RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

IHaveHugeNick · May 5, 2018

I mean, the fact that Chris wrote too much game is basically common knowledge at this point, no?

The dispute seems to be rather on whether rest of Obsidian should bend over backwards to support their superstar writer, and whether Chris could expect to have special treatment and still get to complain about management playing favorites at the same time. You can't have it both ways.

Then there's the fact that - I would argue - all PoE1 companions felt rather undercooked. And the root cause of most problems with the entire game were ridiculously optimistic and over-scoped stretch goals that they had no choice but to implement whether they fit the game or not. So a case certainly can be made that Sawyer and Brenecke fucked up the campaign and left not enough room to companions.

I mean, on launch you could certainly drop some classes entirely and nothing of value would be lost, and then the entire act 3 is just half-assed beyond belief. So maybe what the game needed were full fledged Avellonian companions and cuts made elsewhere instead.

Crescent Hawk · May 5, 2018

Wait a sec Chris posted here? FUCIGN HELL Do more lets plays you wonderful bastard, hopefully nothing life shattering out of date like Arcanum. All the best man stay strong.

Roguey · May 5, 2018

IHaveHugeNick said:
The dispute seems to be rather on whether rest of Obsidian should bend over backwards to support their superstar writer, and whether Chris could expect to have special treatment and still get to complain about management playing favorites at the same time. You can't have it both ways.

The former is mostly coming from the fans. He keeps saying over and over again that he doesn't mind cuts, he just wants them done via a clear, orderly process early on.

Ninjerk · May 5, 2018

IHaveHugeNick said:
I mean, the fact that Chris wrote too much game is basically common knowledge at this point, no?

The dispute seems to be rather on whether rest of Obsidian should bend over backwards to support their superstar writer, and whether Chris could expect to have special treatment and still get to complain about management playing favorites at the same time. You can't have it both ways.

Then there's the fact that - I would argue - all PoE1 companions felt rather undercooked. And the root cause of most problems with the entire game were ridiculously optimistic and over-scoped stretch goals that they had no choice but to implement whether they fit the game or not. So a case certainly can be made that Sawyer and Brenecke fucked up the campaign and left not enough room to companions.

I mean, on launch you could certainly drop some classes entirely and nothing of value would be lost, and then the entire act 3 is just half-assed beyond belief. So maybe what the game needed were full fledged Avellonian companions and cuts made elsewhere instead.

Imagine launching with Aloth, GM, Kahunamatata or whatever his name was (but better developed and less annoying), and Durance and then gradually releasing better companions with some of the balancing patches.

Crescent Hawk · May 5, 2018

I just went and saw all the buzz. Its not really surprising. The rot was evident for some time now.

Fairfax · May 5, 2018

IHaveHugeNick said:
And the root cause of most problems with the entire game were ridiculously optimistic and over-scoped stretch goals that they had no choice but to implement whether they fit the game or not. So a case certainly can be made that Sawyer and Brenecke fucked up the campaign and left not enough room to companions.

A good part of the overscoping didn't come from stretch goals:

Early in preproduction, Sawyer stood his ground on big decisions; most significantly, the size of the game. The old Infinity Engine games, which the team had been playing during spare afternoons for inspiration, had worlds that were divided into individual map screens, each full of objects and encounters. The largest of these games, Baldur’s Gate 2, had nearly two hundred unique maps. To plan Project Eternity’s scope, Sawyer and Brennecke would need to figure out how many maps the game would have. Brennecke had settled on 120, but Sawyer disagreed. He wanted 150. And Sawyer wouldn’t relent, even though they all knew it would cost more money. “The way I view the relationship between production and direction is there intentionally should be a little bit of antagonism,” Sawyer said. “Not hostility—but the director at some level is saying, ‘I want to do this, I’m writing this check.’ Production holds the checkbook.”

Blaine · May 5, 2018

The vast majority of people don't pay attention to what's actually going on with the development of these games. For example, the current Deadfire megathread was full of people exclaiming their astonishment at the inclusion of a talking sword in the game.

It was right there in the fucking Fig campaign stretch goals:

IHaveHugeNick · May 5, 2018

Roguey said:
. He keeps saying over and over again that he doesn't mind cuts

Yeah, and my high school sweetheart didn't mind that I was drunk at the prom. She kept saying this over and over and over again, every day for a year, so clearly that's what was happening.

Fenix · May 5, 2018

Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd said:
Chris Avellone is/was Sawyer one of the bad guys @ Obsidian? Just ignore this question, if the answer is yes.

