happened to them, but Rick is doing what he can and offers refunds which is nice.A place where you get anywhere from 50,000 to 4+ mil is not a joke, but it needs proper rules, accountability, and monitoring.
That's another main issue with KS. It gives money to people without any strings attached andhopes for the bestdon't really give a fuck after they take their cut. No bank would ever do that without reviewing a business plan first. You can't get 250k (sui generis) by saying "I'm gonna make a game and it's gonna be awesome, you'll see!", which isn't necessary a bad thing.
When the KS model cut the publisher out of equation, they cut not only the middle man but the business mode and didn't replace it with anything.