RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Wilian]

Jesus Christ, after spending two nights thru' to get up to date, thinking it's finally over here we go again

 

[Cael]

Meanwhile Obsidian's thread started pretty tame and degenerated into retarded dumbfuckery.

(Sounds like a trustworthy fella. What a galah!)

Aussie detected!

 

[Ezeekiel]

So... With all that amazing hate and whatnot... What keeps you here?

I'm guessing your joking in general, but in case you're not, come on you drama queen
I promise you that I value your Battle Tech knowledge and agree with many of your criticisms of that low-effort BT game and how the devs treated the setting like crap etc.
And with me on your side, what else could you possibly need, eh?

You make my case for me. It is pretty ironic to see people fall into the same trap as sjws.

Let me explain it simply: Just because I (or anyone else) criticise something that you hold dear (or you, for that matter), it doesn't automatically follow that I hate it or am against it.

Using you as an example: I don't hate you. That would be a moronic thing to do because you haven't done anything to warrant the hate. However, I am pointing out where there is unconscious hypocrisy on your part. What you have just said is no different to a sjw telling a person to go home to his own country because that person did not agree with said sjw. "We are all tolerant here, but get the fuck out because you don't agree that this is so."

We ALL have shades of this. There is really no point denying it. It is a matter what triggers that intolerance and whether we have the self-control to censor it before it gets out. That is what politeness and civilised discourse is all about, at the end of the day. It is not about thinking in tolerant terms. It is stopping the intolerance before it gets past the vocal cords.

The "what keeps you here?" was a question, not a "go home" kind of remark.
I asked it because the poster I was originally responding to (which drew you into this particular convo) was making predictions about free speech adherence turning this place too mean for people to stay. You disagreed with my response to that and thus the question.

My initial statement which you first responded to: "This is easily one of the least one-sided places on the net. That bothers some but draws others, and not just the nazis you're so worried about."

My claim was about this not being a one-sided place, not that nobody would disagree with you or tolerance or anything (disagreeing is intolerance? What?) or that there were no cliques or some such.

Not all opinions on all topics are equally represented, but again, that's still a huge improvement over most other forums that got touched by the culture war.

 

[Darth Roxor]

i disagree with all you idiots

 

[Cael]

The "what keeps you here?" was a question, not a "go home" kind of remark.
My initial statement: "This is easily one of the least one-sided places on the net. That bothers some but draws others, and not just the nazis you're so worried about." was made to another poster, and that's what you initially responded to.
My claim was about this not being a one-sided place, not that nobody would disagree with you or tolerance or anything (disagreeing is intolerance? What?) or that there were no cliques or some such.
Not all opinions on all topics are equally represented, but again, that's still a huge improvement over most other forums that got touched by the culture war.

And my reply was basically a caution to say that it is not all roses and singing birds over here either, so let's not wax too lyrical about it. The Codex could do with a bit of improvement.

Spoiler

Of course, it was also to illustrate the kind of parochial place this can be because you can safely lay money on the outrage and the screaming that would follow.

 

[Grunker]

Of course this place is intolerant, Cael. You’d have to be a complete moron to claim otherwise.

The difference is that this place’s intolerance comes without censorship.

 

[Ezeekiel]

If only he had something substantial to say about how the gameplay is.

Not many reviewers around who bother with gameplay details in the first place, unfortunately.

https://archive.is/C52Q3

He really is a very special human being

 

[Cael]

Of course this place is intolerant, Cael. You’d have to be a complete moron to claim otherwise.

The difference is that this place’s intolerance comes without censorship.

There has been... disputes about that :D

But let's not derail this more than it is. I was trolling a bit there as I was bored.

 

[lophiaspis]

Chris Avellone

The Illuminati numerology in your alleged birthdate makes me suspect you of being an MKULTRA sleeper agent.

How was your childhood, Chris? Do you ever have flashbacks or nightmares of sexually aggressive people in fursuits?

 

[Prime Junta]

And my reply was basically a caution to say that it is not all roses and singing birds over here either, so let's not wax too lyrical about it. The Codex could do with a bit of improvement.

Yeeaaah no.