I was told you are the twink of Chris Avellone :deathclaw:

Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd · May 5, 2018

Leman said:
I don't think we'll ever going to see a substantial criticism of Sawyer from Chris. Let me explain.

Sawyer is like a cat. He's a slightly moody and memetic creature, sort of amicable, if not always readily approachable which guarantees that he stays out of politics that could otherwise endanger prospects of him satisfying his feline urges. It follows that as a cat, he can do what he wants most of the time and people grew to accept his fluffy eccentricities. It can be also implied that his circumstance warrants he has a different set of definitions for phenomena such as fun and rewards. Just think about it; for a cat, walking from one side of the room to the other while musing on a fly it slaughtered the other day would be a perfectly fun and rewarding experience, however dull it would be to an average specimen of genus homo. Cat really is a romantic creature, and so is Sawyer. I think Chris realizes that better than almost anyone here because he has actually seen Sawyer's true form–his nature. He knows that criticizing Joshua Sawyer would be practically pointless, as criticism is beyond a cat's interest, or even understanding. Besides, who really wants to punish a cat that just goes about doing cat things? That would be heartless.

Crescent Hawk · May 5, 2018

The saddest thing is that after the glory years of Torment and a little bit later, we got 10 years of the worst time for pc development, and consoles ruled from a dark throne( until they got more memory). We kinda got robbed of you Chris. We need you in more games if you actually can.

Torment was big for me, actually shaped a lot of the stuff I read, and did, got me interested in D&D, later into Mythology\Theology and juicier personal stuff even later. Felt I needed to say this. Godspeed man.

Fenix · May 5, 2018

Also I remembered some curious thing.
I remember I though somewhere - probably in magazine - someone was intended to do adventure\quest game in PS:T setting, in Sigile.
At least intended to do it, I think never did.
Anybody knows anything about it?
Saw it probably in early 2000, maybe in some Russian game magazine.

Fairfax · May 5, 2018

Fenix said:
Also I remembered some curious thing.
I remember I though somewhere - probably in magazine - someone was intended to do adventure\quest game in PS:T setting, in Sigile.
At least intended to do it, I think never did.
Anybody knows anything about it?
Saw it probably in early 2000, maybe in some Russian game magazine.

Interplay had exclusive rights to Planescape games at the time, so if that game used the IP, it had to be one of the two cancelled Planescape projects:

Planescape PS1, led by Colin McComb, was supposed to be similar to King's Field, but didn't get very far. It was conceived and cancelled in a matter of months in 96.
Planescape PC, led by Zeb Cook, which entered development in 96. Not much is known about the initial concept, but the project became Stonekeep 2: Godmaker, and was only cancelled in 2001.

Stonekeep 2 is the most likely candidate, but the game never had marketing material or details shared. All we have is the cover art by Vance Kovacs, who also worked on Fallout 2 and Icewind Dale:

Latro · May 5, 2018

Fairfax said:
Planescape PS1, led by Colin McComb, was supposed to be similar to King's Field, but didn't get very far. It was conceived and cancelled in a matter of months in 96.

Now that's a spicy game idea. 1st person dungeon crawler through the planes.

Crescent Hawk · May 5, 2018

That Stonekeep 2 cover is beautiful. That reminds me why I love rpgs.

Fenix · May 5, 2018

Eh... not exactly. I remeber it was quest - that's how I called then adventures, and it was in 3D maybe.
Maybe its name included word "Chapters" or something liek that. Maybe it was non-profit project and was a mod first.
I saw it definitely AFTER PS:T, but not far after - like 2000-2002 or something like that.

Bester · May 5, 2018

This is going to the IRS today:

Enkidu · May 5, 2018

I'm here only to help the bingo.
Yo Chris, fan of your work, do what you like and we will probably end up supporting you. (after criticizing your game for not being the savior of rpgs).

fobia · May 5, 2018

Well... aren't you a special little guy!

Zed Duke of Banville · May 5, 2018

Posting on page 100 of an epic thread.

Prime Junta · May 5, 2018

Roguey said:
It seemed to me that he didn't dispute that

That's my impression as well. But then it took him years to dispute the assumption that he was under NDA. So I asked.

I think the potentially more interesting answer would be to the second part of the question. I'm genuinely curious how a writer with as much experience as MCA would not stick to a word count. That's fairly basic craftsmanship. Was everybody else exceeding their word counts to equal measure and he wanted in on the action? Was he too high to give a shit? Did he want to punish the narrative lead? The people have a right to know.