The Codex is kind of like the "others" section. Most mainstream sites are extremely welcoming of all races, religions, orientations, identities, and what have you... as long as they accept a carefully-couched liberal mode of discourse and do not express any genuinely controversial opinions. That attracts middle-of-the-road middle-class liberals, you know the kind of people who vote Macron or Hillary and like it. Then there are your stormfronts, sluthates, revlefts and what have you, which are echo chambers for particular non-mainstream subcultures.

Codexian culture OTOH finds something all those non-mainstream subcultures have in common, namely, being hated on by the polite centre. This is not a welcoming place for that polite centre. You probably won't last long if you're one of the folks who believes that the word "nigger" must never be spelled out in full, regardless of context.

I do not think any world exists where the extremes and the centre can engage in polite. constructive discourse. So I don't know if it's possible for the Codex to "improve."

Spoiler

Other than by bringing in more Communists of course.

Spoiler

And posting news about Disco Elysium.

Spoiler

INFINITROOOOOON!

 

[just-browsing-news-drama]

@Chris Avellone
Thank you for your contribution to the genre. You might be not as revered here in Russia (probably due to the gamers having insufficient proficiency in English), but there are still RPG aficionados who have come to appreciate the quality of your work. I have often used Planescape: Torment (and Betrayal at Krondor) as examples of good writing in videogames.

As for my question: you have made it clear that Feargus often exercised his power to affect projects' direction and design decisions. My question is, how much did the market trends (be it reports on sales of similar projects, community/forum outbursts, "journalist" sentiment, and other forms of feedback from customers) affect the vision of Obisidian's games? As the company has grown to be so large, ensuring a sustainable margin (and avoiding layoffs) is bound to take priority over "design integrity" or "Avellone's vision". From your posts it appears that Feargus did not really elaborate on his decision-making, but catering to a larger audience has been commonly associated with the decline in the quality and innovativeness of RPGs - and gaming in general.

 

[Grunker]

Commie swine

 

[Ezeekiel]

But let's not derail this more than it is. I was trolling a bit there as I was bored.

I was wondering whether you were being entirely serious or not I admit.

 

[Cael]

And my reply was basically a caution to say that it is not all roses and singing birds over here either, so let's not wax too lyrical about it. The Codex could do with a bit of improvement.

Yeeaaah no.

The Codex is kind of like the "others" section. Most mainstream sites are extremely welcoming of all races, religions, orientations, identities, and what have you... as long as they accept a carefully-couched liberal mode of discourse and do not express any genuinely controversial opinions. That attracts middle-of-the-road middle-class liberals, you know the kind of people who vote Macron or Hillary and like it. Then there are your stormfronts, sluthates, revlefts and what have you, which are echo chambers for particular non-mainstream subcultures.

Codexian culture OTOH finds something all those non-mainstream subcultures have in common, namely, being hated on by the polite centre. This is not a welcoming place for that polite centre. You probably won't last long if you're one of the folks who believes that the word "nigger" must never be spelled out in full, regardless of context.

I do not think any world exists where the extremes and the centre can engage in polite. constructive discourse. So I don't know if it's possible for the Codex to "improve."

Spoiler

Other than by bringing in more Communists of course.

Spoiler

And posting news about Disco Elysium.

Spoiler

INFINITROOOOOON!

Listen, you soy boy wannabe. There is ALWAYS room for improvement! In the Codex case, there is nothing that cannot be improved with a... a... a 200-ton thermonuclear device!

 

[Edmund Spenser]

I made an account a few days ago and I think everything's fine here. It's not the Codex's job to cater to outsiders and make them feel special.

As an outsider I know I'm entering into a culture that I am not a part of and it's up to me to integrate. You know, like a considerate person.

 

[santino27]

I read that review - it wasn't flattering of the game on a number of fronts for sure.

Then again, RPS (and John in particular) tends to have shit taste in RPGs. And apparently a poor grasp on history.

I know you wrote some for D:OS2, Chris Avellone , but I wasn't a huge fan of the game as a whole, and all the typical sites (kotaku, rps, ign) using that as their sudden measuring stick for what makes a good rpg is driving me nuts.

 

[Ezeekiel]

I made an account a few days ago and I think everything's fine here. It's not the Codex's job to cater to outsiders and make them feel special.

As an outsider I know I'm entering into a culture that I am not a part of and it's up to me to integrate. You know, like a considerate person.

Which faction will you join? Nazis or Communists? Nihilists? Weaboos? Grognards? Wannabe-Journalists? Satanists? Or perhaps even Latro's prestigious VolCels?


Just kidding, you can just join all the factions and become king of all of them after an extensive and boring quest-line for each one.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

I was going to join the alt-right faction but I heard there wasn't enough content and I appreciate symmetrical options~

 

[Prime Junta]

Listen, you soy boy wannabe. There is ALWAYS room for improvement! In the Codex case, there is nothing that cannot be improved with a... a... a 200-ton thermonuclear device!

I am not a soy boy. I am a

Spoiler

Spoiler

God I've waited too long to be able to use that one.

 

[Ezeekiel]

I was going to join the alt-right faction but I heard there wasn't enough content and I appreciate symmetrical options~

I think that one is locked away behind the 1year-or-pay thing and no one quite takes them seriously. But you. You can change that! If you become their king, reform the entire bunch... You can turn 'em into a real faction!

But first you must watch 50 pro alt-right youtube videos to advance a rank. Have fun!

 

[J_C]

If only he had something substantial to say about how the gameplay is.

Not many reviewers around who bother with gameplay details in the first place, unfortunately.

https://archive.is/C52Q3

It's true, you have to get **muh experience** . Gaming is an experience now, so why bother with trivial things like gameplay.

 

[Blaine]

i disagree with all you idiots

 

[Cael]

Listen, you soy boy wannabe. There is ALWAYS room for improvement! In the Codex case, there is nothing that cannot be improved with a... a... a 200-ton thermonuclear device!

I am not a soy boy. I am a

Spoiler

Spoiler

God I've waited too long to be able to use that one.

That's what you are only a wannabe :D

 

[Prime Junta]

Remarkable. Just because someone was foolish enough into signing their own demise does not justify the actions of the perpetrator. On the contrary, it makes the acts of the perpetrator that much more heinous because being a "wiser" or more "cultured" party they still went on with the clearly unjust deal.

This is not a heavy-handed critic of the western civilization per se, but of the many evils of colonialism, which are undeniable. In fact, I would argue that the moral strength of the west was sapped by the evils then committed and the west still pays for it. Only and only through acknowledgement of the past evils can the west fix that guilt. But on the contrary, it still engages in those practices only under the hypocritical guise of social justice. Modern "social democrats" enjoy the enslaved labour of the Chinese and the Africans assuaging their pride with terms such as "Fair Trade" and "Organically made" food while sending them pity cheques that end up lining the pockets of corrupt governments and dictators that the west installs.

The Hellenic tragedy of this story is that colonialism did have its heroes that were a human ideal of endeavouring, exploring Argonauts. But their greatness was besmirched by their evil acts.

WTF does that have to do with anything? The reviewer is suggesting that it's bad to suggest that the colonised are complicit in colonialism. That's just stupid. They are, that's how colonialism works, right down to this day. How in the name of Mog do you get from that to "colonialism is good actually?"

 

[Calm]

Well.. that's basically two days of my life I'm never getting back - catching up on this from when I saw it last week.
Yet somehow worth it, even if it has compelled me to shed my treasured lurker status of the past half a decade.

Chris you have my support, and I can understand the soul destroying element of being trapped in a toxic situation. It might be a bit hubristic of someone much younger than you to say, but the solace in the inevitable suffering that we experience in life is that from it the potential to grow stronger and learn blossoms, (i.e. becoming bigger rather than allowing it to diminish us) which leaves us more capable to deal with the burdens.

By all indications of what you've said so far in this thread this is something you know and have done your best to do, so I commend you for it. The attempt to help others will truly be the most ethical thing from here, though from my own limited perspective am unsure on how that would be best accomplished.

Continue to attempt to speak the truth.







(Goddammit Codex this is the whole sort of thing that could only happen here.)